New Fairfrord on the Fiat Ducato Automatic

Hi,

We're excited about picking up our new Fairford on Wednesday. The handover will be a bit limited due to the restrictions so we've been reading all the manuals we can find for the vehicle. The dealer (Marquis Dorset) is only a few minutes away from our house and they kindly dropped of all of the manuals. The main booklet only describes the Peugot and all of the technical data for the max weights refer to that base vehicle. I will be asking the dealer if there is an addendum to the manual that detaills the Fiat version but I suspect that if they had had it they would have provided it. Looking on the AS owners pages https://www.auto-sleepers.com/owners there is nothing there on it. 

I also noted the manual is in two parts - the main AS manual and the Harmony manual. The information in the main manual is out of date and refers to a EC500 and I think we will be getting the EC700 (yes I've read all the posts about that!!). The manual is 2018 and there are other differences apparent between what we will be getting vs the manual but these are minor in nature and they can't be expected to keep the manual fully up to date for every small change. 

So I suspect I will be preparing my own "idiots guide" to the main operation of the vehicle and some check lists as well as stowage plans so we can find everything without too much hunting around. 

The main point of this topic though is to collect any information that is available specific to the Fiat variant so that this can be shared with others that have the Fiat.

Thanks,

Dave and Carole

Hi
   One of the differences will be in vehicle weight as the auto gearbox will be heavier than the manual. I would get onto the dealer/Autosleeper insisting that you get an up to date manual for your purchase having one two years old is not acceptable. The manual I got for my new motorhome was also out of date , the dealer insisting it was correctly supplied and that was all they had, it did not even include my model. I contacted the manufacturer and they eventually agreed it was the wrong one and the dealer ordered me one
Regards
Alan

Not much point insisting on an up to date manual if there isn't one. The latest handbook for the Fairford is the 2018. Until they do a reprint you'll have to accept it....

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Hi.  We picked up our new Warwick XL Auto on the fiat chassis at the end of August.  We have the manual which refers to the Peugeot and the EC500 too.  I downloaded the manual for the EC700 from the Sargent website, easy to find, so that was easily resolved.  We have had no problems with the system yet, and when we checked the software on the system we found it was already updated to the one other members have recommended, so fingers crossed.  We have thoroughly enjoyed the van, for the little time we have been able to use it between lockdowns and have 1500 miles on the clock.  The auto gearbox is brilliant (so much better than the robotised one on our previous van), the van is so much easier to drive.  The weight on the V5 in 3088 for our van so that leaves 412Kg - we just travel light - fill up with water on site, empty waste before leaving etc.  Enjoy your new van, have fun!

Robsand will the weight you quote include the awning if fitted and leisure battery or any other extras that Auto sleepers added

Be wary of height. The Fiat is taller than the Peugeot - just climbing into the cab tells you that. If you have hab aircon fitted as standard as we have, that will further increase the height. We asked our dealer for the exact height but I don’t actually believe the answer so will be assuming we need 3m clearance.

Mechanical breakdowns with a Fiat need a call to Fiat Camper Assist who will either arrange a visit from the RAC or have you take the van to a Fiat Professional garage.

Just checked V5 again and it is Mass in Service 3081kg.  Others with more experience in these matters may be able to comment, but I assume it includes everything on the base vehicle which I believe would include the awning and battery.  Have you got the Autosleeper price list and specification document (available to download from Marquis website under Brochures.  It quotes the Fairford Xl Mass In running Order as 3111kg (Warwick XL 3066kg).  Optional extras included by Marquis are  the Premium pack and winter pack which adds an extra 40kg and we have the air-conditioning unit (not sure why) which apparently weighs an extra 33kg!  So we do try to be careful and will visit a weigh bridge next year when loaded for a more extended trip, as we have about 340kg for everything else.  Manageable with care in loading.  (and we assume 3m clearance too, given the air con).

I physically measured my Sussex (Warwick) Duo , with Aircon (plus additional 2cm to be sure) it was 3.2m . That was a Dometic unit, Trumas may be slimmer.
The handbook quotes without Aircon at 2.6m. but earlier vans had 15" wheels, I believe 16" are now standard.

Don't forget to register you van on the Fiat Camper website, they'll keep you up to date including recalls - hopefully none. Enjoy your van. 
Rich

Although the automatic gearbox adds 50kg over the manual one, Autosleepers build the 6.4mtr Fiat vans on the L4 light chassis but the Peugeot is only available on the L4 heavy chassis which has a 40kg weight difference so you only lose 10kg for the automatic overall.
The Fiat is available as a cost option upgrade to the heavy chassis (different springs, bigger brakes and wheel spats fitted) which will then use 50kg of payload for the automatic gearbox but can be up plated to 4500kg gross if you have the C1 license.

Robnsand wrote:Just checked V5 again and it is Mass in Service 3081kg.  Others with more experience in these matters may be able to comment, but I assume it includes everything on the base vehicle which I believe would include the awning and battery.  Have you got the Autosleeper price list and specification document (available to download from Marquis website under Brochures.  It quotes the Fairford Xl Mass In running Order as 3111kg (Warwick XL 3066kg).  Optional extras included by Marquis are  the Premium pack and winter pack which adds an extra 40kg and we have the air-conditioning unit (not sure why) which apparently weighs an extra 33kg!  So we do try to be careful and will visit a weigh bridge next year when loaded for a more extended trip, as we have about 340kg for everything else.  Manageable with care in loading.  (and we assume 3m clearance too, given the air con).

Rob, a weighbridge visit is a must....
even 'filling on site' means (unless you fully drain every trip) travelling with some water (20ltr?) in the fresh tank and pipework, plus a full hot water boiler (another 10kg) so thats 30kg over the MIRO.
MIRO doesnt include OH either, nominal 75kg, nor any amount you are over the MIRO included 75kg.
This now puts you at 3286kg (payload 214kg) with nothing in it....
even in this state you could find that due to manufacturers allowed variations, 'your van' could actually weigh more than this....but then again, possibly less...
however, this is a tiny amount of capacity for anyone to manage with...
decide to do a few days away from campsites and add the rest of the tank and thats another 50kg evaporated.
then theres the 'everything else' you mention....this in invariably a very long list, even for those who 'travel light....or think they do.
I've quoted a list of carried items before but it really is easy to forget how much has to go in to make yourself comfortable (bedding, clothing, outdoor boots, coats), then to kit out the kitchen (pots, pans, kettles, toaster, cutlery, crockery, tinned and fresh food, wine, beer, tea and coffee etc), all the essential outdoor and support kit (tools, awnings, bikes, chairs, tables, electrical kit, any hobby kit etc, etc....)
these things (especially clothes and bedding) eat payload at a frightening rate
running any van with an effective MIRO of almost 3300kg will be a real trial to run at 3500kg.
if you have a C1 you may want to consider upplating...
good luck.

Cheers, yes, and thank you for your advice.  We are planning a trip to a weighbridge and will do so once things ease a bit next year.  Good advice.

Pages 8-1 and 8-2 of the handbook detail what is included in MIRO or not and what should be included (or deducted from) the user payload.

Paulmold wrote:Pages 8-1 and 8-2 of the handbook detail what is included in MIRO or not and what should be included (or deducted from) the user payload.

Paul, it aint a lot....90% fuel, no water at all, no passenger....even adding these (prior to any personal stuff) will reduce payload to the levels i quoted...
even brimming the fuel tank has effectively taken another 6-9kg depending on tank size.
also NEVER believe what the handbook (or a salesman) says about weights and payloads...there is only ONE way to understand the weight of the van.....weigh it.

Yes I read that and it's useful but my problem is the next two pages do not relate to the vehicle that I'm getting. I believe my driving license let's me drive up to 7 tons but if the chassis is overloaded I will be breaking the law. I will be asking the dealer about this on Monday.

One important difference is that the Fiat engine has a camshaft drive BELT which has to be changed every 6 years, while the Peugeot has a Ford engine with camshaft drive CHAIN which should last the life of the engine.

Sorry - posted twice - but not deliberately. Just Pritti crass thing to do.

Paulmold wrote:I physically measured my Sussex (Warwick) Duo , with Aircon (plus additional 2cm to be sure) it was 3.2m . That was a Dometic unit, Trumas may be slimmer.
The handbook quotes without Aircon at 2.6m. but earlier vans had 15" wheels, I believe 16" are now standard.

Paul is right with his figures...
a Fiat 'light chassis van' with 15" wheels is listed at 2590mm on the Malibu website, although the Fiat site actually says 2522mm...higher profile Camper tyres perhaps?
the 'heavy chassis' Peugeot Fairford on 16" wheels is listed on AS as 2640mm.
this definitely shows that a Fiat ordered for the Auto option 'should' be 5cm lower (notwithstanding TW's observations from his own comparison of the two...).
the Truma Aventa unit is quoted at 248mm high.
this 'should' equate to total aircon fitted heights of....
2842mm (Fiat, Light chassis, 15" wheels)
2892mm (Peugeot, Heavy chassis, 16" wheels)
Both will under 3m toll levies even with aircon.

bolero boy wrote:

Paulmold wrote:I physically measured my Sussex (Warwick) Duo , with Aircon (plus additional 2cm to be sure) it was 3.2m . That was a Dometic unit, Trumas may be slimmer.
The handbook quotes without Aircon at 2.6m. but earlier vans had 15" wheels, I believe 16" are now standard.

Paul is right with his figures...
a Fiat 'light chassis van' with 15" wheels is listed at 2590mm on the Malibu website, although the Fiat site actually says 2522mm...higher profile Camper tyres perhaps?
the 'heavy chassis' Peugeot Fairford on 16" wheels is listed on AS as 2640mm.
this definitely shows that a Fiat ordered for the Auto option 'should' be 5cm lower (notwithstanding TW's observations from his own comparison of the two...).
the Truma Aventa unit is quoted at 248mm high.
this 'should' equate to total aircon fitted heights of....
2842mm (Fiat, Light chassis, 15" wheels)
2892mm (Peugeot, Heavy chassis, 16" wheels)
Both will under 3m toll levies even with aircon.

Well there's a low bridge on the way to my house from the dealer which is 3.2m - if I get through there with the air con still intact at least I'll know it's less than 3.2m. I'm about to contact the dealer and ask about the weight and also the overall dimensions so I can make my crib card to keep behind the drivers visor as I did on my current van. We almost took out a toll booth barrier once - just averted at the last minute.

bolero boy wrote:
the 'heavy chassis' Peugeot Fairford on 16" wheels is listed on AS as 2640mm.

The highest point of the van is the TV aerial (I think). My AC adds only a few cm to the figure quoted by AS (less than 10cm).
My Warwick Duo with AC is 2725mm tall. I have the Truma Comfort which is the larger unit, the smaller eco unit is taller I think.

However, if I come to a height barrier of 3m I freeze rigid.  

i would ask the dealer to weigh the van (your van) in a known state for you...they have pads that the wheels sit on....this will give you what you need to know re remaining payload.
i run a 6.4 x 2.12 A class of similar dimensions to the Fairford and wanted to run it at 3.5t, so i got the dealer to weigh my van as part of the sale process.
as you have a C1 license it may be just as well, following the dealer weighing the van to confirm, to get them to upgrade prior to delivery.
my own van was plated at 3850 (1850 front and 2000 rear) and it was a simple job to return it to 3500.
i have a spreadsheet of the weight as reported by my dealer (known with the fitted packs, the level of fuel etc) along with the weights of the extras i was having fitted, my/OH weights, the weights if those items i listed upthread.
this allowed me to be fully confident that I could run it at 3500 (i also hold C1 so could upplate back to 3850 if ever infelt the need).
as it happens, when i weighed the van myself with all the above addiddions on board I was only a few kg out from my estimate.

pppppps......I would measure the low bridge!
good luck.

bolero boy wrote:i would ask the dealer to weigh the van (your van) in a known state for you...they have pads that the wheels sit on....this will give you what you need to know re remaining payload.
i run a 6.4 x 2.12 A class of similar dimensions to the Fairford and wanted to run it at 3.5t, so i got the dealer to weigh my van as part of the sale process.
as you have a C1 license it may be just as well, following the dealer weighing the van to confirm, to get them to upgrade prior to delivery.
my own van was plated at 3850 (1850 front and 2000 rear) and it was a simple job to return it to 3500.
i have a spreadsheet of the weight as reported by my dealer (known with the fitted packs, the level of fuel etc) along with the weights of the extras i was having fitted, my/OH weights, the weights if those items i listed upthread.
this allowed me to be fully confident that I could run it at 3500 (i also hold C1 so could upplate back to 3850 if ever infelt the need).
as it happens, when i weighed the van myself with all the above addiddions on board I was only a few kg out from my estimate.

pppppps......I would measure the low bridge!
good luck.

Good idea on them weighing - but I suspect it's too late to change the registration for a higher weight and I don't know if that will affect road tax or insurance. This van model has been around with Marquis for a while now so it's not a unique vehicle. What started me asking questions was the manual supplied ahead of gettiing the van only mentioned the Peugot and and that got me wondering. I will do the same with a spreadsheet and try and get a best guess on the extras we put on board.  I might need to lose a little weight myself as I'm 10kg over the "standard driver" weight!

The A-S Service Centre at Willersey should be able to provide you with the MIRO broken down by axle - they did for me.  This will give you the loading margins for each axle which are just as important as the loading margin for the vehicle as a whole and should influence where you put your load in the vehicle.  When you are fully loaded and visit a weigh bridge you will need to ensure that your axle masses are not exceeding their MTPLMs just as the mass of the vehicle as a whole is not exceeding its MTPLM.

just reading a thread on another forum about an AT 635SE where the owner was looking at fitting a towbar, bike rack and two ebikes.
the Miro at 3080 (no water) is very similar to the WXL being discussed above.
add water, OH and the rack etc and theres less than 200kg for absolutely everything that has to be taken with you.

XLWB 6.36m PVCs, despite having a small(ish) footprint, are not light vans, most only delivering about 250kg of real payload once a decent water supply and your partner are aboard. even then, any fitted packs and extras must also be deducted before getting to a true user availability...often closer to 200kg.

take care...

Well - I got the van yesterday. The dealer gave me this response when asked a few days before I picked it up.

 "The information that I have found is as follows: The motorhome is rated to 3500kg. The MIRO is 3217kg giving a total payload of 283kg. This is information that I have found on the internet but please do not rely on this. I will continue to try and find out exactly what the figure are. The height of the motorhome including the air conditioning unit is 2840mm."

During the handover I was then told that the weight they had given me is correct. I don't recall what they said about the height but in any case the low railway bridge on one route to my house is 2.8m clearance so I won't be going that way. 

Today I went to a local farrm that has an official and certified weighbridge. The ticket says 3400kg exactly.  I did fill the water and the fuel and there were some other items on board including my wife and a small dog and a few bottles of beer. Not much else. No chairs or table or awning or anyy of the numerous other items that will be loaded under normal connditions for us when we travel down to Greece hopefully inn April.

I don't see much option other than to replate and the dealer has said that this is not something they can get involved in but they did give me the name of a company that does this. 

I should have done more checking prior to purchase but other than this we are very happy with the van so far after 20 miles on the road and after owning for a full 24 hours. Probably need a bit longer to get fully aquainted.

Thanks for everyones contribution!