Location of split charge relay

by Pop2013 Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:03 pm

Hi, we have a Nuevo II 2009 and the Domestic 3 way fridge has stopped working on 12v cooling circuit.
All fuses look ok.
Cooling Element is not getting hot.

Does anybody know where the split charge relay for the fridge is located - I want to check this before removing fridge.

Thanks

Paul

by ubuntu1 Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:53 am

It will most likely be the fridge element. They fail much more often than the relay. Its very easy for an engineer to test the element and then replace it.

by Pop2013 Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:10 am

Thanks - I hadn't thought of that. I'll get this looked at then and update as to how I get on.

Cheers
Paul

by Peter Brown Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:15 am

http://sargentshop.co.uk/epages/eshop328964.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/eshop328964/Categories/TechData/%22Product%20Information%22

Follow the link above to the Sargent EM50 unit. That is where the fridge relay and fuse for the 12v for the fridge heater are located - the fuse in the main PSU is for the fridge indicators and control 12v.

The fridge heater is very sensitive to voltage, mine recently suffering from a poor connection at the fridge end - behind the top fridge vent - you could actually see brown discolouration where the pin had been getting hot.

Peter

by Fat Albert Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:42 pm

Pop2013

Are you checking the fridge with the engine running BUT before the vehicle has moved forward. I ask this because the fridge/step circuit is activated by a motion sensor. think_smiley_46

If the 2009 Nuevo is wired the same way as a 2008 the 12v fridge and the rear step feed from the same circuit therefor a quick check can be carried out by checking if the step will auto retract when the vehicle is started and driven forward (The front wheel must rotate at least one turn in order for the motion sensor to activate the circuit). If the step retracts there should also be power to the fridge - if the step does not retract the split charger could be at fault or maybe just have a poor connection. You should find the relay amongst a tangle of wires at the base of the B pillar. smile!

by Peter Brown Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:59 pm

The fridge and step are operated by seperate relays in the same unit. The relays are operated by the DSR feed from the engine alternator - when the engine has started and is up to speed.

There is NO motion detector.

Peter

by inspiredron Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:04 am

Peter Brown wrote:The fridge and step are operated by seperate relays in the same unit. The relays are operated by the DSR feed from the engine alternator - when the engine has started and is up to speed.

There is NO motion detector.

Peter

I agree with Peter as far as motion sensor is concerned. On my 2012 Lancashire the step retracts as soon as the engine starts and before I move. At the same time the Sargent panel beeps and habitation electrics switch off.

by Fat Albert Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:36 am

Sorry Peter I have to disagree. I spent ages trying to trace the absent 12v feed to the fridge/step before finaly ringing Willersley. It was they who told me of its existence. Apparently its there in case you start the engine whilst someone is still standing on the step. On my own vehicle when the engine is started the fridge does not switch on nor the step retract no matter how long the engine is allowed to run. Move forward a few feet and the step will retract and the supply to the fridge is restored. smile!

by burlingtonboaby Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:30 am

Fat Albert wrote:Sorry Peter I have to disagree. I spent ages trying to trace the absent 12v feed to the fridge/step before finaly ringing Willersley. It was they who told me of its existence. Apparently its there in case you start the engine whilst someone is still standing on the step. On my own vehicle when the engine is started the fridge does not switch on nor the step retract no matter how long the engine is allowed to run. Move forward a few feet and the step will retract and the supply to the fridge is restored.

Same setup on my 09 Nuevo es, may have changed on newer vans scratch head

Boaby

by Peter Brown Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:39 am

I've had three coachbuilt AS vans built in 2005, 2008 and 2011 and worked for 40 years as an electrical engineer. In all of the vans the 12v fridge operation was controlled either by the ignition switch or the alternator output as was the step operation. I modified the circuitry on the 2008 model to improve the retraction operation of the step. I've just read a 2009 Nuevo handbook and it confirms the fridge and step operation as I've just described.

As two seem certain that their is a motion detector involved, could you please post a copy of the handbook instructions, a circuit diagram or some photographs of the device for my information?

For general information I should mention that over the years the location and construction of the split charge, fridge and step relays has changed from discrete units located under the bonnet or in the habitation area, through several stages to current total integration in the Sargent PSU and EM50 unit installed in coachbuilt vans.

Peter

by burlingtonboaby Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:20 pm

Peter Brown wrote:I've had three coachbuilt AS vans built in 2005, 2008 and 2011 and worked for 40 years as an electrical engineer. In all of the vans the 12v fridge operation was controlled either by the ignition switch or the alternator output as was the step operation. I modified the circuitry on the 2008 model to improve the retraction operation of the step. I've just read a 2009 Nuevo handbook and it confirms the fridge and step operation as I've just described.

As two seem certain that their is a motion detector involved, could you please post a copy of the handbook instructions, a circuit diagram or some photographs of the device for my information?

For general information I should mention that over the years the location and construction of the split charge, fridge and step relays has changed from discrete units located under the bonnet or in the habitation area, through several stages to current total integration in the Sargent PSU and EM50 unit installed in coachbuilt vans

.
Peter. i have sent you a P.M
Boaby

Peter

by CC Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:40 pm

Fat Albert wrote:Move forward a few feet and the step will retract and the supply to the fridge is restored.

Our Nuevo works in this way too.... Our step won't retract automatically until the vehicle moves and the warning buzzer sounds. Fridge also does not operate on 12v until moving.

CC

by burlingtonboaby Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:18 pm

CruizingComet wrote:
Fat Albert wrote:Move forward a few feet and the step will retract and the supply to the fridge is restored.

Our Nuevo works in this way too.... Our step won't retract automatically until the vehicle moves and the warning buzzer sounds. Fridge also does not operate on 12v until moving.

CC

Its all there on page 7-13, Fridge and step circuits in the Peugeot Nuevo/Nuevo es Owners manual (X250)

Boaby

by Peter Brown Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:20 pm

My mystery part solved.

For a period of time a few years ago, before settling on Sargent as a supplier of electrical systems, some vans had a system supplied by MES (motor cycle electrical systems) of Warwick. The system had a speed sensor that triggered certain functions when the vehicle reached 2-3 mph.

I've called the firm, they don't have a technical web site and the 'man who knows' was not in today but they did confirm that they used to supply AS with wiring harnesses etc.

I would be very pleased to know which vans had this system installed and to see any technical information and circuit diagrams relating too it.

Peter

by Fat Albert Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:36 pm

Peter
If I recall correctly the system takes its motion feed from the Peugeot electrics and is not speed related but motion related. One revolution of the front wheel will trigger the feed. smile!

by njr001 Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:43 pm

I can confirm that my 2009 Symbol ES which has a MES control panel that the step does NOT retract until the vehicle moves rather than when the engine is started. I haven't posted enough to send a pm, however I am happy to email the circuit diagram as supplied with the vehicle - but it is not that comprehensive.

Nick

by Peter Brown Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:20 am

njr001 wrote:I can confirm that my 2009 Symbol ES which has a MES control panel that the step does NOT retract until the vehicle moves rather than when the engine is started. I haven't posted enough to send a pm, however I am happy to email the circuit diagram as supplied with the vehicle - but it is not that comprehensive.

Nick

I haven't found any info on the MES system in any of the handbooks AS post on line (but haven't checked them all). I've sent you a PM with my e-mail address and hope you can access it.

Peter

by Pop2013 Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:44 pm

Bit the bullet, got a new element, currently touring Cornwall and all is cool. Didn't have time to seek further solutions etc but all working now. Thanks for all replies.

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