B2B any success getting dealers to fit it?

Hi

Just picked up a Warwick XL. Have followed lots of discussions on B2B and have asked the dealer to see if I can get B2B fitted as a warranty claim. ( West Country motorhomes ) they are chasing it for me.

Has anyone else managed to get this through their dealers? If so which dealer? It will be helpful to have examples to give them.

Many thanks

I'm sorry to have to say this but... I would not entrust a job like that to a dealer. IMO they simply don't have staff with the skills to do the job properly. As far as I can tell, it's not a simple job, as you have to alter the way in which the Sargent controller operates.

It might be wrong, but I don't think you stand a chance of having it done as a warranty claim. A/S have always stated that they reserve the right to alter the specification of their conversions without notice, so if they built it with a Split Charge system and that system works as it was designed to work, you don't (unless there are factors that you don't mention) have a basis for a warranty claim. The only exception to this that I can think of is if you had a written commitment at the time of purchase that the conversion would be fitted with a B2B system.

I guess A/S might do it for you as a "gesture of goodwill" but, if so, I personally would want the work done at Willersey, not at the dealer's!

Yet on this thread it appears B2B are fitted now.....

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Hi
Thanks for the reply. The main justification is that the van is not fit for purpose as being able to use off grid. As it stands at the moment, due to the smart alternator, the habitation battery will never charge from the vehicle alternator. The only source of charge would be the solar panel, which will not suffice in cloudy weather, or alternatively plugging the vehicle in on site, making it unfit for purpose.

Interestingly when I talked to the technical guys at the dealers they confirmed that Elddis now fit. B2B to their vans., Bailey also do so if you pester them…… so pestering AS is what I will be doing :)

Bpm001 wrote:The only source of charge would be the solar panel, which will not suffice in cloudy weather, or alternatively plugging the vehicle in on site, making it unfit for purpose.

It seems that this would be debatable - they may argue that there is a difference between "not doing the job very well" and "unfit for purpose".

If, as Paulmold says, B2B is fitted as standard by A/S now, how did you come to buy a new one that doesn't have it?

I don’t think they fit it as standard. When I discussed with the technician at the dealer he had only come across a standard witting with elddis.

I have contacted A-S for their comment.

When you say West Country motorhomes 
Swindon or highbridge
I would put more trust in them and have got the skill to do the work
A/S work shop Willersey   Let’s not go down that road
When you have a problem you go to the dealer you got the camper from

Ok. I'd recommend that you hold back on the "not fit for purpose" line, and approach it as something that will mean that they can make sure you are a happy customer and not a disgruntled one.

I don't ~think~ that you'll get too far by arguing that it's "unfit for purpose" simply because a competitor fits B2B. You have to bear in mind that A/S sold essentially the same conversion without B2B for years, and the owners of those conversions seem to have been able to use their vans Ok - i.e. they seem to have been "fit for purpose".

"Unfit for purpose" is an easy thing allege, but proving it will typically be a different matter (IMO).

I get your point about using the fit for purpose argument in a strong way.

It wasn’t an issue prior to the smart alternators being fitted in Peugeot cabs I think it is since 2021, as it is the ‘smart’ bit which switches the alternator off when the cab battery is fully charged.

Agreed, although I believe the problem is that smart alternators are able to switch off (or reduce) charging when the engine battery isn't quite fully charged.

As already implied, I think you will get a better experience if you focus on the "make me a happy customer" side rather than the "this is not fit for purpose and I'm going to reject it" side. Hopefully you will get a good result - and be able to give West Country Motorhomes credit for putting in the effort needed to make you a happy customer.

I have a smart alternator and on my last trip (lasting one month) I did not use EHU at all, ran the fridge on gas, and the combination of driving most days and the standard solar panel kept the battery charged. What is it that makes it unfit for purpose? I don’t have a lithium leisure battery though. Perhaps that changes the situation.

These vans are not sold as off grid vans , they are able to do a couple of nights with out EHU with no problems, anything longer than that and the vans have to be adapted to suit the users requirements, this don’t make them not fit for purpose

Wondering on a van with a normal alternator and split charge setup, is there a benefit of b2b vs the split charge relay. I guess the split relay charge and the b2b both charge things, so perhaps I've answered my question and its no difference?? :)

YorkshaPud wrote:Wondering on a van with a normal alternator and split charge setup, is there a benefit of b2b vs the split charge relay.

My understanding is that a B2B is, and always has been, a superior charging method.  SCR are only fitted because of their lower cost.  
The B2B will provide a proper bulk/absorption/float regime which the vehicles alternator will not.
But lets see what the others say.

I've got a new Symbol and it has a B2B fitted, specifically this one

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Just had 3 nights off grid and no problems although I can't tell how much the battery is charged as it's a lithium. Might have to fit a smart-shunt.

I have just been reading an article about B2B chargers and smart alternators, the person was saying that to stop the smart alternator turning off and stop charging he drives with his head lights on  and the smart alternator continues to charge, I can not try this as mine is standard and I am back looking for the artical as I did not bookmark it

arkwright wrote:I've got a new Symbol and it has a B2B fitted, specifically this one

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Just had 3 nights off grid and no problems although I can't tell how much the battery is charged as it's a lithium. Might have to fit a smart-shunt.

Was it fitted as standard? Or did you have to request it?

How did you know it was fitted?

Bpm001 wrote:

Was it fitted as standard? Or did you have to request it?

How did you know it was fitted?

I didn't request it and I was specifically looking for it (I even educated the salesman...) The thread referred to by Paulmold above was started by me after hearing of the woes experienced by others buying new vehicles with smart alternators. People who'd bought new vans in 2022 were saying their battery only lasted a matter of hours (when using TV, lights, heating). Mine was fine for 3 nights albeit I didn't have the heating on but still had lights and TV and Wifi 

I think the piece at the link below covers the operation of smart alternators and B2B chargers simply and completely.

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In a split charge system with a traditional alternator, energy is supplied by the alternator to both batteries and any other connected load (eg headlights) until no further energy is required.

A smart alternator will only supply the energy that the ECU instructs it too. If the vehicle battery is 80% charged and the lights are switched on, the ECU will only supply the energy needed by the lights, nothing else. If a B2B is connected to the vehicle battery (the ECU knows nothing of this) the B2B will take whatever energy it needs from the vehicle battery and the ECU will instruct the smart alternator to replenish that energy.

Any idea where a b2b would be located in a A/S Nuevo 2022?

Hi all just to let you know, I requested this from the dealer, they have just received the B2B charger and will be fitting it foc. I can only assume that AS have approved :)

Just talking nicely seems to work. Well done West Country Motorhomes.

Bpm001 wrote:Hi all just to let you know, I requested this from the dealer, they have just received the B2B charger and will be fitting it foc. I can only assume that AS have approved :)

Just talking nicely seems to work. Well done West Country Motorhomes.

How old is your van? When was it registered? How did you request come about please?

mikeelawson wrote:Any idea where a b2b would be located in a A/S Nuevo 2022?

AS are most likely to be fitting Sargent’s B2B which is pictured below. It’s around the same size as the EM50 box so I’d expect it to be under a bench seat or collocated with the Sargent PSU.

Assuming you have a B2B that is.

Tim

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Bpm001 wrote:Hi all just to let you know, I requested this from the dealer, they have just received the B2B charger and will be fitting it foc. I can only assume that AS have approved :)

Just talking nicely seems to work. Well done West Country Motorhomes.

Wow - this is interesting

We are just waiting for our new van (any time now)

Had assumed that AS has solved this issue on new vans, but we will see

Looks like I may have to go down the same line as you.

Is yours a new van and if so, may i ask when you ordered it?

I picked the van up about four weeks ago, it was on the forecourt new and unregistered when I saw it.
I discussed with the sales the issue of the smart alternator, in fairness they didn’t know the issue when I spoke with the technical,guys, although they have seen the B2B appearing in new Elddis vans. They took the issue away to discuss with A-S, they messaged me yesterday to say they have the necessary parts and will install when my van goes in for a couple of snagging issues.
I have read in a few places that these are becoming standard, not seen that in A-S documentation, but certainly worth asking your dealers.