Harmony 2002 Battery Charger Missing

Hi all, new member and looking for help!
Bought my 2002 Harmony about a month ago, and just getting habitation check done on it. Service guy not able to locate battery charger, phoned AS who advised could be behind false wall under hob, not there, or under pull up panel in floor, not there. Just had another look, found some disconnected wires, looks like it's been removed. An additional battery has been fitted behind the driver's seat, below the bench seat, and connected to the original leisure battery under the driver's seat, with apparently the wrong type of cable! One terminal was disconnected, the service guy reconnected. Decent amount of charge in second battery. There was a good charge level showing on the battery meter above the back door. This morning there is no charge at all, no lights working!! Help? What is going on, anyone? Will the battery recharge if I take it for a drive? Should I disconnect additional battery. Do I need to re-install a battery charger?

Any help appreciated!

Thanks
Pat

Hi  

weepatsyd wrote:An additional battery has been fitted behind the driver's seat, below the bench seat, and connected to the original leisure battery under the driver's seat, with apparently the wrong type of cable! One terminal was disconnected, the service guy reconnected.

The mystery is why the battery  went flat overnight. It may be that if the original battery was flat and reconnecting the second battery flattened that because it would be trying to charge the original.

weepatsyd wrote: Will the battery recharge if I take it for a drive?

Yes it should do but if the battery is totally flat it will take a longish drive. Better to get hold of a battery charger and charge it that way. A stand alone one will do, you don’t have to fit one in the van yet.

weepatsyd wrote:Do I need to reinstall a battery charger?

You don’t have to but it’s probably a good idea if you intend to use the hook up. That said if you drive a lot and don’t stay long at any one place the leisure battery (charged by the alternator) may be all you need.

I remember a case where somebody had be using a van for years when someone asked why the green (battery charger) light wasn’t on. Turned out that the charger hadn’t switched on since he’d had the van and as he only stopped in one place for a day or two he hadn’t noticed.  The leisure battery charged while driving had all he capacity needed.


Perhaps leave the second battery disconnected until you know everything else is working and then reconnect it.
Make sure it’s connected with the correct type of cable though. Too thin a cable could result in fire.

Brod

Thanks for reply, Brod.

Yes, very odd why gone flat overnight. Have disconnect second battery, and will take for drive this afternoon.
Service guy going to replace cable. Might just get charger and have second battery removed. Taking up valuable storage space! 

Pat

weepatsyd wrote:Will the battery recharge if I take it for a drive?

Also, be aware that if both batteries are now flat and the split charge circuit is functioning, the fuse on the split charge circuit will almost certainly blow within a few seconds of starting the engine. So, as already recommended, it would be a good idea to try to get some charge into the batteries before starting the engine. If the second battery was disconnected when you bought the van, I would disconnect it again, as that was almost certainly done for a good reason (i.e. the second battery is ~probably~ beyond "end of life")!

I have a couple of pictures of my charger in situ, but I don't know how to put them on this reply.  

My next project is to learn how.  

 First attempt at pictures
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hi

Is that a Zig X7 to the left of the pump?

Brod

Thanks, RS49. Yes, that looks like where it isn't!

Hi Brod and Pat,
Sorry the picture came out upside down, don't understand why yet but I'll get there eventually.
The charger/power supply in the pic is an X-70, I replaced the X-7 originally fitted because the charger didn't work. The man at Zig told me it was an upgrade internally but is the same size and has exactly the same connections. The only problem was that they don't sell to the public, they supply wholesalers. He gave me some numbers to try as they still make them. As I was phoning round, my wife Chris found a few suppliers online and I ordered straight away, arrived in 2 x days very well packed. We are now happy campers again..... or will be if the weather holds after lockdown ends and we are allowed to travel again.
Pat, I hope you get your problem solved, have a look at the thread you received on your hello. It lists the suppliers we found. All of us like to adapt as we go, sometimes it inconveniences others. It suited the previous owner.
Rod

Hi Rod
Yes, figured it was upside down, but just turned laptop round!
There was a Zig X-7 reconditioned on Ebay, but listing now finished. Would that be worth buying if gets listed again, or should I go for Zig X-70?
Yes, everyone changes to suit themselves!
Pat

I think I've have seen the ebay ad as well, is it Redbrain or something like that? I'm sure it would work brilliantly, but I didn't want to wait for another unit to be repaired when I could upgrade with no issues (I'm probably a bit OCD) . I know that Applejack/Apuljack? repair the X-7 but you have to send them one to have it repaired and again I didn't want to wait. It's more expensive to buy new but my reasoning was the new one has all new components and nothing 20 years old to break down. The old one lasted 20 years so a new one should last longer than me:snigger: . 
Everyone has different opinions and I respect that, you can make your own choices from the advice you receive on the forum, there are lots of very experienced and clever people on here and I'm still learning a lot.

Hi  

RS49 wrote: It's more expensive to buy new but my reasoning was the new one has all new components and nothing 20 years old to break down. The old one lasted 20 years so a new one should last longer than me

I agree (not that it should last longer than you).

The Zig uses mostly standard components so is almost always repairable and I’m sure a properly reconed unit will last for a long time but as RS49 points out the components are still 20 years old (maybe pushing 30).

Unless cash is tight I’d go for the X70  personally.

Brod

Oops, schoolgirl error - didn't realise master switch turned off when checking battery level- no wonder no charge showing!
Still, took for lovely 100 mile round drive today to Loch Doon, about as far south in East Ayrshire as can get during current Level 4 restrictions (though did stray into South Ayrshire on way back for different route - ssshh!). Battery at full level. Disconnected second battery for journey, but reconnected tonight, and will check again in morning. There is a date 22/10/12 on second battery - is this now at 'end of life'?

Sorry for confusion! 
Should I still buy a charger? 
Thanks
Pat

weepatsyd wrote:There is a date 22/10/12 on second battery - is this now at 'end of life'?

Age isn't everything - it's possible to make a leisure battery last for 10 years or more if you look after it. But, the worst thing that can happen to a battery (short of being blown up in an IS terrorist attack, maybe) is to be left discharged for more than a short while, because that results in sulphate forming on the plates - and they never really recover from that. So... if it has sat disconnected since you bought it, it's very likely to be past "end of life". But... no harm in testing to see it has survived with at least some of its original capacity...

You have some choices here, depending on how you want to use your little house. 
Do you want to keep two batteries? You mentioned originally that the second battery takes up valuable space but it could be moved to under the cab passenger seat (where the safe is) which is secured by a removable locked metal plate.
Do you want the one battery (which you know is ok) with a charger that works everything in the van.
Lastly, would you like two batteries and the charger fitted? My big question is will the charger/power supply (X-70 for example) be able to cope with two batteries? Will you need a different charger/power supply, someone else will know the answer to that.

It will come as no surprise that I would go for the known good battery and a new X-70 charger/power supply. It may be the cheapest route depending on battery and installation costs. I hope you can enjoy the process of choosing because you only have to please yourself, my opinion is just that, an opinion.
Best wishes Pat
Rod

Thanks for replies, all, very helpful. Will consult with service guy and get his thoughts.
Pat

Hi  

RS49 wrote: My big question is will the charger/power supply (X-70 for example) be able to cope with two batteries? Will you need a different charger/power supply, someone else will know the answer to that.

The answer to that is yes it will cope with two batteries.

Assuming it is the same or better than the X7 it’s a well designed piece of kit. The output is current limited at 12.5 Amps so you can’t overload it. It will just sit there and continuously output 12.5 Amps. That means that if both batteries are totally flat it will just be slower and may even run at a lower voltage for a while. This is quite normal.

Any other power supply "should" be the same but I have only personally tested the Zig.

The only issue is that it could be at maximum output for longer and that means running warmer for longer so just make sure it’s mounted vertically and  has some space around the ventilation holes.


Brod