Kitchen sink waste failure
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Kitchen sink waste failure
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Having read how the joints in the waste pipe for the kitchen sink are simply a push fit and prone to come apart, my intention was to fix them securely. @glynelock even included a how-to note to fixing the problem in his Kemerton Improvement thread. You’ll know where this is leading …
I didn’t get round to it and we discovered yesterday evening while on a campground in Austria that the sink had emptied itself into the cupboard below. It could have been worse, it was fairly clean water, no cooking grease, and much of it was soaked up by the hidden upholstery and heating duct lagging behind the cupboard. It’s mostly dried out overnight.
It was the first 90-degree fitting that failed, with the vertical section of pipe below it dropping out under gravity, movement and weight of water. As widely reported on here, these fittings are an accident waiting to happen, held together by little more than blind faith.
Using a block of wood screwed to the cabinetry and a cable tie, I fettled a temporary clamp to keep the pipe section and the fitting under compression. I’m confident it will hold until we get home in a few weeks and I can make a permanent fix.
On the Kemerton XL the habitation electrics are at the base of the sink cupboard but fortunately no water had caused any issues there. While checking out the cabling for ingress I discovered a cut end of mains cable. We’re not on EHU so I can’t check if it’s live, but it’s poor practice not to terminate it safely, which I now have. The previous owner of the van had made no mods to the 230V system so I assume this is how AS had left it.
Hopefully a lesson for those of you with similar kitchen plumbing!
Tim
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Having read how the joints in the waste pipe for the kitchen sink are simply a push fit and prone to come apart, my intention was to fix them securely. @glynelock even included a how-to note to fixing the problem in his Kemerton Improvement thread. You’ll know where this is leading …
I didn’t get round to it and we discovered yesterday evening while on a campground in Austria that the sink had emptied itself into the cupboard below. It could have been worse, it was fairly clean water, no cooking grease, and much of it was soaked up by the hidden upholstery and heating duct lagging behind the cupboard. It’s mostly dried out overnight.
It was the first 90-degree fitting that failed, with the vertical section of pipe below it dropping out under gravity, movement and weight of water. As widely reported on here, these fittings are an accident waiting to happen, held together by little more than blind faith.
Using a block of wood screwed to the cabinetry and a cable tie, I fettled a temporary clamp to keep the pipe section and the fitting under compression. I’m confident it will hold until we get home in a few weeks and I can make a permanent fix.
On the Kemerton XL the habitation electrics are at the base of the sink cupboard but fortunately no water had caused any issues there. While checking out the cabling for ingress I discovered a cut end of mains cable. We’re not on EHU so I can’t check if it’s live, but it’s poor practice not to terminate it safely, which I now have. The previous owner of the van had made no mods to the 230V system so I assume this is how AS had left it.
Hopefully a lesson for those of you with similar kitchen plumbing!
Tim
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
_________________
Previously symbol-bath
1996 - Autosleeper Symphony 2010 - Autosleeper Symbol 2018 - Autosleeper Kemerton 2023 - Autosleeper Kemerton XL (Fiat)
Kemerton-bath- Donator
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Posts : 1174
Joined : 2013-01-06
Member Age : 65
Location : Bath
Auto-Sleeper Model : Kemerton XL (Fiat)
Vehicle Year : 2020
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
Had the same issue on our WXL: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Used that self bonding plumbing repair tape off amazon and its been fine since, so would recommend that stuff. Did similar to you with cable ties as well. Absolutely trash design.
Used that self bonding plumbing repair tape off amazon and its been fine since, so would recommend that stuff. Did similar to you with cable ties as well. Absolutely trash design.
DeeBee- Member
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Posts : 81
Joined : 2022-06-22
Location : Derbyshire
Auto-Sleeper Model : Warwick XL
Vehicle Year : 2022
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
Hi Tim
I did say to you to do the mod I did as I did not want you to have this come apart .there is nothing supporting any of the pipe and I move the pipe to secure with the p clip as per picture and yes there is a mains cable just cut .I did post about this as well[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Picture before and after
The flexible pipe I also secured with a tie as can be seen in the picture
I did say to you to do the mod I did as I did not want you to have this come apart .there is nothing supporting any of the pipe and I move the pipe to secure with the p clip as per picture and yes there is a mains cable just cut .I did post about this as well[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Picture before and after
The flexible pipe I also secured with a tie as can be seen in the picture
glyne lock- Member
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Posts : 1810
Joined : 2019-10-18
Location : taunton
Auto-Sleeper Model : kemerton xl
Vehicle Year : 2019
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
I'm getting the message, it's an accident waiting to happen.
The gain access to this area what's needed please?
I see at the back panel above the lowest shelf (just above the PSU) there are 4 plastic caps, once levered off you gain access to the turn buckles, presumably these will release the rear back panel? The two top shelves look to have only 2 front fixings covered by vinyl trim circles, so are each of the two top shelves supported at their rears by vertical back panels? The depth of our lower shelf is about 20cm less than the two shelves above. Should I be removing the two top shelves for access?
Is this all consistent with what others have in their Kemerton XL,s?
The gain access to this area what's needed please?
I see at the back panel above the lowest shelf (just above the PSU) there are 4 plastic caps, once levered off you gain access to the turn buckles, presumably these will release the rear back panel? The two top shelves look to have only 2 front fixings covered by vinyl trim circles, so are each of the two top shelves supported at their rears by vertical back panels? The depth of our lower shelf is about 20cm less than the two shelves above. Should I be removing the two top shelves for access?
Is this all consistent with what others have in their Kemerton XL,s?
Relaxez-Vous- Member
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Posts : 1104
Joined : 2019-08-10
Location : Yorkshire
Auto-Sleeper Model : Kemerton XL
Vehicle Year : 2019
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
R V
the mod helper man is back to help again
the 4 plastic blanks need to be removed for the panel between the shelves at the back
then remove the 4 screws .use a screwdriver to pull the back panel out
next before you glue any joints reposition so the pipe is by the side panel and sort a p clip to secure the pipe from dropping down as in my picture .
when this is sorted as to the new position you remove from the elbow joint at the back at the top that comes in the hole in the unit to the bottom of the sink.
now mark all the joints with a marker pen so they get glued in the correct place
all the joints are glued other then the joint on the elbow at the back of the unit pipe that comes in to the sink so the section can be removed if required
the flexible pipe joint has a tie put round it to now put a tie to the screw as in my picture this stops this dropping down and coming off
please note this is a kemerton xl mod
this is shown on my kemerton xl improvement post
the mod I have shown for the sealing the rubber at the bottom of the screen IS VERY IMPORTANT TO DO. the van I have just done now had a dry engine black cover and I hope I have saved the owner any damage to the engine parts that had been getting wet
the mod helper man is back to help again
the 4 plastic blanks need to be removed for the panel between the shelves at the back
then remove the 4 screws .use a screwdriver to pull the back panel out
next before you glue any joints reposition so the pipe is by the side panel and sort a p clip to secure the pipe from dropping down as in my picture .
when this is sorted as to the new position you remove from the elbow joint at the back at the top that comes in the hole in the unit to the bottom of the sink.
now mark all the joints with a marker pen so they get glued in the correct place
all the joints are glued other then the joint on the elbow at the back of the unit pipe that comes in to the sink so the section can be removed if required
the flexible pipe joint has a tie put round it to now put a tie to the screw as in my picture this stops this dropping down and coming off
please note this is a kemerton xl mod
this is shown on my kemerton xl improvement post
the mod I have shown for the sealing the rubber at the bottom of the screen IS VERY IMPORTANT TO DO. the van I have just done now had a dry engine black cover and I hope I have saved the owner any damage to the engine parts that had been getting wet
glyne lock- Member
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Posts : 1810
Joined : 2019-10-18
Location : taunton
Auto-Sleeper Model : kemerton xl
Vehicle Year : 2019
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
The same happened with my Nuevo. All I had to hand was duck tape to hold the push fit pipes together which did the job and still does.
Caraman- Member
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Posts : 3783
Joined : 2019-04-19
Location : SALISBURY
Auto-Sleeper Model : Nuevo
Vehicle Year : 2019
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
Tim
So a picture of the mains cable that goes to the back of the left unit but is not connected to my ec500
This could be for a item that is fitted as a extra and could be the item that goes on the roof light[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
To any person reading what to do please do the job as I have explained and with the correct glue .if you going to do a mod do it to last and not a untidy temp mod.
Cleaning off the tape takes me longer to put faults right for people to then secure and glue the joints with the correct glue
So a picture of the mains cable that goes to the back of the left unit but is not connected to my ec500
This could be for a item that is fitted as a extra and could be the item that goes on the roof light[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
To any person reading what to do please do the job as I have explained and with the correct glue .if you going to do a mod do it to last and not a untidy temp mod.
Cleaning off the tape takes me longer to put faults right for people to then secure and glue the joints with the correct glue
glyne lock- Member
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Posts : 1810
Joined : 2019-10-18
Location : taunton
Auto-Sleeper Model : kemerton xl
Vehicle Year : 2019
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
Thanks Glyne. We're in Craster Northumberland at the moment, when we get back I've a few other things to sort out like a deceased relative's car.
That extra USB mod of yours is brill, thanks.
That extra USB mod of yours is brill, thanks.
Relaxez-Vous- Member
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Posts : 1104
Joined : 2019-08-10
Location : Yorkshire
Auto-Sleeper Model : Kemerton XL
Vehicle Year : 2019
glyne lock likes this post
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
I don't post every thing I have done but items that will help improve the camper for others.
yes the usb has been a great mod for myself and clearly from your thanks has worked good for you
yes the usb has been a great mod for myself and clearly from your thanks has worked good for you
glyne lock- Member
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Posts : 1810
Joined : 2019-10-18
Location : taunton
Auto-Sleeper Model : kemerton xl
Vehicle Year : 2019
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
Thanks Glyne, we're back home briefly before heading off next week to Keswick. Your USB socket mod in a Kemerton XL just places a phone charging socket in such a convenient location.
Your mod to add extra insulation into the rear doors I felt undoubtable helped maintain our comfort in the back when the temperature dropped when we were staying in Northumberland this week, and off EHU.
The sliding door I haven't yet tackled, the insulation surely needs beefing up big time, and the rattles from the blind need to be finally sorted as many have complained about.
I bought some more plastic pipe glue in B&Q Wallsend today for your under sink mod, my previous glue pot had done off and so too thick.
P-clips though, what size to secure the waste water pipe, what size of pipe did A-S fit? It's a fine line here, If I were fitting a P-clip from your photos, I ask did it grip your waste pipe, or should you have got for a bigger size of P-clip?
I'm not happy with my repair of the grey water pipe to waste tap after our last camping trip in Whitby. I need to buy some silicone tube on eBay. This should have lower volume and so less weight than the pipe I bought from the chandlers in Whitby recently. When I empty our grey waste water I am aware of the rather heavy weight of water in the pipe. Our Kemerton XL is otherwise meeting our needs.
On a wider solar panel front concerning solar size, could owners of Kemerton XLs not fit a nearly 100W panel mounted across A-S's decorative side rails, and even a second 100W panel, and scrap the 80W panel that A-S fit as standard? You'd end up with 200W of solar rather than the 80 W that comes as standard. .. and now you're talking about camping off grid, rather than being dependent on EHU.
Are we writing off the capabilities of the decorative Kemerton XL's roof rails?
Your mod to add extra insulation into the rear doors I felt undoubtable helped maintain our comfort in the back when the temperature dropped when we were staying in Northumberland this week, and off EHU.
The sliding door I haven't yet tackled, the insulation surely needs beefing up big time, and the rattles from the blind need to be finally sorted as many have complained about.
I bought some more plastic pipe glue in B&Q Wallsend today for your under sink mod, my previous glue pot had done off and so too thick.
P-clips though, what size to secure the waste water pipe, what size of pipe did A-S fit? It's a fine line here, If I were fitting a P-clip from your photos, I ask did it grip your waste pipe, or should you have got for a bigger size of P-clip?
I'm not happy with my repair of the grey water pipe to waste tap after our last camping trip in Whitby. I need to buy some silicone tube on eBay. This should have lower volume and so less weight than the pipe I bought from the chandlers in Whitby recently. When I empty our grey waste water I am aware of the rather heavy weight of water in the pipe. Our Kemerton XL is otherwise meeting our needs.
On a wider solar panel front concerning solar size, could owners of Kemerton XLs not fit a nearly 100W panel mounted across A-S's decorative side rails, and even a second 100W panel, and scrap the 80W panel that A-S fit as standard? You'd end up with 200W of solar rather than the 80 W that comes as standard. .. and now you're talking about camping off grid, rather than being dependent on EHU.
Are we writing off the capabilities of the decorative Kemerton XL's roof rails?
Relaxez-Vous- Member
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Posts : 1104
Joined : 2019-08-10
Location : Yorkshire
Auto-Sleeper Model : Kemerton XL
Vehicle Year : 2019
glyne lock likes this post
Re: Kitchen sink waste failure
R/V
the grey pipe is 28mm so a p clip for 28mm
I have been fitting a 175w panel in the place A/S fitted a 80w .the renogy panel is 1263 x 699mm
the area of space on a kemerton xl is 1320 x 760mm .you can still fit more panels as to the space on the roof if required
as for the waste I have the 12volt valve and a tap that is solid with just the 28mm pipe and fittings as the system fitted by A/S is just more problems and very poor set up
as for the back door insulation was a great improvement and was much warmer when getting out the shower as you have found .the window insulation also makes the camper much warmer all year round
the grey pipe is 28mm so a p clip for 28mm
I have been fitting a 175w panel in the place A/S fitted a 80w .the renogy panel is 1263 x 699mm
the area of space on a kemerton xl is 1320 x 760mm .you can still fit more panels as to the space on the roof if required
as for the waste I have the 12volt valve and a tap that is solid with just the 28mm pipe and fittings as the system fitted by A/S is just more problems and very poor set up
as for the back door insulation was a great improvement and was much warmer when getting out the shower as you have found .the window insulation also makes the camper much warmer all year round
glyne lock- Member
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Posts : 1810
Joined : 2019-10-18
Location : taunton
Auto-Sleeper Model : kemerton xl
Vehicle Year : 2019
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