Charging method and criteria

Along with a few problems I am still trying to understand some of the workings of my new to me and first campervan my 2017 Symbol !  This is after 40+ years of caravanning !!

The Symbol is completely standard as it left the factory and supplied with the smallish (?) leisure battery and 80W roof mounted solar panel.

I am unclear how the battery charging works and assumed that when say the Leisure battery is fully charged the charging goes to the vehicle battery to keep both full.  Is this the same on solar and EHU ?  The Sargant control panel has a switch so you can change the battery being charged but if I had flattened the Leisure battery I wouldn't want to use the Vehicle battery and jeopardising being unable to start the vehicle.

I would welcome some help and advice.  Many thanks.  Bill

May be wrong but my understanding of what I read in the manual is that when leisure battery is fully charged the vehicle battery then gets charged. If I read correctly the switch in the control panel selects which battery is used to power 12v side of things

Don’t you have to have smart charging enabled for this to happen

FreelanderUK wrote:Don’t you have to have smart charging enabled for this to happen

Indeed you do, there are settings in the advanced menu which allows you to set what happens for solar charging and also charging on EHU. If I remember correctly, smart was the default setting for both.
When I first bought my van, I was equally confused as to what was actually going on, it soon became apparent that ‘smart’ wasn’t actually that smart. Also the EC500 was a big drain on the leisure battery when simply sitting idle with no other load.

There are many threads on the subject so I won’t elaborate but essentially the stock install isn’t up to the job of keeping both batteries fully charged without manual managing of the charging regime, especially during winter when the solar charge is minimal.

There's also the issue about the type of solar controller you have. My guess is that it's a PWM type which does a worthwhile job, probably providing most of the solar power to the leisure battery and a trickle charge to the vehicle battery, about 5-10%.

More recent A-S vans than yours came with so called smart features, but also came with an inferior solar controller. I am not certain of the date that A-S stopped fitting the PWM solar controller.

My only suggestion for now is to use or buy a digital voltmeter to measure your battery voltages. You'll soon can see how effective your mains charger and solar panel are, and learn the effects of the switch positions.

R-V, assuming bill’s 2017 Symbol is the same as my 2018, this is the stock single output controller which is fitted in the EC500. All solar charging is taken care of by the Sargent EC500 if it is powered up.

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Morning Dave
Which solar controller did you replace yours with? Also how did you connect it? Does it bypass the EC500? Thanks.

Dbvwt wrote:R-V, assuming bill’s 2017 Symbol is the same as my 2018, this is the stock single output controller which is fitted in the EC500. All solar charging is taken care of by the Sargent EC500 if it is powered up.

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Those wire look just big enough for a 1.5v AA battery

Baggiecamper wrote:Morning Dave
Which solar controller did you replace yours with? Also how did you connect it? Does it bypass the EC500? Thanks.

Probably easier if you read my thread after I did the mod a couple of years ago. There are many other similar threads if you do a search but I don’t know of a single member who regrets the upgrade.

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Baggiecamper wrote:Morning Dave
Which solar controller did you replace yours with? Also how did you connect it? Does it bypass the EC500? Thanks.

Fit the best, victron, I fitted a Victron Smartsolar 100/20 this allows you to use the victron app to keep an eye on what's happening

As far as I am aware the Victron Smartsolar 100/20 only supports one battery, here the leisure battery. The Votronic and Epever Duo Racer solar controllers will also keep the vehicle battery topped up too. The Epever D-R also has an App via Bluetooth, With my Votronic LCD display I can see what charge has gone into the leisure battery. Votronic do have an add-on Bluetooth box but it looks to be not as good as the Epever one. After a while I mostly stopped checking the LCD screen, because Glynlock's suggestion of a voltmeter plugged into a cigarette lighter type socket gives a constant readout and makes a good nightlight when I am plotting a course to the toilet at night.

FreelanderUK, presumable you fitted something like a Battery Master to keep your vehicle battery topped up when off-grid?

Relaxez-Vous wrote:As far as I am aware the Victron Smartsolar 100/20 only supports one battery, here the leisure battery. The Votronic and Epever Duo Racer solar controllers will also keep the vehicle battery topped up too. The Epever D-R also has an App via Bluetooth, With my Votronic LCD display I can see what charge has gone into the leisure battery. Votronic do have an add-on Bluetooth box but it looks to be not as good as the Epever one. After a while I mostly stopped checking the LCD screen, because Glynlock's suggestion of a voltmeter plugged into a cigarette lighter type socket gives a constant readout and makes a good nightlight when I am plotting a course to the toilet at night.

FreelanderUK, presumable you fitted something like a Battery Master to keep your vehicle battery topped up when off-grid?

Yes fitted a Van bitz battery master for topping  up the starter battery, had one on the last van for 10 years with never a flat battery

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]The epever screen on my phone showing the amps and lots more you can see 
What may have been a good make years ago victron have not kept up as with a duo controller 
The epever and voltronic have been tested by members here and each person that has fitted them have all said one of the best mods they have done 
The solar fitted by A/S was just good for the sales man talk
I run a 12volt kettle my mains inverter all from a great mod to the solar system and do not need to plug into 240v if I go to a site

I use the Victron smart sense, smart shunt and the 100/20. Mppt controller, they are all linked on there own network with the smart sense relaying the temperature to the controller to enable the batteries to be charged at the correct rate for the battery temp, the battery master will supply up to 1amp as needed to the starter battery

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Bill wrote:Along with a few problems I am still trying to understand some of the workings of my new to me and first campervan my 2017 Symbol !  This is after 40+ years of caravanning !!

The Symbol is completely standard as it left the factory and supplied with the smallish (?) leisure battery and 80W roof mounted solar panel.

I am unclear how the battery charging works and assumed that when say the Leisure battery is fully charged the charging goes to the vehicle battery to keep both full.  Is this the same on solar and EHU ?  The Sargant control panel has a switch so you can change the battery being charged but if I had flattened the Leisure battery I wouldn't want to use the Vehicle battery and jeopardising being unable to start the vehicle.

I would welcome some help and advice.  Many thanks.  Bill

I don't know if you have got the answers you want.  This instruction on Sargent's website explains quite a bit:
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If your EC500 is shutdown, all your solar charge and mains charger output (if connected to an EHU) will go to your leisure battery which will also be under no load.  If your EC500 is not shutdown, your leisure battery will be under a constant load from the EC500 and therefore will need charging either from the mains charger (if connected to an EHU) or the solar panel if there is enough sun which there isn't at this time of year.  You will also be able to switch the charge to smart, which should automatically select which battery needs charging, or manually switch the charge to whichever battery you want.  If off-grid smart isn't that smart so in the summer its better to manually select which battery receives the solar charge.  As already stated, in the winter there is insufficient solar charge to compensate for the EC500 load and any other 12V load.  This document might also help:
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That is very well put Caraman, it pretty much sums up the stock install which most newcomers who have bought recent vans soon realise isn’t up to the job!

IMO the are 2 options. 

1. Stick with the stock options and faff around constantly worrying about changing the settings and plugging into EHU to keep the batteries charged.
2. Just do the ‘mod’ and forever forget about the state of your batteries 

the solar panel if there is enough sun which there isn't at this time of year. 


I think I have misread this, as my 120w panel connected to a MPPT and EC500 shut down when van not in use has kept both my batteries fully charged for the last 3 years with never having to use EHU, apart for 1/2hr before we go out for the day to heat water.
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Richard

rgermain wrote:the solar panel if there is enough sun which there isn't at this time of year. 


I think I have misread this, as my 120w panel connected to a MPPT and EC500 shut down when van not in use has kept both my batteries fully charged for the last 3 years with never having to use EHU, apart for 1/2hr before we go out for the day to heat water.
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Richard

I never understand this either Richard.
Although I have a 240v socket right next to its launch pad, it is only ever used to pre cool the fridge prior to departure on a trip. On 5 different vans now, 4 with 100w and this one with 160w both VB and LB have been 100% full all year round.
Sure if you wanted to camp on the shortest day and want to use a lot of electrical power then it'll be different, but we don't so all the solar has to do is maintenance charge to both batteries

In fact, at present, my 160w panel is off the truck for warranty work and a spare 23w one we have is doing the same job, perfectly adequately, I will admit we aren't using the van but it is still doing the maintenance charge work just fine.

I

rgermain wrote:the solar panel if there is enough sun which there isn't at this time of year. 


I think I have misread this, as my 120w panel connected to a MPPT and EC500 shut down when van not in use has kept both my batteries fully charged for the last 3 years with never having to use EHU, apart for 1/2hr before we go out for the day to heat water.
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Richard

My clumsy wording.  My comment was made in the context of the EC500 not being shutdown when at this time of year the 80W panel on its own will struggle to keep the leisure battery fully charged due to the EC500's constant load.

IanH wrote:

rgermain wrote:the solar panel if there is enough sun which there isn't at this time of year. 


I think I have misread this, as my 120w panel connected to a MPPT and EC500 shut down when van not in use has kept both my batteries fully charged for the last 3 years with never having to use EHU, apart for 1/2hr before we go out for the day to heat water.
-----------
Richard

I never understand this either Richard.
Although I have a 240v socket right next to its launch pad, it is only ever used to pre cool the fridge prior to departure on a trip. On 5 different vans now, 4 with 100w and this one with 160w both VB and LB have been 100% full all year round.
Sure if you wanted to camp on the shortest day and want to use a lot of electrical power then it'll be different, but we don't so all the solar has to do is maintenance charge to both batteries

In fact, at present, my 160w panel is off the truck for warranty work and a spare 23w one we have is doing the same job, perfectly adequately, I will admit we aren't using the van but it is still doing the maintenance charge work just fine.

I

You don't have the power hungry EC500/EC700.  When the van is in use, it has to be on (unless you carry out major electrical modifications).  In the winter months the supplied 80W solar panel and its single output regulator working through the EC500/EC700 generates less power over time than the EC500/EC700 uses.  I understand this is worse with the EC700 (which I have) than the EC500.

Thankfully then!