Power Banks

I own a 2017 Symbol and in my travels have noticed that a lot f campervan owners I have met have invested in largish powerbanks.  I myself have been looking at the Ecoflow Delta 2 which although rather expensive would seem to be useful when off grid.
I must admit that I am completely non technical  but if you plug a power bank in to the motorhome/campervan mains socket would it be powerful enough for the Sargant unit to charge say the batteries ?  I appreciate there would not be enough power to run hot water or heating but battery charging would be useful.
I would welcome peoples comments and experiences on these power banks and whether they are seen as worthwhile investments or just expensive gimmicks.  Many thanks.  Bill

Firstly Bill, does your van have solar?

IanH wrote:Firstly Bill, does your van have solar?

Yes it's completely Autosleeper standard with 80 Watt solar panel and relatively small, 80 Amphr ?, leisure battery.  I have been off grid for 8 days but have to watch battery usage very carefully.

Having the same van Bill there are IMO better and cheaper alternatives if charging the battery is your main priority. I will let Ian explain as I’m just off out!

Realistically you need to either replace the solar panel with the biggest one the roof can fit, or add another, smaller where space allows.

Let's say that then gives you 120w

The LB is much too small at 80Ah, measure the space available where it currently is and then go to the TAYNA website. Search there for leisure batteries all the batteries have dimension, you need the biggest one which will fit in the space available.

Next, and this is vital (!) you need to fit a dual battery solar controller and bin whatever Sargent system re solar you may currently have, The outputs of this will be connected directly to each battery via a 10A fuse at each battery +ve terminal.

Then you will have a  much more robust system.
My van has 130w solar and a 130AhLB
All the lighting is LED
We have a Cello TV which needs about 2A
Everything else, when off grid, is bog standard.

We have just done 3 weeks in N Spain with only a few nights on site with literally zero issues re battery charge. Also both of my batteries are 100% full 24/7/365.

The power bank you are considering is only a big battery in a box, it also needs charging, by how?

Doing all above is only a few hundred pounds and much cheaper and better than a heavy cumbersome powerbank, ihmo!!

When Dave comes back from his shopping, he'll let you know how his system works, near identical van.......

IanH wrote:Realistically you need to either replace the solar panel with the biggest one the roof can fit, or add another, smaller where space allows.

Let's say that then gives you 120w

The LB is much too small at 80Ah, measure the space available where it currently is and then go to the TAYNA website. Search there for leisure batteries all the batteries have dimension, you need the biggest one which will fit in the space available.

Next, and this is vital (!) you need to fit a dual battery solar controller and bin whatever Sargent system re solar you may currently have, The outputs of this will be connected directly to each battery via a 10A fuse at each battery +ve terminal.

Then you will have a  much more robust system.
My van has 130w solar and a 130AhLB
All the lighting is LED
We have a Cello TV which needs about 2A
Everything else, when off grid, is bog standard.

We have just done 3 weeks in N Spain with only a few nights on site with literally zero issues re battery charge. Also both of my batteries are 100% full 24/7/365.

The power bank you are considering is only a big battery in a box, it also needs charging, by how?

Doing all above is only a few hundred pounds and much cheaper and better than a heavy cumbersome powerbank, ihmo!!

When Dave comes back from his shopping, he'll let you know how his system works, near identical van.......

Thank you for that and something to think about.  I've only had my Symbol for 12 months, now that I am on my own, but previously had a caravan with 150 W solar panel and 2 X 110 amphr lead acid batteries with no problems.  I assume from your comments that the Sargent built in system cannot be upgraded by solar or batteries.
I will admit that with a power bank I could use my coffee machine and mini air fryer !

Chris, Freelander, is who you need to speak to. He can not only cook now but could do on site welding with his setup!!!

Working Ian, I still do 1 hour a week testing the sprinklers at Wickes!

Bill, Ian pretty much summed it up. The panel below fits perfectly at the back of the roof and is what I and another Symbol owner on here have fitted which now gives us 160w.
I’ve got a single 130ah leisure which fits in the battery box although the lid has a gap. There is plenty of room for a 2nd battery right next to the existing, something I’ve considered but not needed.
I’ve recently thought about fitting an inverter for a small air fryer and other low wattage mains items. As Ian mentioned, Chris is the man.

All this could be done for less than the power bank and be “fit and forget”. I don’t know much about these power banks but I’m assuming it will need to be charged fairly regularly? If away from home on an EHU? Sort of defeats the objective!

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Bill wrote:I own a 2017 Symbol and in my travels have noticed that a lot f campervan owners I have met have invested in largish powerbanks.  I myself have been looking at the Ecoflow Delta 2 which although rather expensive would seem to be useful when off grid.
I must admit that I am completely non technical  but if you plug a power bank in to the motorhome/campervan mains socket would it be powerful enough for the Sargant unit to charge say the batteries ?  I appreciate there would not be enough power to run hot water or heating but battery charging would be useful.
I would welcome peoples comments and experiences on these power banks and whether they are seen as worthwhile investments or just expensive gimmicks.  Many thanks.  Bill

That unit seems to offer 1kwh of power on mains. The truma heater is 2kw on electric so it would provide heating for half an hour. And that’s moderate heating, at full whack the truma is 6kw combined gas and electric on the mix setting.

So not viable for that I agree.

It is 1024wh (watt hours)  is the eco flow which is the equivalent (if google is correct) to an 85ah lithium battery, at a cost of £1099. If you needed all the connectivity and the package it is in then it may be worthwhile but upgrading your battery to something equivalent in capacity must be cheaper, for your 12v needs? 

I think if you don’t have an electrical system e.g. a self build/simple camper they probably make a lot of sense but I think I’d be upgrading what I have for a larger capacity, or maybe look at a petrol generator capable of doing what you need. But I have no experience of those so would need research. Alternatively you could go to a site with electric hookup to charge what you have for a day and move on if that would work for you.

I think I would do that or upgrade what i have on board to accommodate my needs rather than a separate battery unless the package of it was a must.

For upgrades I’d look at extra/larger batteries & larger solar. If using in the winter then that’s more demanding. Prob even more solar and batteries! Or just go on electric on a site every few days, mixed in with using your gas.

Ideally 500w solar and 500ah of batteries or something - sorted!! Depends how long you’re away for and when. As I say winter is a different situation as little/no sun and larger demand on the batteries due to lights on more, maybe inside more also using Tv more etc.

There are also cables that you can plug into Electric vehicle charge points to charge your van that way too. Juicy Brucie i think one is called as an option [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Personally tend to get by by staying on sites with electric hookup when needed and charging everything up before setting off also

Just out of interest YorkshaPud, what off grid power do you have?
Have you upgraded the stock 80w panel and controller? Im assuming you have an EC700, any problems with the inherent drain that thing has!
Love the idea of 500w of Solar and 500ah battery bank though, if only I had the space…
Edit… or the Payload Ian 

It would be much too dangerous to use an EV charging point in your prized possession MH, the one next to it may catch fire!!!

Dbvwt wrote:Just out of interest YorkshaPud, what off grid power do you have?
Have you upgraded the stock 80w panel and controller? Im assuming you have an EC700, any problems with the inherent drain that thing has!
Love the idea of 500w of Solar and 500ah battery bank though, if only I had the space…

Or the payload!!

IanH wrote:Realistically you need to either replace the solar panel with the biggest one the roof can fit, or add another, smaller where space allows.

Let's say that then gives you 120w

The LB is much too small at 80Ah, measure the space available where it currently is and then go to the TAYNA website. Search there for leisure batteries all the batteries have dimension, you need the biggest one which will fit in the space available.

Next, and this is vital (!) you need to fit a dual battery solar controller and bin whatever Sargent system re solar you may currently have, The outputs of this will be connected directly to each battery via a 10A fuse at each battery +ve terminal.

Then you will have a  much more robust system.
My van has 130w solar and a 130AhLB
All the lighting is LED
We have a Cello TV which needs about 2A
Everything else, when off grid, is bog standard.

We have just done 3 weeks in N Spain with only a few nights on site with literally zero issues re battery charge. Also both of my batteries are 100% full 24/7/365.

The power bank you are considering is only a big battery in a box, it also needs charging, by how?

Doing all above is only a few hundred pounds and much cheaper and better than a heavy cumbersome powerbank, ihmo!!

When Dave comes back from his shopping, he'll let you know how his system works, near identical van.......

I have a MPPT controller and bypassed the Sargent power hungry system. Is this what you call a dual battery controller?. Like you I have full batteries 24//7/365 and hardly every use EHU, unless the site throws it in the price.

Dbvwt wrote:Working Ian, I still do 1 hour a week testing the sprinklers at Wickes!

Bill, Ian pretty much summed it up. The panel below fits perfectly at the back of the roof and is what I and another Symbol owner on here have fitted which now gives us 160w.
I’ve got a single 130ah leisure which fits in the battery box although the lid has a gap. There is plenty of room for a 2nd battery right next to the existing, something I’ve considered but not needed.
I’ve recently thought about fitting an inverter for a small air fryer and other low wattage mains items. As Ian mentioned, Chris is the man.

All this could be done for less than the power bank and be “fit and forget”. I don’t know much about these power banks but I’m assuming it will need to be charged fairly regularly? If away from home on an EHU? Sort of defeats the objective!

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Glad to read you are still testing David

Dp1 and now Dp2 both faulty now Richard as of today, they will never be fixed so my weekly test has now become 45 minutes. And that includes the 30 minute walk there and back from home!!

Dbvwt wrote:Just out of interest YorkshaPud, what off grid power do you have?
Have you upgraded the stock 80w panel and controller? Im assuming you have an EC700, any problems with the inherent drain that thing has!
Love the idea of 500w of Solar and 500ah battery bank though, if only I had the space…
Edit… or the Payload Ian 

Hi 

I have a 2019 Warwick XL with stock system except I have upgraded to 2x 100ah lead acid batteries. Does me along with solar until winter and ok for a long weekend off grid as long charged up before setting off.

Definitely drains in the winter. I get round it by having it hooked up to an outside socket that can be turned on or off with an app and I flip it on every few days or so to top it up as indeed the 80w panel doesn’t surmount the drain in winter.

Indeed the space would be ace

I think realistically I could manage prob 3-400ah of batteries under the bench seat, solar is more of an issue due to roof space if not wanting to compromise what is already on the roof (I have satellite and I wouldn’t want to cover over skylights which I know can be done as an option. 

I would like to find a way to plug in an external portable solar panel easily to add to the system to take with me in the winter if I could work out how to connect that alongside the stock Sargent system and/or upgrade the 80w one with an easy to fit panel in lieu, but it’s only winter it’s really a problem for my usage mixed up with going to electric hookup sites

IanH wrote:It would be much too dangerous to use an EV charging point in your prized possession MH, the one next to it may catch fire!!!

Lol :)

the Delta 2 sounds good but you still need power to charge it . this would work good if you went out for the day then went back to a site and put on charge
lots of people put extra batteries but is only any good if you now have the power to charge them ref solar. if not the alternator has to work hard to try and recharge and needs to run for a long time to put them back to full and the alternator will not last as long from the heavy use
1 do the solar mod and extra panel as to your use and needs
you need to fit a mppt controller if not will have problems with power spikes going over 15 volts and turns off the controll

YP, you have upgraded your leisure batteries so why not go a bit further and add a second solar panel with a decent MPPT dual battery controller? 
It will sort your winter problems having to hook up and manage through apps etc..
Bypass everything Sargent and connect directly to the batteries. Hope that makes sense.

Dbvwt wrote:Dp1 and now Dp2 both faulty now Richard as of today, they will never be fixed so my weekly test has now become 45 minutes. And that includes the 30 minute walk there and back from home!!

Nothing has changed then in the last 3+years!

YorkshaPud wrote:
..
I have a 2019 Warwick XL with stock system except I have upgraded to 2x 100ah lead acid batteries. Does me along with solar until winter and ok for a long weekend off grid as long charged up before setting off.

Definitely drains in the winter. I get round it by having it hooked up to an outside socket that can be turned on or off with an app and I flip it on every few days or so to top it up as indeed the 80w panel doesn’t surmount the drain in winter.

...

I would like to find a way to plug in an external portable solar panel easily to add to the system to take with me in the winter if I could work out how to connect that alongside the stock Sargent system and/or upgrade the 80w one with an easy to fit panel in lieu, but it’s only winter it’s really a problem for my usage mixed up with going to electric hookup sites

It sounds as though you are not shutting down your EC700 when the van is out of use.  If you do this the existing Sargent solar setup will keep the VB topped up, including during the winter, and the LB will be fine without charge for up to 3 months.

If you want to augment your 80W fixed panel with a folding panel, this current thread might help:

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Caraman wrote:

It sounds as though you are not shutting down your EC700 when the van is out of use.  If you do this the existing Sargent solar setup will keep the VB topped up, including during the winter, and the LB will be fine without charge for up to 3 months.

If you want to augment your 80W fixed panel with a folding panel, this current thread might help:

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Yes that's correct I leave it on, actually to power up some security so it will indeed drain however now I have battery powered cameras that are cloud based so I just need the internet router turned on, but I do believe that would be the case absolutely. Sargent also acknowledge that the solar isn't sufficient to overcome the winter drain as you get virtually zero from them in the depths of winter don't you!

Thank you for the link   

I've spotted a 400w portable folding solar panel on what seems to be a very good deal, which has an XT60 connection output so I'm thinking I can get that and run it to a solar controller (will need to source or make up a cable) and from that to the battery, but I'm wondering if I would need to disconnect the existing sargent solar connection or if it will merrily run alongside.

Will have a read.

The thing with running 2 solar controllers , ( ie one on your fixed panel and one on the folding solar panel, ) is that one controller will see the higher voltage of the battery that the other controller is producing and drop into Float mode and not provide any charge,

If you bypass the Sargent and use a Victron MPPT regulator and then buy a folding panel with no regulator fitted and also use a Victron MPPT regulator for this, these can use the network feature of Victron and act as one big MPPT regulator giving maximum charge from both panels

YorkshaPud wrote:
Yes that's correct I leave it on, actually to power up some security so it will indeed drain however now I have battery powered cameras that are cloud based so I just need the internet router turned on, but I do believe that would be the case absolutely. Sargent also acknowledge that the solar isn't sufficient to overcome the winter drain as you get virtually zero from them in the depths of winter don't you!

....

I know what you mean but the solar charge from the 80W panel in the depths of winter isn't virtually zero.  If you replace the Sargent solar controller with a dual battery MPPT controller that is connected directly to the batteries, i.e. bypassing the EC700, there is enough solar charge in the winter to keep both batteries fully charged, providing the EC700 is shutdown.  This is with a 10mA load on the LB caused by the tracker and in my case an additional load on the VB caused by a vehicle alarm and use of the central locking.  If the Sargent system is retained it will still keep the VB fully charged, providing the EC700 is shutdown.  If the "security" you have is being powered from the habitation USB or 12V sockets, the EC700 can't be shutdown.  But if it's powered directly from the LB, the EC700 can be shutdown which will mean the LB will need less frequent mains charging, for which the EC700 can remain shutdown.  When the EC700 is shutdown, the mains charge goes to the LB.

YP, are you sure you haven’t the room on your XL roof for even a small second 80w panel like the one I linked to earlier, it is just 700 x 670. This and a decent controller bypassing the Sargent is a relatively cheap and simple upgrade and will transform your van.
So many of us have done it and I bet not a single person regrets it.