Best way to leave control panel

The immediate answer is that by not isolating the leisure battery (by not turning the shut down switch off) your leisure battery has discharged because something has been left on in the van. I say “immediate answer” because it is probably not the full answer.

In my life with boats the norm has been that the domestic and engine batteries have been separated, by split charge relays or blocking diodes, so that if the leisure batteries run flat the engine (or in this case the vehicle) battery does not run flat. However you are reporting that the vehicle battery has also gone flat, which should not be the case because in any sensible scenario the vehicle battery should be isolated from the domestic or habitation electrics. In simple terms when you park up at night and switch the engine off you should not be able to run both batteries flat by excess use of the lights and tv. The vehicle battery should be isolated and should not discharge however much you exercise the habitation electrics, hence you can start the engine and then everything should charge up. The vehicle battery should also be no different to any car in that when the ignition is turned off there should be minimal loads on the battery, probably just the alarm system and radio memory etc. The vehicle battery will gradually discharge due to these small loads mentioned plus natural self-discharge but in any normal automotive system you should be able to leave the vehicle for perhaps a month at least without undue discharge provided that the battery is good, just as you might leave your car at the airport.

So assuming that the EC700 control unit includes the electronic equivalent of a split charge relay or blocking diode your vehicle battery should not have run flat, unless of course the VB is dud.

I am a new Kingham owner and am grappling with understanding the EC700 control system. Despite reading the instructions numerous times I am not a lot wiser! That is from someone who has spent a lifetime building and maintaining boats with all sorts of quite complex electrical (but not electronic) systems.

I think one simple question is exactly how and what is isolated by the EC700 unit? Which battery runs the tracker? I have read that if the EC700 is shut down then either the vehicle battery or the habitation battery is not charged by solar. Does anybody have a definitive answer on that? Are you charging on solar or stored under cover?

Another question could be how exactly are the batteries charged? If the EC700 simply links them in parallel when the engine is running or the charger is plugged in then a high resistance in a dud vehicle battery could prevent the leisure batteries reaching a fully charged state (and vice versa).

Returning to the original question, and presuming that the EC700 does include an effective battery isolation system, then my first thought would be to get the vehicle battery condition tested. I always think that if you get two years out of a standard vehicle battery then you are doing OK, and if your 2021 vehicle may have been standing for a while then that may not have helped. If the VB is dud then it may have implications for the whole charging system, but that depends upon how it works, so I am hoping that other forum members may offer some further info. to guide both of us.

Thank you Inspiredron. We don’t actually have a significant problem as yet with our van having changed the VB. I just want to try and understand the system! As such I am politely intrigued by your comment that my reference to marine systems could be misleading. My comments were purely on the question of split charging, which surely are apposite in either scenario.

If you shut down the EC700 using the switch on the main unit (not the control panel) all solar charge goes to the vehicle starter battery which will be kept in good condition unless the panel is covered by snow or fog for several days.

There is a fuse near the +ve terminal of the leisure battery and I would recommend removing that when the vehicle is being stored.

Its no good worrying whether any systems are shut down as they will be shut down anyway when the battery goes flat.

Peter Brown wrote:If you shut down the EC700 using the switch on the main unit (not the control panel) all solar charge goes to the vehicle starter battery which will be kept in good condition unless the panel is covered by snow or fog for several days.

There is a fuse near the +ve terminal of the leisure battery and I would recommend removing that when the vehicle is being stored.

Its no good worrying whether any systems are shut down as they will be shut down anyway when the battery died and goes flat.

Thanks Peter, useful comments.

Our previous caravans were stored on the drive and I finally adopted the practice of disconnecting the battery when not in use. It was costing too much replacing batteries which had run dead flat and I didn’t like leaving the charger connected all the time. The alarm, radio etc were all slowly discharging the battery so it was much easier to just disconnect everything.

The new Kingham is also parked outside on the drive and it is no issue to keep it plugged in but I would prefer not to. My day job is investigating marine insurance claims and many of the fires that I attend are the result of melt downs in electronic devices such as chargers and dehumidifiers so I am wary of leaving anything powered up but unattended.

With systems such as EC700 I accept that these should fail safe as the battery discharges, but given what you say that the solar will keep the vehicle battery topped up I am inclined to simply fit a master switch on the hab battery so that it can easily be turned off (but yes, same effect as pulling the fuse). The next stage might be to fit an easily accessible master switch on the vehicle battery to make it easy to isolate that as well but we have to wait and see what the usage pattern is. I suspect the van might be used more regularly than the caravans were so the VB might look after itself.

If that causes the tracker to use it’s stand by battery then is that such a bad thing? To be honest I am still debating whether to bother with the tracker subscription. Our last two caravans had trackers and they were a pain in the proverbial for false alerts so we gave  up on them and have relied since on good wheel clamps.

Our boat (kept in Europe) sometimes goes months without being attended, indeed recently a full year when we couldn’t get to it during lock down, but everything electrical is left disconnected, shore power cable pulled and master switches off, and we never have a problem with self discharge or flat batteries. 

My question might have been “are there any consequences to disconnecting the EC700 for significant periods of time” but if you advocate pulling the fuse then the answer would seem to be no.

Caraman wrote:The Bargee - Peter may respond but I don't think he has the EC700.  I have a 2019 van with the EC700.  With the standard solar setup you can safely shutdown the EC700 when the van is out of use on your drive.  I do it all the time.  This will result in all the solar charge going to your VB which I have found is sufficient to keep it fully charged during the winter.  Providing your LB is fully charged to start with and in good nick it will be fine without charge for at least 3 months.  The drain from the tracker on the LB is only about 10mA.  So there is no need to keep your van connected to an EHU whilst it is out of use.  You can monitor your LB voltage under Locate on AS Monitor when the EC700 is shutdown.  If you think the LB could do with top up you can charge it with the PX300 for a few hours without turning the EC700 back on.

You mention disconnecting the VB.  I am sure your van is the same as mine and on the ignition will have a red tag/button.  If you activate this when you remove the ignition key the VB will disconnect from its earth after a few minutes, effectively shutting down the vehicle electrics.  This is explained in the Peugeot handbook.  However, if you have a vehicle alarm and you arm it, it is likely to be triggered when the disconnect takes place.  So you will not be able to arm your alarm.  It will also stop any solar charge from reaching the VB.

Winterisation is referred to on page 10-4 of the A-S owner's manual.  The 2018 version (pre-EC700) refers to the VB red isolation switch but the 2021 version (EC700) doesn't as there is no need to use it with the EC700.  This is because when the EC500 is shutdown the solar charge goes to the LB rather than the VB.

You mention stopping your tracker subscription.  There are several sad and recent stories on this Forum from members who have had their motorhome stolen.  I don't know if they had a tracker or not but I would think carefully before stopping it.  The subscription is competitive with other Thatcham approved trackers.

That seems like a whole lot of good sense thanks Caraman. Have just got in from Belgium so will read in more detail later when in a mental state to absorb, but I was indeed wondering what that red tag on the ignition was. I had rather come to the conclusion that I don’t have to plug in when stored up but thanks for the reassurance.

I’m not stopping my tracker subscription, I have just not as yet confirmed with the selling dealer that a tracker is indeed fitted (I guess it is) or what the subscription status is (probably expired!). I will then probably take the sensible decision, but I had a lot of problems with Metis trackers some years ago in caravans, which seemed like a total waste of money. Perhaps they are better now? It’s on the list, but for the moment it is Sold Secure locked with wheel clamp and steering lock so the insurers are happy, not that one of my cordless grinders wouldn’t get through those in minutes of course!