Kemerton kitchen sink waste.

After washing up last night I suddenly realized that my feet were wet. Looked down and saw the carpet and floor were awash with the bowl full of water I’d tipped down the sink. So the second day of our Cornish tour has been spent drying out carpets and investigating the mysteries of AS plumbing. The downpipe behind the unit had become detached from the elbow which the sink pipe joins. Getting to it was not a lot of fun and the standard of plumbing was very disappointing. Nothing is really fixed and the way the pipes flop about I’m surprised that it had lasted as long as it had. The type of elbow used should be fixed with pipe solvent glue not just pushed in and where it joins the flexible waste pipe at floor level needs a jubilee clip or something similar. I’ll be buying a clip tomorrow and will glue it up when we return home. Thought it was worth posting as it is something that really needs checking as it sure makes a mess when it goes!
I hope the bathroom waste is better engineered as God knows how you get to that. 
Bazzer.

You are not the first Baz - and I doubt if you will be the last.

Regrettably it's lack of attention to little details like that which can spoil an otherwise cracking good van.

Yes, I too have played the wet carpet game.. second time out as I recall ! When I investigated the kitchen sink waste, the vertical drop proved to have been cut about half an inch short, resulting in an easy separation of joints assisted by some warm soapy water from the kitchen sink. I chose, however, to use electrical insulation tape on every elbow rather than glue, as I felt it was a less permanent fixing should I ever have to take it apart again.... A 28mm connector fitting from ebay extended the pipe sufficiently to overcome the missing half inch....

Why, oh why does this keep on happening, on a 2017 AS van as well! Surely AS factory fitters would have got a handle on best plumbing practice by now!!!  - It seem that the learning curve is too steep for them!

They are cracking vans but doesn’t AS management realise that it only takes “small” silly issues to give a bad impression.

Pete

Why ?         Sadly I suspect AS, like many companies these days is accountant driven... More more, faster faster, rush rush, profit profit... and this is the result. OR Perhaps I am becoming a tad cynical 

putting the lack of attention to detail aside, when charging top dollar for vans (any brand) this must be translated into the best materials for the job....
tiny, skinny waste pipes with push fit joints might be ok on the cheapest end of the market, but these are 'supposed to be' premium level vans... and, as such, should be using the very best materials.

penny pinching like this will only lead to customer frustration and wasted expense for them (and supplier) when vans are returned due to 'Cheepnis' (Frank Zappa) of parts and processes...

a false economy all round....

How depressing and sad it is to read the same old faults reoccurring over and over again.  My dream is for A/s to please pay a visit to this forum and see what your motorhomes of excellence boast really means for owners. 
        I agree Dave , with 50 years experience you would think they would have learned by now. Loose push together connectors on unrestrained pipes being vibrated every time the van is driven and hot water  being thrown down to add a bit of expansion.No one could have guessed they might fall apart...and its never happened before - honest guv!   

Yep, had that leak too!


Lucky you've not got a Fairford - just wait for the sliding sink drain to pop off (another poor design/materials) and disappear down the back of the shower room lining.
Recovering that was a game that kept me amused for hours!



I'll not even mention the kitchen sink tap leaking below the worktop, the flexi-pipe only engaged on half its threads and the supply pipework as tight as piano strings!


Still, at least there's nothing leaking that is actually dangerous

I think the problem is probably far more fundamental Kaspian, at least in part.

Gone are the days when craftsmen were inordinately proud of their work. Most of the A/S labour force will be fairly poorly paid, probably not trained to more than a very basic level, and will regard their employment as "just a job".

With the best will in the world it's impossible to keep a constant check on those who have no pride in their work, or who frankly couldn't give a damn. Some of them are going to throw the parts together, and as long as it looks OK at a glance they will get away with it . . . as we continue to hear on the forum.

Add that to the way in which computer controlled environments have robbed many young people of either the will or ability to use a bit of common sense or simple judgement, and this is the inevitable result.

The only answer is to sack those whose shoddy workmanship is repeatedly revealed during quality control checks!

Unfortunately this raises two more significant problems.
Do they do any worthwhile quality control?
You can't sack useless employees these days because they have yooman rites!

Cynical . . . . who, me!!! 

Sadly you are right Dave from experience quality control is non existent and I contacted the factory to suggest some QC might be wise/prudent after my debacle.
        Stew/Dave how about a new section called A/s top trumphs. We could name a fault and everyone could then comment if they have had it too. Perhaps a prize if you can  name a genuine fault that no one has experienced before!  

Dave,

 

You are right – but only to a point. Some members of Autosleeper management (and directors) do not exhibit a ‘Quality First’ approach. I have proof of this!

Also, I have watched the Autosleeper videos showing the workforce, most of whom are not young lads and don't appear to have the attributes you suggest and wonder ‘Did you do my electrics, plumbing, gas, cupboard doors, bed supports, blinds, etc etc.'

I think the problem with Autosleeper QC lies firmly with A/S management.

Its not such an issue with van conversions but with a coachbuilt, the horizontal surface separation varies due to movement of the sidewalls while driving. If the downpipe sections were glued to each other the pipe would fracture at some point.

If a pipe section is cut too short than that is an assembly fault but this is not a design fault.

our waste pipes are the flexible, 'stretchy' wire strengthened type, so any expansion is catered for (to a degree) by the better, more robust materials used.
each pipe (sink, washroom, shower) makes a separate journey to the waste tank (no junctions or elbows) where they connect directly (via robust jubilee clips) to a designated moulded entry spigot.
ok, our tank is inboard, not outside, but the principle of correct design and materials still applies...
if you start with cheap, thin, solid pipework in a moving structure, it ain't gonna be the same as a flexible, properly secured set up.
apart from the differences in design, materials, construction and QA, the systems are the same....

Won't happen to me, we took the carpets out!!

Funny I did a search for this when it happened and didn't find anything. Didn't realise it was such a common problem . Might be nice if we had a page along the lines of what of common faults and what to check..But hey the sun's out and things are looking up.

It's not all that common Baz.

I would guess at about half a dozen reports on here in the last year - give or take a few! It obviously does happen, regularly but infrequently. Certainly not enough to warrant full scale paranoia! 

The gassing season is nearly upon us - we need to keep our worry beads at the ready for that!   

Mine happened in 2016, still on going I see
---------------
Richard

a 'know issues' database in the three van sections (as stickies?) might help speedy diagnosis and remedy of common problems.

I have just replaced all the original Whale push fit fittings with 12mm black JG fittings as i got absolutly fed up with dripping fittings. The pipe work and wiring were certainly not installed by craftsmen.
The van a2011 Symbol is fantastic ,we really love it but underneath the furniture it’s not a pretty picture.

I had a JG emergency cut off tap to isolate my house outside tap in the winter. When I went to switch it back on a couple of weeks ago it disintegrated and mains pressure water all over the place. It was only a couple of years old so obviously not made well.