Symphony (Boxer) Speedo Failure

From my research on the internet you will probably have had this query posted before
I have a 1977 Boxer Symphony that has just had a speedo failure. My research would suggest that water in the gearbox has caused the transducer to fail
My questions are :-
1. What oil should i put in the gearbox, there is some suggestion that a thinner oil has bee recommended, but other suggestions are to stay with the original spec.
2. How easy is it to replace the transducer.

And a general question re a manual for the base boxer (I have the autosleeper manual.
Many thanks

Phil

Can't help with the speedo/oil question but as regards the Boxer manual, I believe that the only one available is the Russek one (apart from the ones on CD).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hi,
Surely a 1977 would be on a Talbot chassis, or is that a typo?
Chris

Hi Chris
Your are absolutely correct.................should have been 1997.

Many thanks

Phil

Hi Phil,

According to my Boxer manual the recommended lube for the 270C/CS (petrol) gearbox is Esso Gear Oil BV 75W-80W New Formula or Total Transmission BV 75W-80W New Formula.

My Boxer is a 1999 model so I beleive it will be the same.

The Handbook is AN.REF. 98 BOX 0030 if this helps you to locate one.

Mike D

P J Field wrote:From my research on the internet you will probably have had this query posted before
I have a 1977 Boxer Symphony that has just had a speedo failure. My research would suggest that water in the gearbox has caused the transducer to fail
My questions are :-
1. What oil should i put in the gearbox, there is some suggestion that a thinner oil has bee recommended, but other suggestions are to stay with the original spec.
2. How easy is it to replace the transducer.

And a general question re a manual for the base boxer (I have the autosleeper manual.
Many thanks

Phil

Re erratic or failure of speedo failure - my problem came from the 'sender unit' on my 2003 Boxer was as follows :-

The speedo sensor unit that fits into a hole on the lower side of the gearbox is both mechanical and electrical in operation (one electrical spade type connector on top and at the other end inside is a nylon spline drive unit that meshes with the appropriate gear cog) The unit is a push fit sealed with an O ring and should be held in place with one small bolt on a small bracket. So it actually is a relatively simple job to replace particularly for a 'd.i.y. inclined mechanic' this unit if you feel able to get under the vehicle and wish to tackle it

It is worth checking at the same time that the nylon drive is not worn, and if a replacement is needed it is important to have the correct replacement as an additional item with a replacement sender unit to order as it does not come with it (it will be colour coded for the Boxer )
A problem may be getting under the vehicle for access if you have no means of raising the front of the vehicle safely i.e. on suitably strong blocks under the wheels.
The position of the drainage hose from the windscreen scuttle (certainly on the earlier Boxers) effectively shot all the rainwater onto this unit and was said to be one of the the main problems of failure of this unit (rather than water in the gearbox??) getting into the electrical connection part. I repositioned my drainage hose and after several doses of WD40 and sealing up the top dried mine out (I think I got it just in time) I also then sealed the top with good quality tape around the cable connector in addition.
I originally had periods of both total loss of the speedo and erratic speedo needle but all has been o.k. for 2 years since.

Just a gripe on my part but I did actually buy a replacement speedo sensor unit to have in hand as i thought the problem may return but touch wood it has not to date. It took me a long time to get over the rather high price charged by Peugeot for this little unit that is common for Boxer,Ducato & Citroen
Someone in the trade who shall be nameless said Peugeot sell exactly the same unit labelled for certain cars i.e. older Peugot 406 etc .The difference only is the spline type that are colour coded for different vehicle models. For some reason this unit that is effectively the same bit when sold for the Boxer is a good deal dearer than the one labelled for a car ??
Perhaps they consider us Motorhome owners should pay a premium price?

Hi,
water ingress into the gearbox caused damage to the nylon drive gear for the speedo sender, it also seems that the driving gear inside the box can move over so that it no longer drives the sender. According to the Peugeot garage at the time of my problems you can have an electronic drive speedo, a mechanically driven speedo or a combination of the two, also the sensor is connected to the engine management??? These clowns also said that Peugeot recommended a thinner grade of Gear oil to give easier changes but in my case (2001 pre facelift petrol) this gave severe problems which vanished when the original grade of oil was put in.
I bought the russek manual for this van but it is limited use and does not go into the detail of a Haynes car manual, also the clutch cable settings it gives are impossible to achieve and need to be taken with a pinch of salt My advice would be to find a gearbox specialist you can trust to check out and repair your speedo and then ensure that the scuttle drain is redirected away from the gearbox. Because these vans tend to be parked up for long periods the water off the roof builds up, if you were to use it every day you probably would have no problems,
Regards,
Chris V

Thanks evryone for your help with this, now armed with all your information I feel that this is relatively easy for me to repair and preventy ant future occurance.
Phil

Ouch !!!!!!
Just had new sensor fitted (cable and drive shaft as well)..................£85 + VAT for the sensor!!!!!.
Had a service, with new oil in the gearbox the change is much smoother, so well worth doing as the oil was a milky with water.
Many thanks again to all who helped with information, so glad I joined. Hope I can be of use at a later date.
Phil

P J Field wrote:Ouch !!!!!!

That's what we all say when we 'fill' up!!

PB

Hi Folks,

Just a rider to all this with the speedo drive, You might remember that I had a new clutch a few weeks ago, well I moved the van last week only to find an oil leak from the gearbox. Thinking the worst (driveshaft oil seal) I investigated and it was the speedo drive housing leaking. I have got fed up with taking the van 100 miles to have it looked at so I am tackling it myself.

On investigation you should be able to disconnect the speedo drive cable from the speedo housing but it would not come out so I undid the speedo housing and pulled it from the gearbox only to find that the lower part of the housing had worn away and the oil was milky even though it was changed in December last year. I have now ordered a new speedo cable housing , green speedo drive, o ring and peg. All should be here by Wednesday.

I have got to investigate the scuttle re-position, drain the oil again and refill after I have done the work as my oil has been contaminated since December. All good fun, NOT.

Hope this is the last of my problems, only used the van twice

Best regards Mike

Hi,
Been there myself with the watery oil syndrome, check that there are no drips from where the pipe joins the scuttle also when not in use I have a plastic sheet stretched between the wing mirrors and down onto the bonnet so any water running down the windscreen runs straight onto the floor I still think the oil should be changed on a yearly basis,
Regards,
Chris

chrisvesey wrote:Hi,
Been there myself with the watery oil syndrome, check that there are no drips from where the pipe joins the scuttle also when not in use I have a plastic sheet stretched between the wing mirrors and down onto the bonnet so any water running down the windscreen runs straight onto the floor I still think the oil should be changed on a yearly basis,
Regards,
Chris

Thanks Chris, I seem to be on a steep learning curve with this van which I only purchased in November and only had two day trips in it.

Will check the scuttle for drips onto the gearbox and modify as needed. I have a Taylormade screen cover that covers the scuttle but water still gets into the scuttle via the top of the screen protector as my van had no overhang from the roof.

All in all I am a bit disheartened by the supplier and the design of the van. still onwards and upwards into the spring and a sincere hope that Winnie will behave herself as we plan to use the van to it's full potential in the summer.

Best regards Mike

Just a rider to this, it snowed her last night and today I was able to investigate the area where the water gets on the gearbox via the scuttle. There is a long drain pipe that feeds water away from the box. This pipe was removed to fit the clutch and as the snow thawed I could see water running down the outside of this pipe and onto the gearbox.
I shall remove the scuttle and refit the pipe from the top and seal it in this should stop any water dripping onto the gearbox.

I will check back later once I have completed the task.

Best regards Mike

As I remember.......remove wiper arms, remove all allen headed screws plus a couple of cross headed ones from the scuttle, WATCH out for the screenwash pipes if they come off you need to be double jointed to get them back, mine got clogged up and had to be taken off to clean out, lots of fun, note that the first tee piece contains a one way valve which I had to blow out with a compressor, make sure it goes back the same way. I took the drain pipe right off, cleaned it all up and refitted it with sealant but I still see an occasional drip run down the outside. I have also made a drip tray from an old plastic gallon can which fits under the pipe and catches the drips, Heath Robinson lives on ,
Regards,
Chris V

Thanks Chris for your info, I was thinking of starting a new thread or shall I hijack this one?
I was surprised that the Allen bolts came out so easily with the fact that they are full of water most of the time.
I have ordered a new " water evacuation pipe" at £18 +vat. so the saga continues.
Best regards Mike and Winnie

I'd be interested in the 'water evacuation pipe' as I don't seem to have any pipes even though I asked my garage to do it last year. So as to keep this thread 'legal' I too, would like to stop the water dripping down into the engine and affecting the speedo housing/gearbox.

Do you have a part number, where did you order it from and are there any pictures ?
Thank you.

newterry wrote:I'd be interested in the 'water evacuation pipe' as I don't seem to have any pipes even though I asked my garage to do it last year. So as to keep this thread 'legal' I too, would like to stop the water dripping down into the engine and affecting the speedo housing/gearbox.

Do you have a part number, where did you order it from and are there any pictures ?
Thank you.

Hang on Terry, I am waiting the pipe to make sure it is the right one. As soon as it arrives and is correct I will publish the part numbers

Best regards Mike.

.... I'm hanging ...........

Chris and Terry, I have started a new thread in this subject.

Best regards Mike,

Not sure whether anyone has mentioned this yet but on mk1 Boxers with a mechanical drive speedo it was not unknown for the cable to be poorly connected to the instrument binnacle. There was a clip on the cable which in some instances would not engage with the slots on the speedo drive so, one minute it might work but the next it would retract and disengage. Two screws and the instruments come out to facilitate inspection.

I also suffered from wear and internal corrosion of the speedo cable which resulted in erratic needle oscillation and annoying noises, particularly at low speed. Disconnecting the speedo and pouring oil down the cable used to help.

Bartfarst

Thanks for the Bartfast, I am just about to fit a new speedo cable as mine is stuck between the green drive pinion and the inner cable so I am fitting all from the green drive to the speedo head and I will check mime. Thanks.

Best regards Mike

Flying High wrote:Thanks for the Bartfast, I am just about to fit a new speedo cable as mine is stuck between the green drive pinion and the inner cable so I am fitting all from the green drive to the speedo head and I will check mime. Thanks.

Mike, I hope all goes well with refitting the cable. I think its pretty important to ensure the new cable either follows the original routing to the gear box, or a better one than the original in order to maintain relaxed radii and no sharp changes in direction. The outer watertight sleeve of my cable failed at a bend and I had to tape it up to stop any further water ingress.

Bartfarst

Hi Bartfarst,
speedo cable all now fitted, not a bad job really, I replaced all from the Green drive to the head today, fitting at the head end was quite easy as removal of the speedo head was very easy, (just 2 allen key screws).
My speedo drive housing had got hot and melted between the gear and housing?? Really strange.
All finished with new oil so I hope that's the end of my problems.

Best regards Mike

Great.
Thanks for the post.

PB