sluggish duetto

Due to my Nuevo languishing in the local Garage, I borrowed my sister's Ford based Duetto to take my grandaughter on a trip to the New Forest (to Sandy Balls campsite, which has changed big time since my last visit there some twenty odd years ago).
Very noticeable was the the time it took to reach a decent speed (and Im only talking 50mph) even on the flat, never mind uphill when a change down to 2nd gear was a necessity on even the shortest climb. Im sure this cant be the norm, can it?.
Ive worked out I was getting about 26mpg, which I didnt think was very good (going on what Dutto says he gets?) That's diesel, by the way
regards
Moira

ps On the plus side, it was quite nice ambling along and not feeling you're in a race to overtake everyone. Although it was a tad embarassing when I overtook a lorry three times, only for him to overtake me whenever we reached a small incline. When he waved as I overtook him the last time before heading off on the A34, Im not sure if it was a friendly ' getting to know each other' wave or a 'why dont you give it up, love' wave

Hi there, Ihave only had my petrol 2litre talbot express symphony since December 2012, but would suggest that your experience is perfectly normal.
Conal

my two litre tabot harmony is much faster even loaded.i would get it checked out to see if anything is amiss.

Dont know what year your Duetto is but when I had one (a 2002 model) it suffered a loss of power on hills but ok once you got it wound up, I thought the turbo had packed up but the local Ford dealer diagnosed that the inlet manifold had a hole in it and once replaced with a new one it was back to its old self and pulling well.
hope this is of some help.
Don

The original Mk.4 Transit based were a bit sluggish, but the ones fitted from the late 90's onward with a turbo weren't. Although I normally used to cruise at 60 in mine for fuel economy, it would exceed the motorway speed limit with ease on the very few occasions I needed it to.

If it's a Tdi model then I'd have it looked at, as it shouldn't be that low on power.

Tommy is a 1996 2.5 non turbo diesel Transit and what you are saying doesn't sound right.

As for the hills,and we have climbed many so far during this trip, we just take a run at them where possible or just bimble up where a run is not possible. No problem, if we have gained a que of traffic behind we just pull over and let them past at the first flat opportunity.

This said Tommy is still not as slow as the one you are talking about.......................have you considered that the Ford engine does need to be worked to get the most from it. Also the sound deadening in the Nuevo I would imagine is a lot better so you may feel that you are thrashing the Duetto when in fact you are hardly working it.

70+mph is possible where conditions allow but to many internal fixings rattle to make it enjoyable

This is just what we have discovered thus far. Tommy can keep a nice 60mph on the flat, and pre-emptive down shifts make hills easier.

Thank you for all your replies
I think its a mid 90's model, so it would seem it's pretty average for it's type. Although I drove my sister's last one quite often (which was a much older model) and that had a lot more 'go' in it.
Maybe I'll suggest she take in to her local Garage to get it checked over - after all, when I can walk to the top of the hill outside my home, quicker than she can drive it, something has to be not right, doesnt it?
I have to say I was really impressed with the amount of storage space inside the Duetto, though - only thing I didnt like was the toilet door opening out towards the front - I understand it's to provide showering/changing room, but does anybody actually use the shower?
regards
Moira

You seem to have made a decision, and rightly so but having been out in mine today('97 automatic ) and although not fast it will reach sixty in less than 1/3 of a mile and managed to push it to 75 before having to slow for a roundabout.
Didn't try it on any hills but am going away on Friday so will update this these if required.

Hi
Our 1996 Duetto is the 2.5 non turbo. I find it cruises fine at about 60mph. It will go faster, but I keep to this speed in the interest of economy. Some hills benefit from a run up where possible and this keeps a reasonable speed without having to change down. We have just returned from a trip to Cornwall and after nearly 900 miles have averaged just over 30mpg. In fact I checked it after the 310 mile trip down to Cornwall and it returned 33.2mpg. The average was brought down a bit by the narrow lanes and steep hills we encountered down there.
Its got 97000 on the clock and to my surprise still uses no oil.

Hi Blossom
You seem to have got a keeper, there
Perhaps my sister's one just needs a good service. She mostly just tootles back and forwards to work (grand all round trip of about 3 miles) with an alternate year trip to Aberdeen - I dont suppose all those short trips will do it a lot of good?
Moira

Probably all choked up and needs a damn good thrashing

Frank

You could just be right, there, Frank
Such a shame for it not to be used for what it was made for
Moira

Hi, we have a 1995 Duetto (Dougal) 31k this loves to chug along the open road at 60, drops a bit on the hills but I wouldn't say sluggish, my son inlaw a local mechanic says that this transit does however suffer from a lazy injector pump (springs have gone weak) and this can cause them to run sluggish, may be worth having that checked, hope it helps

Hi Paulwest55
Thank you for your comments, will pass that on to Lorna (who may end up being removed from the Forum, as she never posts anything )

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Hopefully (I've never posted a picture before) you will see a photo of the Duetto in question. I put the drive-away up on my own, with the very helpful comment from the gent on the next pitch (did I say gent? ) "Bet you wish you had a pop-up"
Moira

Our first van was a 96 Duetto, it too was very sluggish when we bought it, the problem stems from the "banana" inlet manifold, if you look under the bonnet and see what looks like a silver bunch of bananas arching across the top of the engine then you need to take it off and clean out the inlet tracts mainly number 3 if i remember rightly. The fault occurs because the exhaust gas recirculation meets the crankcase breather on number 3, so you have sooty exhaust gas meeting oily air, never a good mix and it subsequently sticks to the side of the inlet manifold, you effectively end up running on 3 cylinders as I did all round Scotland, never mind pee'd of lorry drivers i think i had half of Scotland ready to lynch me, the effect of cleaning it was quite a contrast, i hope this helps.

That sound like a good tip.

Is it as straight forward as you suggest? Do we need to procure replacement gaskets before hand? Does anything need resetting once re-assembled? Is it a job that can be done half way through our tour on a camp site or would you recommend leaving until we are back at base?

Hi Crumb
Thank you for your reply, that definately sounds a possibility

Tommy-D , you took the words right out of my mouth - well, nearly. I would have asked if it was just a case of taking the bunch of bananas off, cleaning them out and sticking them back on ? . Anything other than that would probably be beyond us (we always start a job/project by saying 'how hard can it be?' before ending up making a pig's ear of it )

regards
Moira

The job of taking the manifold off is fairly straight forward just a bit fiddly in places, I didn't need to change the gaskets but if theres a problem i would say they are easy to obtain, as far as doing the job on a campsite I would warn against that, mainly on the grounds of just how dirty the job is, when the sooty sludge starts to break down it gets everywhere make sure you are wearing gloves otherwise you'll be scrubbing your hands for weeks, the only extras you will need is some kind of tray and cleaning fluid maybe white spirits would be the best proprietry cleaning fluid, i suppose i'm lucky in having access to a cleaning tank.

Thanks for the tip. As Tommy seems to perform quite well, it is a job I may well have a go at when we have completed our tour

Also, if the van does mainly out-of-town mileage, it may be worth taking the complete EGR valve assembly off and blanking the openings. The valve only serves a useful function around town, and on mine it was opening when it shouldn't on motorways and high speed roads, making the van run poorly.

You will probably need two of something like this:

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You can also get them with notches instead of holes so that you only have to loosen the bolts, slip the plate in and tighten up again, though removing is better in that it makes access to the top of the engine a lot easier.

The EGR valve's presence is not required for the MOT, and you'll find that your inlet manifold will never clog up with oily soot again!

Have bookmarked this page for future reference,so thanks a million folks

this brings back memories of the late 90ties. 74 bhp could not pull the skin of a rice pudding.
Well that was a full loaded motohome i tried. I opted for the 2l turbo, much better.
regards
Mike

Over on the transit forums there is a lot of information on engine mods. We are surprised how well dougle goes but a bit more power would not go amiss on hills.

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Hi

When I had a Duetto I enjoyed reading the Transit Forum, and found that it had a lot of good advice and was often very amusing. Cable Ties, Gaffer Tape, and Baseball bats seemed to feature in it often.



Cheers
Andy

Not too surprised at the OP's comments re' 'sluggish'.

First of all if an original AS they are quite heavy vans. All the interior fittings weigh a fair bit, but then add a full tank of fuel, water tanks, awning, bike rack with box, and you are pulling some considerable weight. Mine is a 2000 reg Mk5 so with the 2.5TDi and the 'turbo' is a total joke and the 'banana' engine is possibly the worst Ford designed. Cruising at 55mph isn't an option.....it's a must because anything above that and your mpg will plummet.

My previous van was an old '93 Transit with direct injection. OK it was a SWB model and the fittings much lighter than AS, but that engine had some real poke. Cruise easily at 60 or 70mph and the engine would beg for more 'hammer' (once had it up to 95mph for a burst but wouldn't recommend it with any high top van!). On a trip it returned between 37-40mpg.

I believe the later 2.2TDCi engines fitted in the Mk6 on are much better engines though never having driven one, can only comment from what i've read and heard from owners.