Re: How Disappointing- New Microwave Housing

by daisy mae Tue May 01, 2018 1:41 pm

Obviously from that, while buyers are buying new vans with their recurring faults, AS will not bother altering the faults, I didn`t say they were going under now, I was saying in years to come, if they don`t alter, obviously most of the British public will buy regardless. so nothing will change it will take more dissatisfied owners to say enough is enough. to stand up and be counted, so maybe they will not go under, that doesn`t say they do not deserve to, to be honest it has tainted my view of AS . I know I have not bought a new van, I will never do so, that is my choice as we all have choices, depends what your standards of expectations are.

Saying that I love this forum, and the friendly and helpful members, also my older van / soon vans , allthumbz

but not impressed with AS themselves. shrugg

I do try to help others as I have been helped. I have met three of the members, would like to meet a few more, but after this post, maybe no one will want to meet me. so_sad

My Very Best wishes,
Margaret

by AutoSleepy_Don Tue May 01, 2018 1:54 pm

I thought motorhomes is a cottage industry but I'm blown away at how much money they are making, and growing it year on year. They seem to be on the right path to keep going for the foreseeable future.
I tour round Europe and you don't see any AS (except other GB tourers), all their sales must be GB.

by Peter Brown Tue May 01, 2018 2:05 pm

AutoSleepy_Don wrote:all their sales must be GB.

A few LHD in Europe and small numbers in Thailand and New Zealand, but I guess 98% UK.

by Bulletguy Tue May 01, 2018 5:56 pm

Gromit wrote:Hi Bulletguy

While I entirely agree with the sentiment of your comments I think they have to be balanced against a realistic and pragmatic view.

By that I mean, No - of course things should not drop off, but humans are not robots and poorly paid ones will make mistakes and cut corners. It's the nature of the beast, and seems to be more so in recent years. Quality control can only be as good as the Quality Controllers, and they are human too . . . assuming they exist??

It may be that A/S find it cheaper to fix the problems, than to employ a team of inspectors to check every aspect of every finished van?? (And before you leap for the keyboard, I know I've just opened the door for another (possibly quite justified) rant! )

With reference to this, here is where the element of pragmatism comes in. For anything serious the van goes back to the dealer or to Willersey of course, but if a screw comes loose and it's a 100 mile round trip, what do you do? Do you throw a strop and go anyway, on principle, demanding a refund for your diesel etc., or do you get the screwdriver out?

I doubt if everybody is ever going to agree over this issue, but the main reason for getting a van in the first place is to enjoy using it - and sometimes, for some people, its best to take the easy way out and reach for the tool box.

Just my opinion of course, and the varifocals are not particularly rose coloured.

It's a good question because if any do exist they need sacking because they obviously aren't doing their job properly. A loose screw is one thing...a microwave about to launch itself on someones head is quite another!

Whilst motorhomes be they pvc or cb aren't built anywhere close to the number of cars it's worth considering this; Ford factory in Cologne, Germany, produce 1,400 cars every single day. Undoubtedly they do employ quality controllers. Now, whilst we read about the the odd customer with a 'bad experience', it's extremely rare and given the number produced, the 'bad experience' figure is miniscule yet with such a large production figure you'd expect it to be quite high. We can't compare prices as obviously the two vehicles serve very different purposes but we can compare, and question, quality control and build quality.

From personal experience i can tell you £50k+ Kinghams would never sell on the Swiss market because they won't ever accept 'second best' or 'questionable' workmanship. Everything has to be right and their insistence on it is part of their 'psyche'. It's virtually a national obsession! I know because i was once married to a Swiss!

by Bulletguy Tue May 01, 2018 6:00 pm

dbroada wrote:All the time people are willing to fix things themselves and not get them fixed under warranty, the bean counters never see the true extent of the problem, or at least their books never do. Of course, these are the same bean counters who have made warranty claims difficult and so owners will make minor repairs.

I agree entirely. A friend of mine bought a Kingham from new and i was staggered at the modifications he had to start doing to improve it. Oh and the bed got stuck after less than a month too!

by kaspian Tue May 01, 2018 6:28 pm

Looking again at the pictures of Kinghams' van and knowing how flimsy the microwave installation is, I wonder are completed A/s vans crash tested? I know Elddis made a large fuss over being type approved and whole vehicle crash tested with strengthened seat frames in the rear etc but are A/s in the same position?
Possibly 15-20kg of microwave sitting 3 feet behind the passengers head and held by a few small guage screws into 10mm mdf which we see can hardly hold its own weight?
20 years ago I had the misfortune to be hit head on by a lunatic who came round a blind corner at 60mph on my side of the narrow country road. We came to a halt within 5 feet.The impact moved the steel bulkhead of my van forward 18 inches trapping me behind the wheel . My electric drill chuck pierced a 2 inch hole in its metal storage case stored in the back of the van due to the severity of the impact. With that sort of impact I would expect the microwave to exit through the windscreen and be found a few dozen yards up the road.
Please note , I'm not trying to scare anyone but it is a genuine question. Are our vans crash tested once conversions are done or do they hide behind the donor vehicles crash tests pre conversion.??

by StewPotch Tue May 01, 2018 6:56 pm

I’ve always wondered why A/S build a van with a microwave ‘floating’ above the door, impeding possibly a great view?
When we looked at buying a van originally, that, and Kasp’s above point went a long way in putting us off the Kingham.

by Gromit Tue May 01, 2018 7:10 pm

I begin to wonder why some people buy Autosleepers at all if they think they are such a load of rubbish.

Does this forum really want, or need all this A/S bashing!

If some of you genuinely want to make a difference please contact someone in authority at A/S. They may be able to do something to improve matters, but ranting away on the forum achieves nothing other than to annoy members, and the Mods have to field the complaints!

by sylvester1954 Tue May 01, 2018 7:14 pm

My van is just on 3 years old this month and after checking the microwave fixing on a regular basis I now suspect that the whole machine is starting to move around, albeit slightly, on its slender mountings. The fear of the whole thing breaking free over our dreadfully uneven potholed roads and crashing down on the dog who is tethered in the potential drop zone has made me consider removing it all together.
Therefore can I ask how easy it to remove the electrical wiring please once I have unscrewed the already loose mountings?

by StewPotch Tue May 01, 2018 7:28 pm

Gromit wrote:If some of you genuinely want to make a difference please contact someone in authority at A/S. They may be able to do something to improve matters, but ranting away on the forum achieves nothing other than to annoy members, and the Mods have to field the complaints!

I tried. I tried the directors. I tried various levels of management. The directors never gave a toss and only ONE management level of staff bothered to talk to me over a serious gas leak.

shrugg

by kaspian Tue May 01, 2018 7:30 pm

No bashing on my part Dave but a genuine question. Does anyone know if A/s or any motorhome manufacturer for that matter have to submit vehicles post conversion for crash evaluation? Lets face it with a coachbuilt the base is a chassis cab which leaves a lot of scope for additions to be made.
In this case too, are completed vans submitted and crash tested by the authorities or do they rely on the base vehicle manufacturers testing which hardly bears any relation to the finished article ?
Genuine interesting questions put to a wide audience who might just have an expert in that field ....

by Paulmold Tue May 01, 2018 7:30 pm

Not wanting to prolong the AS bashing, has anyone with a van other than a Kingham had the problem of the microwave working loose? If this is just a Kingham problem, it may be easier to get AS to look at it rather than claiming it applies to all models.

by StewPotch Tue May 01, 2018 7:33 pm

Paul,

I have a Fairford and have no problems with it. Credit where credit is due and 100% to A/S on this point.

by StewPotch Tue May 01, 2018 7:37 pm

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by kaspian Tue May 01, 2018 7:40 pm

Yes Paul , known problem on Kemerton highlighted by others including charleyfarlie. If you look at the MMM review on youtube you can actually see the gap of shelf drooping behind the reviewers head on a new van under test! I have personally seen this on all 3 vans we viewed before buying ours including a Sussex eb .

by Paulmold Tue May 01, 2018 7:51 pm

Ok but let me ask a further question. Not knowing the layout of all van conversions, is it just ones that have a microwave that is suspended on its own and not fastened into adjoining cupboards?

by AutoSleepy_Don Tue May 01, 2018 7:52 pm

Is the Warwick Duo somehow immune from this problem?

The design is a little different from stewpotches 2016 van so maybe they have changed the design.
mine seems quite solid (at present).
How Disappointing- New Microwave Housing - Page 2 Img_2410

How Disappointing- New Microwave Housing - Page 2 Img_2410

by StewPotch Tue May 01, 2018 7:53 pm

Mine is secured either side and is as solid as the Rock of G.

by Paulmold Tue May 01, 2018 7:56 pm

My Sussex is a Warwick Duo in disguise and the microwave is joined to adjacent cupboards and appears solid also.

by AutoSleepy_Don Tue May 01, 2018 7:57 pm

So problem seen on Kinghams and Kemmertons. Obviously a problems with vans starting with a K.

by Peter Brown Tue May 01, 2018 8:02 pm

kaspian wrote:No bashing on my part Dave but a genuine question. Does anyone know if A/s or any motorhome manufacturer for that matter have to submit vehicles post conversion for crash evaluation? Lets face it with a coachbuilt the base is a chassis cab which leaves a lot of scope for additions to be made.
In this case too, are completed vans submitted and crash tested by the authorities or do they rely on the base vehicle manufacturers testing which hardly bears any relation to the finished article ?
Genuine interesting questions put to a wide audience who might just have an expert in that field ....

The vans are crashed to test among other things, passenger restraints. When additional passenger seats are added as part of the conversion, those sub assemblies have to be crash tested to gain type approval. I have in the past seen a sub assembly that had been so tested. The smaller converters who offer additional passenger seats as part of their conversion don't tell their customer that the installation has not been tested.

by kaspian Tue May 01, 2018 8:05 pm

From memory Paul our shelf is hanging from thin guage screws screwed upwards into thin mdf side panels . The weight of the microwave and road vibration leads to the screws rapidly losing grip and the shelf drops. Ours is in a line of cupboards so not like the Kingham. Perhaps screws entered from the sides would support better than screws upwards into end grain of the board . Easy fix , a few modesty blocks later and its been fine for 2 years now BUT as everyone has been saying we shouldnt need to....and they should know better!

by AutoSleepy_Don Tue May 01, 2018 8:07 pm

Just a thought, but, are we sure AS have not changed the design since the problems were reported?

Just noticed the OPs van (Kingham) is a 2017 model so that means the issue is still affecting current vans so that hope has gone.

by kaspian Tue May 01, 2018 8:14 pm

Hi Peter I know sub assemblies such as seat frames which are loaded in a crash by seatbelt mounts are tested as can be seen by rock and roll beds sold for VW van conversions but do converters have to submit a completed van of each type for crash testing as I would love to see how some would fair in a head on collision test at say 30mph having seen how some furniture and heavy appliances are built and fitted.

by Peter Brown Tue May 01, 2018 8:20 pm

No, none of them submit a completed van. You are so right about the danger of flying appliances/pets. Even those bolted to the floor will detach and fly.