New Fairfrord on the Fiat Ducato Automatic

Interesting - will go to one ourselves soon. No awning? Do you mean no roll out canopy (thought these were standard) or walls to attach to it?

If you have any doubt about the plated masses for the axles and vehicle as a whole, the extant plate is a stick-on Auto-Sleepers Stage 2 Type Approval label on the passenger door pillar.  There is also likely to be a metal Fiat plate under the bonnet by the latch which applied before the vehicle was converted by Auto-Sleepers.  When you have the vehicle weighed, providing there is no ramp on and off the weigh bridge, it is relatively easy to measure an axle mass by only having that axle on the weigh bridge and then subtracting the mass from the mass for the vehicle as a whole to give you the other axle mass.

My dealer up rated the WXL I bought of them to 4500kg using a company called SV Tec, if you get there details and phone them they will talk you threw up rating and if any extras like new tyres larger wheels are needed , they are an excellent company and will help you out ,all the forms can be downloaded of there website

Chris, the issue for the 'special Marquis' versions or the AS version ordered with auto box is that they come on a Fiat chassis, no doubt the 3.5 tonner by default....there is no easy upgrade path for the axles...
Daves van at 3400kg 'empty' other than fuel, water, OH, small dog has no margin for loading, even with an apparent 'upgrade' to 3650kg.
ive sent some details to Dave, its critical to understand the current axle weights to find out where, if anywhere, there is spare axle capacity.
personally, i think AS should only be providing the auto version on the Fiat heavy chassis, in the same way as the Peugeot is supplied, as you say, it makes any upgrading easy....and with the extra weight of the auto box and the 'bonus' of a heavy aircon unit on the Marquis version, it makes no sense to 'squeeze' a heavier van onto the light chassis, where it may turn out to be not viable and therefore unfit for purpose...
AS have made a mistake here, im afraid.

I'm starting to think "I wish I hadn't asked!!".....

bolero boy wrote:Chris, the issue for the 'special Marquis' versions or the AS version ordered with auto box is that they come on a Fiat chassis, no doubt the 3.5 tonner by default....there is no easy upgrade path for the axles...
Daves van at 3400kg 'empty' other than fuel, water, OH, small dog has no margin for loading, even with an apparent 'upgrade' to 3650kg.
ive sent some details to Dave, its critical to understand the current axle weights to find out where, if anywhere, there is spare axle capacity.
personally, i think AS should only be providing the auto version on the Fiat heavy chassis, in the same way as the Peugeot is supplied, as you say, it makes any upgrading easy....and with the extra weight of the auto box and the 'bonus' of a heavy aircon unit on the Marquis version, it makes no sense to 'squeeze' a heavier van onto the light chassis, where it may turn out to be not viable and therefore unfit for purpose...
AS have made a mistake here, im afraid.

In my eyes then ,that van is unfit for purpose of any kind of touring ,it’s just a day trip van, but that’s just my opinion

daveandcarolewinwood wrote:I'm starting to think "I wish I hadn't asked!!".....

But it’s a good job you did ask other size you could well have been driving illegally, when I bought the WXL it was the first thing I had the dealer check even before we went to view it ,what was the weight and could it be up plated as we had to up plate the Autotrail to 4000kg to be legal

Hi, not posted on the forum before and have been reading a few of the posts, I have on order a Fairford with the Fiat chassis, after placing my order I asked the dealer about increasing the plated weight and he informed me that Auto-Sleeper will now plate the van to 4000kg for me.

Hi AliG - are they making a charge for that?  My dealer ((Marquis Dorset) when asked said that AS do not offer that option but it seems that they are incorrect.  I will be taking this up with them. When is your van due to be delivered?

bolero boy wrote:Chris, the issue for the 'special Marquis' versions or the AS version ordered with auto box is that they come on a Fiat chassis, no doubt the 3.5 tonner by default....there is no easy upgrade path for the axles...
Daves van at 3400kg 'empty' other than fuel, water, OH, small dog has no margin for loading, even with an apparent 'upgrade' to 3650kg.
ive sent some details to Dave, its critical to understand the current axle weights to find out where, if anywhere, there is spare axle capacity.
personally, i think AS should only be providing the auto version on the Fiat heavy chassis, in the same way as the Peugeot is supplied, as you say, it makes any upgrading easy....and with the extra weight of the auto box and the 'bonus' of a heavy aircon unit on the Marquis version, it makes no sense to 'squeeze' a heavier van onto the light chassis, where it may turn out to be not viable and therefore unfit for purpose...
AS have made a mistake here, im afraid.

I walked away from the automatic Warwick XL because of the light chassis.  Even if it can be uprated to 3850Kg, the axle limits are still there - and especially a problem as most of the WXL loading will tend to be on the back axle. 

Our friends have an Autotrail 635 (also 6.36m) and they have to be very careful with loading.

The latest engines etc have made the base vehicles heavier, and makes a 3,500Kg XL van harder to use.  The AS Fairford (4 seater) must be impossible.

AliG wrote:Hi, not posted on the forum before and have been reading a few of the posts, I have on order a Fairford with the Fiat chassis, after placing my order I asked the dealer about increasing the plated weight and he informed me that Auto-Sleeper will now plate the van to 4000kg for me.

I think that's wise.  Do you know if you're getting the light chassis, or the heavy?

FreelanderUK wrote:My dealer up rated the WXL I bought of them to 4500kg using a company called SV Tec, if you get there details and phone them they will talk you threw up rating and if any extras like new tyres larger wheels are needed , they are an excellent company and will help you out ,all the forms can be downloaded of there website

This is an easy upgrade with the heavy/maxi chassis, but the fiats come on the light chassis by default.  It's only through this forum that I found that AS will build one on the heavy fiat chassis on request.  My local dealer lost a sale as I'd have ordered had I known.

.

Should be getting van in February, not sure what chassis it is??

AliG wrote:Hi, not posted on the forum before and have been reading a few of the posts, I have on order a Fairford with the Fiat chassis, after placing my order I asked the dealer about increasing the plated weight and he informed me that Auto-Sleeper will now plate the van to 4000kg for me.

If you have it agreed that it will arrive plated at 4000kg it will definitely be on a heavy chassis as the light one cannot make the required specifications to get above 3850kg.
The cost for the heavy chassis is £1000 and this is in addition to the automatic gearbox cost of £2000 or £3000 for the auto 160hp engine

daveandcarolewinwood wrote:Hi AliG - are they making a charge for that?  My dealer ((Marquis Dorset) when asked said that AS do not offer that option but it seems that they are incorrect.  I will be taking this up with them. When is your van due to be delivered?

My dealer said that AS won’t do the up plate as the type approval certification is all based on 3500kg. My dealer will be doing it with SV Tech for me and included in the deal at no cost to me

PS. If we think the AS PVCs are bad, look at the AT Apache 634 - 190kg payload !!!!

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I love this statement on the website above "This motorhome can be driven on a standard driver’s licence."

When I bought my Merc Stanton Auto-Sleeper new it was on the 3200kg chassis with hardly any payload. I had seen threads on forums about it so dealer agreed to pay S V Tech to get it uprated to 3500kg. I received a paper sticker with the new weights on to stick next to original Merc plate.

A-S used to supply the Nuevo rated at 3300 kg (1750 kg front axle, 1900 kg rear axle) but its now rated at 3500 kg (1850 kg front axle, 2000 kg rear axle).  It doesn't make any difference to the front axle as you can't get anywhere near those masses but it does to the rear axle and the overall vehicle mass.

the Fairford auto weighs 3400kg with just driver, passenger and water on board. 
if owned by a couple then, youd think this van would be fine, but should the van be weight biased 54/46 front/rear the front axle load will already be at 1850, its maximum.
with the driver, passenger, kitchen and washroom all ahead of the rear axle thats a fair guess.
not an issue on the Peugeot heavy axles, although total payload obviously needs addressing and this then pushes the van into C1 license territory.
however, this van is advertised as 'the perfect 2+2'.
add two 50kg teenagers and, not only is the front axle blown but total MTPLM, too.....with no kit at all in the van.
the thing is, even if the van were on the Peugeot (or Fiat) heavy chassis, couples with teenage kids are of an age where its unlikely they have the C1 necessary to drive it even if it was upplated.
so they are stuck, not be able to use either a 3.5t (no payload) nor a 4.0t version (no license).
folk see White Van Man loading his vehicle to the gunwales and thinks its OK to do the same on his PVC motorhome....and salesmen dont make things clear that WVM doesnt carry a fridge/freezer, washroom, water tanks, loads of electricals, heaters, pumps, furniture etc, etc.....oh, and more people.
i think its really poor that these critical issues arent explained thoroughly and properly to prospective clients.
i realise its a minefield for thise who've never given 'weight' a thought but surely its the salesman's job to ensure the product is fit for the customer's purpose?

>> surely its the salesman's job to ensure the product is fit for the customer's purpose?


Yes, I'd agree.  And indeed, the law could well be on a purchaser's side if they buy a camper/motorhome and then find they can't use it.

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"It is a breach of the CPRs to engage in an 'unfair commercial practice'. A practice is unfair if it is either:
a 'misleading action' (it contains false or misleading information and is therefore untruthful, or if it deceives or is likely to deceive a consumer)
... or
a 'misleading omission' (it omits information that an average consumer needs to make an informed transactional decision)
... and this causes or is likely to cause an average consumer to take a different transactional decision."

Many motorhome dealers sail close to the wind on the misleading omission side, especially if their consumer is a first-time buyer of a motorhome.

Just about to call the dealer - and make some of the points in the previous posts and also the very detailed arguments in a private message from Chris (Bolero boy).  I'm of the opinion now that the vvan supplied is not fit for our purpose and will make that case to the salesman that sold us the van and to whom we described our "purpose" of extended travel in Europe with maximum isolation (i.e. max self sufficiency). II'll report back!

I've read that another way to confirm whether your Ducato chassis is the light or heavy model is to measure between two adjacent wheel studs. Light models measure 71mm and heavy models 78mm. I presume this relates to the relative axle sizes for each chassis type. Don't know whether this applies to Boxers but it would seem probable.

Fixer wrote:Although the automatic gearbox adds 50kg over the manual one, Autosleepers build the 6.4mtr Fiat vans on the L4 light chassis 

I would be very interested to know where you managed to get this info from? It's certainly not in any of their brochures and I don't believe any of the dealers know!

justlooking wrote:I've read that another way to confirm whether your Ducato chassis is the light or heavy model is to measure between two adjacent wheel studs. Light models measure 71mm and heavy models 78mm. I presume this relates to the relative axle sizes for each chassis type. Don't know whether this applies to Boxers but it would seem probable.

Light wheels typically look like this:



Heavy wheels typically look like this: