Side wall cracking in Tyres

Just been following the thread of the tyres pressures for the Symbol that mikemelson posted and thought I would comment on tyres as regards cracking in the side walls as have just replaced two on our Duetto because of quite bad cracking especially on the newest of the two which was made in 2006.
Cracking in the side walls was snagged as adviseries on the last mot but suggest that VOSA may possibly introduce tougher rules in the future which is not a bad thing.
The two tyres just replaced had loads of tread left but were badly cracked and obviously couldn't risk a blow out!
Our camper stands a lot and I know sun light starts to break down the rubber over time but we are hoping use the old much more in the future.

Tony& Mary

Recommended age for replacements (although no legal requirement at the moment) is quoted as anything from 5 years to 10 years with a suggested maximum, from many sources, of 7 years so your 2006 tyres were at their life's end.



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Oh how wise you were to replace the tyres!!  

Motorhomes are especially prone to this problem because:

A)  They are carrying a full load for most of the time.

B)  The are often left unprotected from UV attack for many months at a time; with the sun shining on only one side of the van.

In view of this I would double-check the other two tyres and the spare to see what condition they are in.

Also, if your van stands in the sun for any length of time it may be worthwhile considering these bits of kit.

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Best regards,

Thanks to Paulmold and Dutto for their comments on tyre cracking.
Very sensible and useful info.

Tony&Mary

I got a pair of these covers in black from dry suits on eBay 

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You can also apply a uv gel shine coat to your tyres which helps protects against uv damage and every few weeks  I use meguiars endurance tyre gel

It almost broke my heart to replace all the tyres on our M reg but low mileage Duetto because of severe sidewall cracking.  They were barely half worn but I'm certain it was the wise thing to do.  Even if a puncture doesn't cause a more serious incident the inconvenience of a road-side repair is worth minimising as far as possible.

On our old Talbot/Peugeot  based Sportsman the spare wheel was stored under the bonnet.  When I checked it after a Winter lay-up the tyre had completely disintegrated and I don't think it had ever been on the road.  I guess the heat from the engine had contributed to its demise.

Geoff

I echo [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the tyres should be no more than 5 years old.

In my opinion tyres older than 5 years should be an MOT failure as they attain the same properties as Teflon. 

I take part in car club track days and of the handful of incidents involving car and Armco  all bar one have involved old tyres and either a failure or loss of grip due to the rubber under the surface being rock hard due to UV and age.

It's an item that needs budgeting for in the overall running costs

I have spoken to Avon at length and it's possible to manufacture tyres that will have a durable life of 10 years but they are a fortune to manufacture but they recon if a law is introduced they will be viable to manufacture.

My 2p

Charles

Hi there,

Look on the bright side and find "The Silver Lining"!   

Assume that:

o  A tyre will do 40,000 miles before it wears out, but,

o  You have only travelled 20,000 by the time yours start cracking, however,

o  You got 30 miles per gallon for the 20,000 miles that you actually used the tyres.

With diesel at £6.36 a gallon (£1.40 a litre) you have saved £4,242 in diesel by NOT wearing them out!!  

Best regards,

Sorry to disagree with the prevailing view..but please consider the following.

The functional element of a tyre which gives it strength is the reinforcement which, these days, is generally steel. The outer layers of rubber sidewall have no particular strength: they merely cap the reinforcement and prevent damage when the tyre is 'kerbed'. Also think about the average use for the ubiquitous 8-ply van tyre and the degree of abuse it gets: up the kerb, down the other side, over brick ends on building sites etc. There must be a huge factor of safety built into van tyres in order to compensate for this, against which, in my opinion, a little bit of surface cracking is relatively insignificant. Now if the cracks have depth and coincide with the line where the tread adheres to the reinforcement then that's probably a different matter - you don't want the tread coming loose - but I've not seen that happen since remould days.

I have had two tyres fail, both of which were the original 195/70x 15 inch 97S 'large car' spec tyres which were, for some reason, original fit on the 270S Boxer in 1995. Both went square but in a controlled and obvious manner when fully loaded, at moderate speed and in particularly hot conditions. However since going to 102/104 8-ply I've had no problems whatsoever.

My feeling is that it is relatively easy for us to get paranoid about tyres and their life, but I suspect that there's many a good tyre gone prematurely to the recycling centre without real justification. The problem is that the residual safety of aged part-worn tyres cannot be proven, one way or another. Accordingly, it's down to your personal view and willingness to pay. But I shall be continuing to purchase quality brand tyres and run them well down over prolonged periods. Time will tell whether this is a wise policy. Watch this space!

Bartfarst

'Fraid I have to agree with Bartfast, the sidewalls are just to protect the carcass from moisture, UV etc.. much like the cover on a hydraulic hose.
As I've said before, I do wear tyres out unlike many motorhomers so I don't have the sidewall cracking problem. I'm certainly not going to dump tyres until they've worn down to my personal safety limits (greater than the MOTs).

Frank

Hi there,

Assuming that there are cracks in the tyre walls then how deep do they go?   

If they go deep enough to reach the wires then, with the preponderance of salted winter roads in the UK, the wires will rapidly rust away to nothing; just like they do when you see burned out tyre carcasses in the ashes of a bonfire!!    

Personally "Cracked" = "Change" regardless of age or tread depth.  

Best regards,
 
Ian

Dutto wrote:Hi there,

Assuming that there are cracks in the tyre walls then how deep do they go?   

If they go deep enough to reach the reinforcement then it's an MOT fail, unless they are very small cracks.

If they go deep enough to reach the wires then, with the preponderance of salted winter roads in the UK, the wires will rapidly rust away to nothing; just like they do when you see burned out tyre carcasses in the ashes of a bonfire!!  

Tyre carcasses on bonfires have been subjected to a great deal of heat and the characteristics of the metal will have changed, but I agree that if the cracks are that deep then the reinforcement will suffer, which is why it's an MOT failure of course.

Frank

Several years ago whilst looking under the RR, I noticed severe multiple cracking all around the suspension airbags, it looked SO bad that I panicked & went out & bought all 4, I changed them immediately.

Once off, the surfaces resembled 'elephant-skin', so I decided to cut them up to check how bad they were, surprise-surprise, I cut through with a nice new Stanley blade & they were like new inside, no steel, but a canvass like cross webbing in the rubber, the zillions of cracks went down to this webbing, so, it LOOKED bad & it worried me as I had visions of the car collapsing on one side & the possible repercussions, but it did in fact  have loads of life left. 
A few cracks in tyres don't concern me, but once I see them, I keep an eye out & check them prior to a journey.

Hi folks,

agree with all that has been said.  

If you are not using your van in the winter and you can park off road, take the wheels off and store in the garage or shed. This saves cracking due to UV and also flat spots when tyre is standing in one position all winter.

The added benefit is security, bit difficult to steal a van with no wheels.

Best regards, Mike  

A thing that I don't think has been mentioned on old tyres is that the rubber hardens over time. This is particularly noticeable in a hot climate, but still an issue in the UK climate. If one compares the look of a new tyre to one around ten years old (UK climate) one will notice that the old tyre is much shinier than the new one. Speaking from personal experience living and working for several years in the Middle East, tyres age within about three years there. As well as the side walls giving up, the rubber hardens to the extent that there is a very noticeable reduction in traction and grip. I don't have years of experience with motorhomes, but I do with classic cars. I have had to change all the tyres on my classic this year - the old tyres had lost most of their grip and traction, despite having plenty of tread left.

Mikebro

Thanks folks for all the input on cracking tyres.
Sorry for not responding sooner as have been away.

Sorry to raise an old topic but having been sceptical regarding the possibility of aged tyre failure, last week I glanced-over at our particularly static Harmony, complete with slightly crazed side walls, to see the front offside tyre, which sees the most sun, nearly flat. Fearing a side wall failure I put some air back in it (whilst not in line of fire if it went bang, I must add!) then I doused it in suds to determine the point of leakage or failure. Was it the sidewall or tread? I'm afraid not. Instead the rubber valve stem had failed at its root.

More food for thought!


Bartfarst

I changed my tyres last year ( 7 years old ) plenty of tread but not worth risking £30000 of kit for.

I changed to winter tyres (toyo HO7) but thats a different topic,

however, I did specify new valves and when I asked if metal valves would be better, I was told they give more problems than rubber valves, so rubber it was (3.5 Ton van).

Davy

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The picture above was taken of the rubber valve that had failed on a '55 Ford Ravena on a Motorway in Italy.  I have seen several similar failures of rubber valves fitted to Fords of your Era.  The Mk7 Transit onwards has metal sleeved valves.

Ford wouldn't do a recall but the original rubber valves were only rated to 60.9 psi.  They recommended they be replaced on highly loaded vehicles (like motor homes) with a metal sleeved valve rated at 101.5 psi.

If it was me I would be straight back for metal sleeved valves.

Current Peugeot, Mercedes and Ford all have metal sleeved valves as original fit.

Peter

TeamRienza wrote:
however, I did specify new valves and when I asked if metal valves would be better, I was told they give more problems than rubber valves, so rubber it was (3.5 Ton van).

Davy

Probably didn't have any metal valves in stock.



There is a thread on OutandAbout website re valves right now..

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Hi Peter, Slightly off topic,but relevent,That was a 55 vehicle,who is to know when the valve was last changed? Its recommended  that they are changed with tyre changes and its always been done on my tyre changes without asking.
I agree with fitting HP valves above 65 psi. Seems sensible.
regards

mike

That photo was taken in June 2007. It was the original tyre and valve.

Peter

Hi Peter, Are you sure that's a 1955 vehicle? that makes the tyre and valve 59 years old!  Maybe a record.
Unless someone like Dutto has had one longer!!  
maybe we are paranoid about tyres over 5 years old  being used.
I bet some caravan owners can beat that.  By the stories i have heard of long lasting tyres on Caravans.
Before 2000 i doubt if anyone was checking tyre age.

regards
mike

Hi Peter,
I had a caravan with cracked tyres but lots of tread left. I was driving on a motorway at 55m.p.h. in the rain when the tyre blew and did much damage to the bodywork. Luckily it was a lightweight folding caravan and a large car so I was able to stop safely. I went to the tyre depot and they told me the tyre was 7 years old and cracked tyres often blow. Since then I have always replaced cracked tyres no matter how much tread is left.
regards

Hi Stationerystill,  
                      With my scientific hat on   1) could that tyre have been under-inflated?
                                                         2) could a road object had caused damage?
                                                   and 3) was the other tyre the same age and OK.
 Why i say this is because most rubber i see on the road is tread rubber,if not all. mainly from HGV.
I have damaged two  tyres on seperate  instances by hard curb contact on the side wall, and the tyre has stayed up.
the sidewalls are very strong.
regards

mike