Symphony Gearbox

Hi again!

As we get used to our 1995 Symphony, and start to get out and about, there are a few questions it would be helpful to have feedback on.

1. Gearchange.

We know we have a problem with the synchro-mesh on second gear, i.e. there isn't any! It failed just after we bought "Alice" and wasn't helped by finding the gearbox was almost dry, despite the dealer saying the vehicle had been fully serviced before sale! As mentioned previously, the warrenty offered was pretty useless and the cost of repair was quoted at about £1K. Needless to say, I've been practicing the art of double declutching, and this has proved at least a temporary solution, until finances improve.
Now the question is, how stiff should the overall gearchange process be? All gears can be engaged, but it requires a cupped palm, a firm grip on the gear lever, and a fair amount of muscle power to shift gears. Is this just the legacy of the base commercial vehicle, rather than a car, or is the linkage in need of attention as well? We understand from speaking to the transmission specialist that early Boxers suffered gearbox problems, not least water penetration through the linkage arm. Wereas we don't seem to have that problem currently we wonder whether it may have occured in the past.

2. Waste Water Tank emptying.

We seem to have a tap just under the main sliding access door, and this is connected to a flexible hose running under the vehicle to the tank. However, the whole assembly seems to be fixed with those electrical ties you can get, including the tap mounting to the underside of the chassis. Now this isn't going to be how Auto Sleepers designed/installed the thing, but what was the original configuration/fixing?

Ather than that, we're really enjoying our first motor home experience, and everything else works a treat.

Any thoughts?

regards

Jeff

When we first got our last van (Executive) I thought 5th was stiff and a mate suggested lifting the boot around the gear lever and squirting WD40 on the joints and down the cable. This believe it or not improved the gear change on all selections. For the eight years we had the van I did this 2 min op once a year and had no problems selecting gears after the first time I did it. Not sure it will cure your problem but worth a try

Jeff and Di,

My Symphony is a 1997 so I would think very similar to yours. Firstly, gearbox, mine is tight and a bit notchy but I don't think its as bad as yours sounds but with these dash mounted gearsticks you have to remember its a long way to the gearbox, perhaps a good squirt of WD40 as Roli suggests may help. Secondly, the waste pipe, mine is on the opposite side of the van, i.e. not the sliding door side. It is a quite large bore reinforced clear plastic pipe (not so clear now)about 2ft long with a water-butt type tap on end, clipped onto the underside of sill by a terry-clip. The tap itself being right-angled is prone to clogging and I constantly have to whack it on the ground to clear the gunk. If yours is on the door side I don't think this is original.

Hi

I have removed the Tap completely, and replaced it with one of those wine bottle bungs, which is a perfect fit. In my opinion the tap slows down the draining process so much, that the grease and gunge settles and solidifies in the tap area.


Andy

Hi everyone, and thanks for the feedback.

With regard to the gearbox, I did as suggested, and squirted WD40 all over the linkage. There did seem to be quite a lot of grease spread all over the several joints/bearings but it did look quite old, so a good squirt of new stuff wasn't going to do any harm.
I went for a good run around, practicing my double de-clutch technique as I went! and the gearchange mechanism does now seem a bit easier.

As far as the waste drain is concerned, I suppose we'll have to run with what we've got for a while and try to see why it was reinstalled as non standard.

kind regards

Jeff

Hi Jeff

Hope your stiff gear change is not a sign of something nasty lurking around the corner, here's hoping it stays well for you

John

Jeff,
Don't forget that WD40 is not really a lubricant. If it has loosened the hardened grease in the linkage it would be as well soon to quirt some spray grease in the joints.
squip

My 1995 Harmony was an early build gearbox, probably one of the first. The distinguishing factor for the early boxes was the provision of a gearbox oil dipstick which, subsequently, was deleted.

Water ingress was a problem in early gearboxes, particularly as every drop of water landing on a Symphony or Harmony roof (on the level) came into the heater plenum chamber, then was dumped onto the gearbox via a pathetic little flap valve drain tube about four inches long. I have seen three different variants of this drain tube over the years but if anyone still has the short one, then my advice would be to get rid of it.

Having said all that we never suffered from gearbox water ingress as far as I know - our problem was that with the early Boxers it was possible to cause the gearbox to lock solid when going from reverse to first. If the vehicle was on a slope at that point and the transmission was loaded you were stuck until you lifted a front wheel to free it up. The dealer would not believe it could be done even whan I demonstrated it to them. I went to hell and back with Peugeot in the period leading up to my first foreign trip and eventually they agreed to a gearbox change. However the one they fitted was very noisy - presumably previously rejected by someone else - then the garage fitted another which was extremely stiff to change gear, particularly fifth. So they fitted another one, which was also more noisy than the first but at least I could change gear. Eventually I got sick of that one though and so I had another one fitted which lasted me until my recent engine/transmission upgrade. So gearboxes were a terrible issue for me in the early days having had three changes, all under warranty. At that time I had a friend who had connections with PSA parts organisations: he said they were up to their you know what in returned gearboxes in the year or so after launch.

My view is that the majority of gear change issues related more to the gearboxes than the cable gear change mechanism - this remained unchanged during my troubles. After 65,000 miles my fourth gearbox had lasted 15 years and was fine with the exception of partial loss of synchromesh going up the gears when cold.

Stuart

Hi Stuart


On my 1995 Exec, when I go up into 5th Gear(@ about 40mph) the acceleration becomes hesitant until I get to 45ish. It has been like this since I bought it 3 years ago. I have learned to live with it, and tried to eliminate it by replacing things like plugs, & filters.,but to no avail.

Could this be the dreaded 5th Gear failure?



Any suggestions would be appreciated

Andy

If it's fine at 45 mph then I'd suggest you're just expecting a little bit too much from an overdrive gear at 40 mph.

I agree in respect of the speed to change into fifth - sounds like the revs might be too low making the engine labour too much. However if the petrol engine genuinely isn't pulling at low revs then perhaps you have an engine control system issue, but it doesn't sound like a gearbox issue per se.

Regarding engine control, I suffered from engine revs sensor failure in the early years which meant it wouldn't pull or idle properly. I also had the vacuum lines to sensors/valves at the front of the engine bay split and that also upset the performance. These valves are located under the front cross member and in my case you could hear the hiss of loss of vacuum when you held your ear close. Other than that my engine has been problem free.

If you suspect the engine it might be worth getting the fault codes logged off the ECU. I never succeded in reading faults from the vehicle's ECU - the Marrelli 8P ECU gives out old fashioned flash codes rather than OBD or OBD2 diagnostics but, as I say, the connector from which to read them didn't seem to do so in my case. Has anyone else had better luck I wonder?

Stuart

Hi Stuart


Thank you for your reply with regards to my problem in 5th gear. The engine sounds fine at tickover and ok going up through the gears, just a hint of stutter at the top end of 4th then quite pronounced in 5th at about 40 - 45ish. The speed does seem to drop off quickly as soon as I hit any sort of incline though. MPG is about 20/22. driven fairly sedately. I have wondered about the Catalytic Converter needing replacing, and fitting one of those decat pipes, it does feel that the engine is fighting against acceleration. Don't know anything about the engine sensors, although I did have it tuned up last year and they said the engine was fine. Once again thank you for you reply.




Andy

On my 2lt petrol Symphony, it also seems to be 'hunting' at speeds around 45/50 in 5th, so I have to drop to 4th. If we were talking back in the days of carbs, I'd be looking at the mixture but you can't do that with injectors. In the latest MMM mag ther is an article on the best way to get best performance from this engine with regards what revs it best works at. Only problem is I don't have a rev counter!

Biggest problem with the petrol Boxer engine of that era is water ingress from the bonnet scuttle seal - the rainwater drips (pours!) onto the spark plug lead tops and finds it's way down to the plugs - therefore causing a misfire under load.

A new set of leads/plugs should sort it out - and a look at the seal. Try watering the windscreen lightly with the bonnet open and you'll see what I mean

dandywarhol wrote:Biggest problem with the petrol Boxer engine of that era is water ingress from the bonnet scuttle seal - the rainwater drips (pours!) onto the spark plug lead tops and finds it's way down to the plugs - therefore causing a misfire under load.

A new set of leads/plugs should sort it out - and a look at the seal. Try watering the windscreen lightly with the bonnet open and you'll see what I mean

I've seen that problem but on mine it pours from the scuttle right onto the battery so I have piece of heavy guage plastic sheet over the battery.

I've seen that problem but on mine it pours from the scuttle right onto the battery so I have piece of heavy guage plastic sheet over the battery.

I had the same problem and lost my first battery through water damage under warranty. I too made a cover to protect the battery top from water. However if the bonnet to body seal is effective, pliable and in the correct position (left to right) and importantly if the van is parked on the level, then water falling on the roof and screen should mostly go down the aforementioned drain from the plenum chamber. For this reason on a sloping drive I always parked my van on a levelling block to minimise water flow down the battery side of the vehicle's nose. Having now updated the van to a Mk2 Boxer front end with the revised drain and bonnet seal the problem no longer is an issue.

Stuart

Re water ingress.On my symphony 1995 battery side of scuttle have drilled hole big enough to take 15 mm yorkshire copper elbow araldited in facing back of van (as not to catch on wiper mechanism)then pipe on it down back of engine -small pipes just get blocked. On nearside scuttle bulkhead rubber drain,cut "beak" of bottom and glued a pushbike innertube on it going down past gearbox .On another note check sump for rust as this is common and soon s through ....expensive job . Chris