Adblue Remap

palette wrote:I think it's just a very stronge detergent, I've just noticed one bottle is enough for four fills, whoops.

If using a bulk can as opposed to a pump I wonder whether dosing the can (canister?) might be a better way?

AutoSleepy_Don wrote:

CC wrote:
Jimmy at O’Rileys Autos says the only time he sees problems with Adblue systems is when people wait till the Adblue warning comes up on the dash or when they let it run right low, his advice is to top it up regular & says if you do this you won’t see these kind of issues

Problem with that is AdBlue has a shelf life and if you are not doing many long trips.

That’s true but I think it all depends how it’s been stored… Jimmy at O’Rileys tells you never to buy it from petrol stations for this reason where it sits out in sunshine & all sorts of other conditions, shelf life is 12 months generally & typically usage will be 1ltr for every 600 miles so if you’re using your vehicle regularly it shouldn’t really be a problem.

For those talking about additives to prevent crystallisation I use this additive by Forte & have had no issues, wynns do one as well. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I ordered a bottle of the Wynn's anti-crystallising potion, which has just arrived. It says on the bottle "1 bottle = 1 Adblue tank", and in smaller print "treats 45 -75 litres". Sevel Adblue tanks are I think about 15 litres, with a top up warning at 5 litres left? So if topping up with 10 litres you need say 1/5th to 1/7th of the bottle.



The bottle spout is clearly designed to fit into the Adblue filler, but the bottle is black and opaque (to keep out the light?) with no gauge or other way of measuring the dose. So just a random dollop then?

It's all a bit awkward therefore to dose reasonably accurately, particularly if filling at a pump. A measuring jug won't work.

It's certainly not an impressively packaged product so far. Next time I will look for a bottle with some means of measuring the dollop.

However I will save the old bottle. Cut the bottom off and it should make a handy funnel for when those Adblue can fillers are too short, or for dosing with anti-crystallant from a conventional bottle or measure. Does the Forte stuff have a spout?

Since reading about this I now get inundated with remap adverts on FB to get rid of Adblue and DPF filters.

I didn't post to moan about FB but to highlight how many companies were offering remapping that the OP was referring to in his opening post .

The Bargee wrote:I ordered a bottle of the Wynn's anti-crystallising potion, which has just arrived. It says on the bottle "1 bottle = 1 Adblue tank", and in smaller print "treats 45 -75 litres". Sevel Adblue tanks are I think about 15 litres, with a top up warning at 5 litres left? So if topping up with 10 litres you need say 1/5th to 1/7th of the bottle.



The bottle spout is clearly designed to fit into the Adblue filler, but the bottle is black and opaque (to keep out the light?) with no gauge or other way of measuring the dose. So just a random dollop then?

It's all a bit awkward therefore to dose reasonably accurately, particularly if filling at a pump. A measuring jug won't work.

It's certainly not an impressively packaged product so far. Next time I will look for a bottle with some means of measuring the dollop.

However I will save the old bottle. Cut the bottom off and it should make a handy funnel for when those Adblue can fillers are too short, or for dosing with anti-crystallant from a conventional bottle or measure. Does the Forte stuff have a spout?

I added the Anti Chrytalliser to the adblue container before filling the tank, I still added too much though. Plus any adblue left over is protected from chrytallising.

I’m a bit late to this party so apologies. 
So are we now saying that an additive is now also recommended in addition to the Adblue? I’ve just been filling up when the warning comes on (and topping up before the 10L container goes out of date) and all has been fine to date.
Someone please explain in layman’s terms what to do? Is this additive really necessary?

v8oholic wrote:Isn't it. I don't know why the UK rollout of pumps seems to be non-existent.

It's because here, shops can charge over £2 a litre for it. In Europe it is about 60c (call it 50p) a litre. We are grasped firmly between the goolies while they rifle our wallets. I did get a 10l bottle from Aldi here for £12.50 which is far better than the likes of Halfords or your friendly neighbourhood petrol station. I tried a truck stop but they wouldn't serve non trucks.
It's the same with LPG. - only of course it costs more.

Dbvwt wrote:I’m a bit late to this party so apologies. 
So are we now saying that an additive is now also recommended in addition to the Adblue? I’ve just been filling up when the warning comes on (and topping up before the 10L container goes out of date) and all has been fine to date.
Someone please explain in layman’s terms what to do? Is this additive really necessary?

Who knows? I am always suspicious of potions in bottles, but I have seen how Adblue crystallises, and I can imagine what it might do to reservoirs, pipes and components, particularly in vehicles which are not on the road every week, so I bought some of the potion, which I am yet to administer.

I do wonder however whether one should be looking at the quality of the Adblue. All the talk here has been about price. What about quality? Do the more expensive brands include anti-crystallising additives perhaps? Is there a brand with a longer tank life? I guess the overall problem might just be that SCR systems and the Adblue were originally designed for commercial vehicles with a consistent regular throughput, also perhaps cars, but our vans stay parked a lot of the time.

I was in a Mercedes commercial dealer in France with my Sprinter and I looked round the back of the dealership where there were Sprinters in various stages of being crashed. Indeed the Adblu tank on one was all crystallised.
I have read somewhere else about buying 'quality' Adblu, the only definite thing I can say is that Carlube Adblu varies from £24.99 to £9.99 at one stroke of the Google search for Adblu. Same brand, same pouring spout etc.
Best get a Euro5 camper that doesn't need it. Or even a Fiat camper where they managed Euro6 without using Adblu.
Or a pre-emissions camper that doesn't need any emissions stuff and if it goes wrong you can fix it. Going by the false diagnoses by garages doing what the computer says instead of knowing what is actually wrong when false alarms come up on the dashboard costing thoushands of pounds in wasted money, I theorise that it will be cheaper to pay the odd £100 fine than run a new camper.

I'm thinking of downgrading to a Euro 5 non wet belt van. I've seen the potential grief down the tracks

Baggiecamper wrote:I'm thinking of downgrading to a Euro 5 non wet belt van. I've seen the potential grief down the tracks

By  'non wet belt ' van do you mean someone makes engines with rubber belts in the sump oil? I know Ford Ecotec engines are like this and duly disintegrate when the rubber dissolves, as it inevitably will. They (Ford) should be shot.
Is there a camper base vehicle with this type of engine?

Back to the subject, I bought my Bourton (used) with just over half a tank of adblu on the gauge (it's a Mercedes Sprinter). A year later, and 6000 miles, I felt the need to replenish it. So I guess it will go 12,000 miles from a full tank. There were no signs of crystallisation and no difficulties filling it from a 10 litre container (£12.50) from Aldi

Just wanted to add to the conversation as have a 2019 Peugeot 2.0 van and I have recently had 2 adblue errors pop up on the dashboard. First was Check Adblue System with an Amber engine management light staying on, then after a couple of stops and starts (after reading up that I was safe to continue driving at that stage) I then got the same plus Check Engine.

Did a lot of looking into it and found that there are numerous potential problems with Adblue and most of them require a tank replacement. Some can be down to a circuit board failure and others can be down to the pump or level sensor, or a hearing circuit which are apparently all within the tank. 

I filled the tank to see if it happened to be empty and it took approx 7 litres. Lights still came on. Also put some forte anti-crystal in and left for a couple of days, same messages. Apparently when the message comes on the tank shuts down so won’t pump anything through or try to get itself working again,
Needs a reset kind of think with suitable ODB equipment. Did a check with an ODB reader and got the error P20E8 Reductant Pressure Too Low. Spoke to the dealer and Peugeot customer service as was speaking to them about another issue, Peugeot said it’s very much likely to be the tank as all the ones they see they generally end up replacing it and immediately offered me 70% off the tank part itself. Went to the dealer and they said that the pump is giving intermittent pressure, they reset it and since then I’ve not had an error pop up in approx 100 miles so maybe the forte plus the extra 7 litres and a reset has worked for now. Since then Peugeot have offered 100% for the tank parts contribution so likely going to get it replaced whilst that offer is there.

I understand that nox sensor can fail and the Adblue injector itself can also block and needed cleaning (warm water apparently perfect for the job).

Just thought I’d add some of my findings to the topic

I’m planning on asking Peugeot customer services if they agree with using the anti-crystal fluid. The dealer couldn’t recommend anything (I have a feeling it’s good for business for them to fail!!). 2.5 hours labour to fit a new one, 1 hour diagnosis already paid (£120)

It is interesting that the messages haven’t come back on yet… 

I read that after I think 30miles of driving with the adblue failure message, you get a mileage countdown and you can’t start the engine after that point!!

For background info, I filled up with 1 bottle from Halfords the first time, didn’t fill up well at all so filled up at pumps since then, filled it used it. 32k miles over 5 years. I do wonder if them being stood is an issue as am now aware it has an expiry…. Think owners deserve some advice to stop the expensive repairs and the worry of the countdown then no start. Also heard as the system is designed for adblue if you don’t get it fixed you can get other problems eg DPF or EGR?? But not 100% on that. So thinking it’s best to get it repaired currently

I think if I ever change vans again to a newer one I will make sure it doesn't have adblu. Seems to me that unless you live in a "We are out to fine you drivers as much and as often as we can" zone, the best thing to do is get a Euro4 non-adblu van. I think Euro5 don't have adblu either, and Fiat for a short while even did Euro6 engines without it.

With all these incompetent garages charging £100 for false diagnoses of faults, then an average of £500 (in my case several times at different garages) for changing the wrong parts just because The Computer says that part is faulty, then eventually by means of 'let's try this and see if it works' repairs that you have to pay for, your best bet is to get a well built old smoky diesel and just pay the occasional £100 donation to the Mayor's Christmas Party Fund.

AdBlue is a 32.5% solution of urea (which is a solid) dissolved in deionised water and will start to crystallise at temperatures below -10C. It does have a long shelf life but urea does decompose slowly in solution over extended time and if it gets contaminated. The ideal conditions for crystal growth are low temperatures and still conditions so it makes good sense to add an anticrystallisation additive like Wynns or similar for winter storage. Although I don’t bother in summer. It’s not really needed in a vehicle that’s used regularly where the solution gets well agitated but for winter storage, I would use an anticrystal additive. These are usually a mixture of two or more chemicals that inhibit crystal formation and stop crystals growing if they do start to form. The better ones also include a small amount of fungal inhibitor. The action is similar to the chemicals used to prevent diesel fuel starting to form waxes although they are different actual chemicals and can’t be interchanged. A case can be made, as already noted, for keeping the tank relatively full to help prevent and solids crystalising out on the wetted surfaces. Our Boxer van doesn’t have a AdBlue level gauge on the dash but the OBD data can be read and this does give the actual tank fill level in litres. I leave a cheap Bluetooth OBD dongle plugged in the port all the time so I can read the level amongst the other data.
I always use a reputable brand of AdBlue as cheaper brands stand less chance of having proper quality controls in place and may well use less pure Urea which can lead to crystallisation and corrosion issues.
How do I know this - because I was an industrial chemist who used to formulate fuel and motor additives.
PS Adblue is needed to comply with Euro6 emmissins control adn you can be fined if you remove the emmissins controls - it will also effect your warrenty and maybe even your insurance as it may be considered as  an illegal and undeclared modification.

I haven't previously worried about the level over winter. It was just whatever it happened to be when the touring season was up, and no issues, even when almost at the warning light level. However this time as a precaution I filled it from a pump before leaving Germany (81p a litre), even though it was only 5.52 litres, so the light hadn't yet come on.

I go through about 26 litres per year on average. I wonder if low mileage is a factor when people have problems.

clarkescribe wrote:I leave a cheap Bluetooth OBD dongle plugged in the port all the time so I can read the level amongst the other data.

Can you share which dongle you use?

If a problem has been fixed, clearing the code is not necessary. They are required to be self-clearing provided the problem doesn’t reoccur in a certain number of engine restarts in conjunction with journeys over a certain (fairly short) distance. I’ve had two P11AB codes (boost pressure sensor) with associated engine light warnings in my 29,000 miles, which have cleared themselves within a day or so. Obviously a sensor glitch or an imperfect connection somewhere.

v8oholic wrote:If a problem has been fixed, clearing the code is not necessary. They are required to be self-clearing provided the problem doesn’t reoccur in a certain number of engine restarts in conjunction with journeys over a certain (fairly short) distance. I’ve had two P11AB codes (boost pressure sensor) with associated engine light warnings in my 29,000 miles, which have cleared themselves within a day or so. Obviously a sensor glitch or an imperfect connection somewhere.

You can bet your sweet little bippy (you have to be a certain age to know what that means) that the engine warning light will not be on when you drive it to the MOT, but it will when come on when they do the test.
Don't ask me how I know. . . . . the result was I lost about £1000 selling the car because it had an intermittent light and no MOT. Later I discovered the fault was a £50 sensor.

clarkescribe wrote:[size=15]The OBD readings include how many litres of AdBlue remains. The OBD scanner I use is an iCAR PRO SCAN Bluetooth 4.0 ELM 327 OBD2 Car Diagnostic Scanner for Android and iOS cost £12.50 off eBay (I see it’s now increased to £15!) and coupled it with a free app called Car Scanner on my iPad.

So you think "Urea fluid remaining" is the level of AdBlue in the tank.
Yes it makes sense, AdBlue contains urea.

I have long believed the van had a sensor for the AdBlue level, but just doesn't show it on the dash.
I have noticed that if I let the level fall enough to the point when it gives me a mile by mile count down, then the tank level is shown for a second the first time I switch the ignition on.