How Disappointing- New Microwave Housing

After my recent praise of the overall quality of my Kingham, marred only slightly by the poor design of the microwave housing, that issue has raised its head again and I'm not so impressed this time round, even if it's not spoiling my overall enjoyment of the van, it could so easily have been avoided.

There are several members on the forum, myself included, who have highlighted the issue of the microwave shelf coming loose and risking collapse, either on to the glass sink top and tap, where it will undoubtedly cause expensive damage, or worse, coming loose in a collision and potentially seriously injuring someone.

I noticed last year that mine had come loose while I was away from home and I had to remove the microwave to be able to travel home safely, without risking further damage. My dealer checked the housing and reported that due to the fixings moving so much, the screw holes had become elongated and submitted a warranty claim to Auto-Sleeper for an entire replacement housing.
They 'beefed up' the defective housing in the meantime to allow me to continue to use it and a couple of weeks ago, while the van was in for its first habitation check, my dealer replaced the microwave housing.

The only slight issue I had was that my dealer reused the adhesive screw covers, which had started to lose their adhesion and looked unsightly, peeling off. Auto-Sleeper very quickly sent me a strip of new covers and I've just been out to the van to fit them, only to find that the 'new' microwave housing is loose and actually worse than on the first occasion, with elongated screw holes again.

Now that the panels have moved apart, I can see that Auto-Sleeper have provided exactly the same unit as the poorly designed and inadequate one that it replaced. 

They have done absolutely nothing to rectify the design weakness and I'm also not impressed that on realising this, my dealer did nothing to 'beef up' this new installation.

More mileage, more fuel, more time off the road if I return it to my dealer for another warranty submission and although I said last year that to eliminate future warranty problems, I preferred to have the dealer fix the problem, I will be sorting it myself this time to make sure it's done properly !

Emails will be heading off to both AS and Marquis shortly.

Hi former Wolf. 

I like this part of your post - long may it continue,  " . . . it's not spoiling my overall enjoyment of the van."

Not being familiar with your van or its microwave housing, this may be rubbish, but . . . 

Would it be easiest to cut two pieces of 10mm thick board to fix under the shelf, and against the sides of the unit underneath. Not too difficult to make them a push fit so they are fully supporting the shelf, and one screw in each would be plenty to hold them in place.

That's how I fit extra shelves in our top cupboards, except that I use double sided tape to hold the supports so there's even less damage to the van.

Just a thought. It could be barely noticeable, it would certainly work, and only one screw hole.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Thanks Dave, 

Unfortunately, the microwave hangs in mid-air, directly opposite the sofa in the Kingham, in the side door opening and higher than seated eye level, meaning any such mod will be constantly visible to me from the sofa, plus the fact that there are only a few millimetres of sidewall under the bottom shelf.

I also don't want to screw through from the side walls, as the screws will be immediately visible in the plain side panels.

I'm going to use long metal angles that will be screwed from the inside of the microwave housing and will be totally hidden by the microwave, once it's back in place.

Hi TAFKAW , Unlike Gromit and his rose coloured glasses I look at your OTHER comments -More mileage, more fuel, more time off the road if I return it to my dealer for another warranty submission and although I said last year that to eliminate future warranty problems, I preferred to have the dealer fix the problem, I will be sorting it myself this time to make sure it's done properly !   
       
If you check out previous posts I and others have used 'modesty blocks ' available in colour to match light woodwork . I suggest 3 per side and pick screws accordingly to penetrate as deep as possible without breakout on other side of board. It fixed our shelf in 10 mins and 2 years later its still solid. Why the factory still blindly churn out shoddy workmanship is  known only to them . THEY MUST be aware of it happening Luckily its not rocket science and under £3 to cure!
       Do it yourself and do it right but you shouldnt have to.........

Forgot to say in your case , yes remove microwave and you should  find the blocks clear the bottom edges of the microwave when slid back in as feet are not placed at extreme edge of micro' case and as you say are not seen but match colour of wood anyway. I bought a bag on the 'bay for £2 .

kaspian wrote:Hi TAFKAW , Unlike Gromit and his rose coloured glasses .......

Not really rose coloured.

I was complimenting him on being able to maintain a positive attitude, and not let the problems spoil his enjoyment of the van. It shouldn't happen, but with a hand built vehicle it's bound to. Not letting it get to you is the secret, 'cos all the fuming and swearing in the world won't make a lot of difference - regrettably!

My glass is half full - if it was half empty I would be miserable!   

Kingham wrote:

I'm going to use long metal angles that will be screwed from the inside of the microwave housing and will be totally hidden by the microwave, once it's back in place.

 Hi,
Sounds like the chocolate blocks might do the job but if you decide to go down the metal angle route have you thought of using anodised aluminium angle. Easier to cut and machine plus a bit lighter. Might have some spare in the man cave 

Cheers Windy

Cheers all and cheers Windy for the offer, but I've got plenty of pre-drilled stainless steel in the garage that will do the job.

It would have been done by now, but I didn't have any short screws left and haven't had the chance to get out for some today. 

It will wait until next weekend, as I'm off gallivanting again in the morning.

Gromit wrote:

kaspian wrote:Hi TAFKAW , Unlike Gromit and his rose coloured glasses .......

Not really rose coloured.

I was complimenting him on being able to maintain a positive attitude, and not let the problems spoil his enjoyment of the van. It shouldn't happen, but with a hand built vehicle it's bound to. Not letting it get to you is the secret, 'cos all the fuming and swearing in the world won't make a lot of difference - regrettably!

My glass is half full - if it was half empty I would be miserable!   

Hi Gromit, surely its not' bound to'
        ...Its not the fact that it happens but the fact that it happens time after time, year after year. Any other company I have had experience of  work on constant improvement, ie if something is shown not to be up to the job, alter improve or redesign but A/s just seem to bury their heads and arrogantly continue to churn out the same design flaws and we keep reading about the same faults year after year. I remember this being reported from 2013 and 5 years later , same old faults. My glass is fully empty- I just drank it too numb the pain! 

Well said Kaspian, especially when AS must be aware that the poor design, regarding the housing of a microwave, could result in damage to the other units or at worst lead to a serious accident as it falls whilst travelling and becomes a dangerous flying projectile when braking!

I am sure someone will tell me I am overthinking the consequences!! 

Pete

Kingham
You quoted.  "I also don't want to screw through from the side walls, as the screws will be immediately visible in the plain side panels.


My microwave is in different housing but has screws from outside covered by the adhesive dots that you say you already have. It's surely the easiest way to secure the shelf.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hi Pete and Kaspian

I knew what I meant to say, but something happened en route to my typing finger!! I blame these new hearing aids!! 

When I said, " . . . not let the problems spoil his enjoyment of the van. It shouldn't happen, but with a hand built vehicle it's bound to." I didn't mean that specific problem with the microwave housing.

I was referring to the more general problems, hopefully small ones, that are bound to happen when humans make the occasional mistake. I quite agree with you about the continuing cock up with the microwave housing. When the same mistake is made over and over again, it's time someone was taken to task.

I don't suppose A/S are unique in this, but why does it take so long to rectify a known fault? It's too easy to blame the computer , or say it has to go right back to the design stage for a re-write of the plans (or whatever imaginative excuse they can think up to mollify the customer).

In days gone by someone would have had a quick word with the chap (or chapess - we have to be so PC now! ) who builds the housing, and after a quick discussion he/she would thereafter fix it properly with an extra bracket - or whatever.

Now it takes at least six months to go all the way through the system until new instructions are produced for his job sheet! Assuming it ever gets done at all!! 

Whatever happened to all the promises that these type of ongoing problems would be highlighted and resolved with the implementation of BS5750/ISO9000?

rogerblack wrote:Whatever happened to all the promises that these type of ongoing problems would be highlighted and resolved with the implementation of BS5750/ISO9000?

This comment is cynical and nothing to do with Auto-Sleepers; in my experience, these quality schemes were only ever implemented to pass an audit and gain accreditation.  They were not implemented to improve the quality of any service or product.

Peter Brown wrote:

rogerblack wrote:Whatever happened to all the promises that these type of ongoing problems would be highlighted and resolved with the implementation of BS5750/ISO9000?

This comment is cynical and nothing to do with Auto-Sleepers; in my experience, these quality schemes were only ever implemented to pass an audit and gain accreditation.  They were not implemented to improve the quality of any service or product.

you only had to say how good your product was and then prove to the auditors that you met or bettered your target. Saying you were aiming for 10% pass mark and hitting 10% was far better than aiming for 95% and hitting 94%.

Paulmold wrote:Kingham
You quoted.  "I also don't want to screw through from the side walls, as the screws will be immediately visible in the plain side panels.

My microwave is in different housing but has screws from outside covered by the adhesive dots that you say you already have. It's surely the easiest way to secure the shelf.

You're correct Paul, but for the little bit of extra effort involved, I'd prefer the virtually invisible method of having the fixings inside the housing and concealed by the microwave.

Peter Brown wrote:

rogerblack wrote:Whatever happened to all the promises that these type of ongoing problems would be highlighted and resolved with the implementation of BS5750/ISO9000?

This comment is cynical and nothing to do with Auto-Sleepers; in my experience, these quality schemes were only ever implemented to pass an audit and gain accreditation.  They were not implemented to improve the quality of any service or product.

Perhaps a better question, even if viewed by some as cynical, would be 'what happened to build quality'?    

I mean, you guys are talking about a £50k+ van here with bits falling off after just one year which i don't just find staggering.......i find it totally unacceptable. And sad to say but poster Kinghams experience is not the only one...i've read quite a few which some folk seem to just accept as 'teething problems'. Where on earth is the quality control on these vans? Some issues may seem minor but i'm sorry, at this cost level people should be expecting and demanding a much better end product without having to keep returning back to the dealer each time a shelf falls off or a microwave drops on an owners head.

Hi Bulletguy

While I entirely agree with the sentiment of your comments I think they have to be balanced against a realistic and pragmatic view.

By that I mean, No - of course things should not drop off, but humans are not robots and poorly paid ones will make mistakes and cut corners. It's the nature of the beast, and seems to be more so in recent years. Quality control can only be as good as the Quality Controllers, and they are human too . . . assuming they exist??

It may be that A/S find it cheaper to fix the problems, than to employ a team of inspectors to check every aspect of every finished van?? (And before you leap for the keyboard, I know I've just opened the door for another (possibly quite justified) rant!  )

With reference to this, here is where the element of pragmatism comes in. For anything serious the van goes back to the dealer or to Willersey of course, but if a screw comes loose and it's a 100 mile round trip, what do you do? Do you throw a strop and go anyway, on principle, demanding a refund for your diesel etc., or do you get the screwdriver out?

I doubt if everybody is ever going to agree over this issue, but the main reason for getting a van in the first place is to enjoy using it - and sometimes, for some people, its best to take the easy way out and reach for the tool box.

Just my opinion of course, and the varifocals are not particularly rose coloured. 

All the time people are willing to fix things themselves and not get them fixed under warranty, the bean counters never see the true extent of the problem, or at least their books never do. Of course, these are the same bean counters who have made warranty claims difficult and so owners will make minor repairs.

That's the door I opened for another rant Dave. 

Can't disagree in principle, but as I said, it's sometimes the pragmatic and easy way out.

We had a similar issue at work. The engineers would mark up changes on drawings and feed them to the design office. We would do the changes, asking the engIneer such questions as, why does this wire leave the page a 2mm red but arrive at the next page as a 1mm green. It was decided to outsource these drawing changes and leave the DO to other things. Of course this is quicker/cheaper but resulted in red wires on one page and green wires on another. And then to compound the folly, the engineers got access to AutoCAD and did the minor changes themselves.

I'm not complaining. Without this shortsighted approach I wouldnt have been made redundant and wouldn't have bought a brand new van.

I think it is about time AS addresses these problems, luckily with my older van I don't have them and neither did the previous owners when they had from new.  as I found out from speaking to the first owners, AS cared then, now think that a previous quality van still stands on that name.  That is why I would never have a new van, sooner have two older ones, mind you if someone gave me one, I would sell it in my view it has nothing to do with workers getting so called low wages, if a a job is worth doing , do it well as it still takes the time to do a bad job as a good one,  then a bad one has to be redone, this was instilled in me by my parents, that is why things have to be right for me. trouble is today standards have slipped in all walks of life, this doesn`t make it acceptable, in my book, may do in others, why folk keep accepting shoddy workmanship then it will never improve.

Foreign vans are more and more in this country now and more dealers selling them, some of those have their  problems, as on other forums, there is one make that developed a problem here and the firm sent a load loader to collect from buyer took it back to factory and returned it to this country owners home, that is customer service.

I think in a few years AS will be struggling and go under, as Avondale did and many others. This is just my view and facts as I have found out. others may disagree, They are not on their own , other British builders are as bad, that doesn`t make it right. If AS wants to be known for premier vans, they had better pull their socks up. instead of burying their heads in the sand, thinking it will go away.

As Mark at AS told me, quite proud of the fact, when things go wrong we will put it right eventually, he thought that was acceptable, perhaps he should get it right first time, that is something to be proud of. They charge enough

Best regards
Margaret

Going back to the original theme of this thread, the microwave housing. If it had been replaced and they said " we've beefed it up by putting extra screws from the outside with screw caps to hide them" what would Kingham reaction have been?

Paulmold wrote:Going back to the original theme of this thread, the microwave housing. If it had been replaced and they said " we've beefed it up by putting extra screws from the outside with screw caps to hide them" what would Kingham reaction have been?

Fortunately that's irrelevant as they didn't and I have the opportunity to do a better job of it 

daisy mae wrote:
I think in a few years AS will be struggling and go under, as Avondale did and many others.

AS have just filled their latest accounts, They are actually doing REALLY REALLY well. nowhere near "going under"

Turnover up to £139 from £122 last year.  Thats MILLION quid.
Profit from £6.2 last year to £7.6 this year. Again million quid.

This is the group. If I separate out just the van building, it is even MORE stageringly healthy (profitable).

They primary job is to keep their shareholders happy and they are most certainly doing that.