symphony gear change

have owned this 1997 symphony for only a few weeks and have read that some owners have issues with 'notchy' gear change..some say due to the distance between the dashboard lever and gearbox..some say it's loss of synchromesh on 1st/2nd gear..some have had the gear lever get stuck and are unable to change gear at all!..
my experience is that engaging 1st gear at standstill can be tough and when moving, changing from 1st to 2nd can be very 'notchy'..2nd to 3rd and upwards not too bad..changing back down through the gears seems easier, although 3rd to 2nd has to be done at very slow speed otherwise 2nd is difficult to engage..
I did try removing the rubber gaiter around the gear lever exposing the linkages and spraying with 3in1 oil..didn't seem to make any difference though..
in my case the clutch pedal needs to be pressed right to the floor before attempting gear change..
has anyone managed to overcome these difficulties or is it something we have to put up with?
could it be a case of adjusting clutch to raise the 'biting' point, if this is possible?

birder999 wrote:...........

in my case the clutch pedal needs to be pressed right to the floor before attempting gear change..
.................

Hi there,

Luckily, it does sound as if it is more likely to be a clutch problem than a gearbox problem.

There is some adjustment available on most clutch arrangements so you may be able to adjust the clutch so that it "bites" and "disengages" before your foot hits the deck.

If it can't then I think a new clutch is probably on the cards rather than a new gearbox!

Best regards,

I have exactly the same problem with my Symbol I've only owned it for 3 weeks its a 2002. I have greased both ends of the gear change cables and I'm going for a run tomorrow to see if there's any improvement. I'll let you know.

Hi, Day out went well, gear change has improved no end after greasing cable ends. 1st is still a bit stiff to engage from neutral and a standing start but i figure thats because on a Sunday run out you do not have to select first gear much. So hopefully it will improve once grease finds its way in. I think some of the problems were me as the the gears were worrying me and I was changing gear to fast also not depressing the clutch fully. I used a paint brush to apply the grease I think i will buy some spray grease to make it easier to apply.

Hi,
The cable adjustment at the clutch arm should bring the clutch and brake pedals level as the clutch needs to be pressed to the floor to enable smooth changes, you may need to make the cluch pedal slightly higher to get a smooth change I have suffered from water ingress to the gearbox (2001 petrol ) made worse by lack of use, if you have the oil changed make sure they use standard gear oil as using the thinner stuff recommended for later models by Peugeot actually makes the change diabolical with crashing, blocking etc. The change will never be up to Ford standards but with the clutch to the floor and a slow smooth gearchange it is acceptable,
Regards,
Chris V

Hi,
We also have a 97 Symphony, which we've owned for 2 years now.
Gear changing was also a problem for us, and we too did the oil the linkage routine, with limited success. However our problem continued to develop into loss of syncro on second gear, resulting in a "Crash!" course in the black art of double de-clutching. This kept us going for a while, but ultimately we had to swallow hard and face up to the reality of a gearbox repair. This was done six months ago, and included a new clutch.
Now I'm not saying your problem is as severe as that, and others have posted some very good practical advice on what may solve the problem, but all I will say is that once the new gearbox was run in a bit, the gear change has been a lot better, but, I've realised it will never be as light as a car, and does require a good steady pull to get things done. Like you, I think I was trying to do things too fast, but now feel that I've got the hang of it.
Hope this helps.

Jeff

Hi, thanks for info, hopefully not a gearbox change, but roughly how much does it cost for a recon gearbox and new clutch inlcuding fitting.

woodlice wrote:Hi, thanks for info, hopefully not a gearbox change, but roughly how much does it cost for a recon gearbox and new clutch inlcuding fitting.

Hi there,

New OE clutch +/- £600 fitted.

Re-con gearbox "Ouch!" Don't know but I think you are talking a lot of money (assuming £600 isn't already a lot)!!

Best regards,

Ian

Jeff and Di Giblin wrote:Hi,
We also have a 97 Symphony, which we've owned for 2 years now.
Gear changing was also a problem for us, and we too did the oil the linkage routine, with limited success. However our problem continued to develop into loss of syncro on second gear, resulting in a "Crash!" course in the black art of double de-clutching. This kept us going for a while, but ultimately we had to swallow hard and face up to the reality of a gearbox repair. This was done six months ago, and included a new clutch.
Now I'm not saying your problem is as severe as that, and others have posted some very good practical advice on what may solve the problem, but all I will say is that once the new gearbox was run in a bit, the gear change has been a lot better, but, I've realised it will never be as light as a car, and does require a good steady pull to get things done. Like you, I think I was trying to do things too fast, but now feel that I've got the hang of it.
Hope this helps.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your post, I too have learned the secret of the slow gear change. Having driven vans before, mostly Transits or Vivaros, the Peugeot gears leave a lot to be desired. (This even applied to my old Peugeot 406)

As matter of interest, could I ask what mileage were you up to before the gearbox was changed? My 1999 Symphony has done 42k. so I wouldn't expect too much wear. (Unless it was abused by the previous owner.)

Thanks,

Mike D

My Symphony gear changing is what I would expect from a van. Slow and deliberate is the way especially with an older van. I've driven a Fiat Doblo van for the past 3 years so am used to driving in that manner. If you expect it to be as smooth as a car you will be disappointed.

Hi everyone,

Well, to get the bad news over first, it cost us £1,500!

This included re-building the gearbox, a new clutch, refacing the flywheel, and a new starter motor.
So, the first question has got to be why spend that amount of hard earned cash on what is basically a seventeen year old road vehicle? Well, from our point of view the habitation area was in very good condition, and the body is pretty well rust free, and the 2.5 litre turbo diesel engine has only done a relatively modest 80K miles. On top of this, we love our little home from home, and have enjoyed many happy times in her. So, mere money was not the only consideration, though it did make the financial eyes water at the time!

Other random experiences at the time were as follows.

Our local garage would happily change a gearbox, but were not too keen to repair one. The age of the base vehicle also meant that no exchange units were available, so a rebuild of the original became the only option.
This required the services of a gearbox specialist, and we visited several to inspect and get quotes. We settled on a fairly large one. It wasn't the cheapest, but it did appear to be well run and they knew all about our base vehicle, having worked on them for many years.
On delivering our Symphony on the chosen day, the first thing I noticed was that half the ten or so vehicle ramps were occupied by motorhomes. On commenting on this, I was given the following pearls of wisdom:

1. Light commercial vehicles are designed for a short brutal life, opposite to what happens to a motor home, and will be worn out in other ways before reaching the age of many of our little treasures.
2. The extra effort of constantly lugging the heavy habitation conversion around takes an early toll.
3. Many motor home owners do drive them like cars, and this also takes its toll on the gearbox.

I was also told I'd done quite well to get 80,000 miles out of mine, and half of that wasn't unusual.

Did I believe him? well I'm not qualified to say, but they gave every impression of knowing exactly what they were talking about, so I leave it to you to judge.


Hope this helps


Jeff

I'd have done exactly the same ! I bought my '97 Symphony for the " fixtures and fittings "- didn't even test drive it- knowing that I was prepared to spend some dosh to get it roadworthy- and have done. When it's your second home like mine is- why not ??! Enjoy it

Just got my Symbol back from my local garage, it went in there for glow plugs, welding and patch on the drivers side sill, which turned in to about about a two half feet in length. He said that the oil came out like cappuccino definitely water in it. they refilled with 2 litres of fully synthetic oil. On the drive home it felt better, especially 1st gear selection

I have the extended scuttle rubber pipe but its not sealed properly therefore the water runs down the outside and then onto the gearbox. At the moment I'm covering the gear box (once its cold) partially with plastic. although the vehicle is new to me the previous owners records show that a fiat dealership changed the oil 18 months ago

They garage also said that there was no waxoil or any rust prevention inside the sills and that I would need to use rust preventer before wax oiling which they do not do. So I'm not sure what to do about potential rust. Any ideas?

woodlice wrote:................

They garage also said that there was no waxoil or any rust prevention inside the sills and that I would need to use rust preventer before wax oiling which they do not do. So I'm not sure what to do about potential rust. Any ideas?

Hi there,

No really magic bullet ideas I'm afraid as, like almost anything, prevention is better than cure!

I recommend that whatever you do in the end, you stick to one manufacturer's system from "primer" to " finish" and although there are a variety of products on the market one that I particularly like is:

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I have used Owatrol successfully on my boat for rust prevention but I have to say that on a vehicle it will take a lot of effort to get in to prepare everything and to get to where it can do the most good.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Ian

I recently broke a clutch pedal on our 2000 pug Symbol. Up to that moment I was double de clutching for 2nd and 3rd once the gearbox was warm. But Lo and behold new pedal fitted and more probs. I can only think that perhaps the pedal has been fitted slightly higher giving more clutch clearance,
Cheers JB.

Does your Symbol have a cable clutch? I've found that breaking pedals are a sign that the cable is on it's way out. It might be an idea to change it now, if you haven't already done so.
I need to have my clutch pedal higher than the brake to get a decent change.

Frank

Thanks for that Frank yes it is cable it's been removed and lubed also some thin oil around the operating lever on the gear box.
JB.

Hi Jaybe,
I assume that in your post more probs should read no more probs.


Brian2.

Dah well spotted

jaybee3946 wrote: yes it is cable it's been removed and lubed also some thin oil around the operating lever on the gear box.
JB.

If it's a nylon lined cable then lubing it with oil or grease could effect the liner, causing it to bunch up and jam the inner cable, this has happened to me on motorcycle cables. I've never lubed a car/van clutch cable, I think when they go stiff, it's because the liner has worn through somewhere.
The genuine Peugeot cable I fitted seems to be impregnated with graphite and was much smoother than the non OE one.

Frank

Round to the menders for a Pug cable.
Cheers mate advice appreciated. JB.

Hi Boxerman, Would suggest carrying a spare clutch cable? My gearshift is very good but?
regards
mike

Hi Mike,
If you are a member of the RAC, AA etc.. and your clutch cable goes, they will replace the inner cable with an emergency one from a kit of parts they carry (as the man said, the outer doesn't break). This will get you home or until you can get a new cable (and a lot further besides ) I now carry this emergency cable for a spare.
What they don't carry are pedals, and if the top of the pedal snaps off, you're goose'd! it's a tow in job. Since this happened to me, I've carried a spare pedal. They are not expensive I think it was around £10 at the time.
So in answer to your question, if you are in one of the emergency services,you don't really need to carry a spare cable but it's wise to have a pedal handy. If you are not a member,carry both

Frank

Thanks Frank,good advice. Maybe you used to carry a spare clutch cable taped to your handlebars on a motorcycle?
Funny enough they did not break for me when a spare cable was carried.The one trip it broke was my visit to the Earls court motorcycle show in 1958.
No spare so i had to return to Wiltshire changing gear carefully and avoiding stops.
i will get a spare pedal and cable as most of my driving is overseas.
I do take risks like Dutto and in my case i don,t take a spare wheel.!!
regards
Mike

mikethebike wrote:Thanks Frank,good advice. Maybe you used to carry a spare clutch cable taped to your handlebars on a motorcycle?

Yup! and a pocketfull of solderless nipples

Funny enough they did not break for me when a spare cable was carried.

It's the talisman syndrome - whatever spares you carry, you won't need


Frank