Towing with a Topaz

Hi, we are considering buying a 2.5, 130 bhp Topaz, it will need to tow a four wheel trailer with race car and spare parts etc. weighing around 1600KG to 1700KG.
Has anyone had any experience towing with this type of van. One Topaz that I saw advertised is an automatic, will an auto be up to towing or would I need a manual.

Pete

I think it would be worth speaking to AutoSleepers themselves to get their advice on axle loadings.

The T5 has a pretty high Gross Train Weight - probably around 5.4 tonnes on a Topaz (I don't have the exact figure to hand) but the Topaz is IIRC very back-heavy - so you might find that the extra load of the towbar and trailer noseweight is too much for the back axle.

The 6-speed Tiptronic auto is fairly well regarded and already has a transmission fluid cooler, but adding extra cooling would be difficult as there is very little spare space around the 2.5l engine. Personally (as an owner of an auto 2.5l T5) I would avoid the older style auto for that type of use (the newer DSG auto should cope Ok, but a Topaz with one of those would be rare and expensive).

Having said that, the base vehicle is very capable as a tower - I know of people with that van who regularly tow around heavier trailers (with diggers on) with the manual box without any issues at all.

A few years back I remember asking Moran Motorhomes why A/S didn't offer an ES option an auto Topaz, when you could specify an ES manual version. They said the additional weight of an ES seat compared with the standard bench meant the weights weren't viable.

On Tewkesbury site last week we saw a Topaz towing a Bailey Unicorn caravan.

I used to tow a Bailey 2 berth caravan with my once owned T5 Topaz manual, never knew it was there apart from the extra length.
Towed all over France within 2 weeks of buying it and had never towed a caravan before, kept up the speed limits no problem.
Don't tow these days due to over 70 years weight restrictions on licience.
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Richard

I tow a light caravan with an Auto T5 Topaz.  The towing characteristics are near faultless. Combination of 2.5L five cylinder engine and auto box give you all you need.
The Autosleeper manual states Gross Train Mass as 5200Kg and Max Braked Trailer Mass as 2200Kg.  Within your figures.
I always try to keep the rear axle loading as low as possible  by keeping Topaz load between the front and rear axles, and water tanks near empty.
Your trailer mass is within the 80% of the vehicle MTPLM of the Topaz....(3000Kg) as recommended by the Caravan Club
The above references are from the Autosleeper manual. My VW T5 manual is in the vehicle parked outside. It's now midnight and a bit too chilly outside for skinny dipping.
I would be happy to refer to this manual if you have any questions. Tomorrow!
Keith

Just to clarify the industry's towing ratio recommendation is based on the kerbweight (ie empty weight) of the towing vehicle and the MTPLM (potential loaded weight) of the caravan. The recommendation is that ratio can be up to 85% for inexperienced driver's of towing rigs and up to 100% for those with experience of handling such rigs. 
With a campervan/motorhome it's debatable whether the weight that should be used Is the kerbweight of the unconcerned VW van or the unloaded van after conversion, but it definitely is not either the vans actual loaded weight or it's MTPLM/GVW.

I'm not sure who "the industry" represents, but the Gov.UK site uses the expression MAM when stating the rules re towing-vehicle mass and trailer mass.  Their definition of MAM equates to MTPLM.  Any other interpretation could be a movable feast.
The other consideration, not yet mentioned, is the date of first obtaining a UK driving license.  Mine was in 1951, ie. before 1997,  so I am legal for the figures quoted in my first post. I think Pete should refer to the GOV rules himself, but my figures above were drawn from the Autosleeper  Topaz manual and I have not yet found a reason to question them.
Keith

'The industry' I referred  to is the NCC, which is the leisure vehicle trade association to which all the major UK caravan and motorhome producers belong, plus both major caravan/motorhome clubs, neither of which are members of the NCC. 
MAM, MTPLM and GVW are all effectively the same thing, I.e the maximum weight a vehicle is allowed to weigh and it is a fixed amount that has to be exhibited somewhere on a vehicle.
If you are using the towing ratio recommended by the industry then it's the maximum potential weight of the trailer (MTPLM) expressed as a % of the  empty weight of the tow car (aka Kerbweight or Mass in Service). Both figures are fixed and published with one being on the vehicle's mandatory plate. These figures were chosen so that buyers of cars and caravans could assess the weight suitability before purchase. Using actual loaded weights would never work as they'd usually be an estimate.
Of course the original proponents of the ratios realised that in reality the tow car would usually be loaded but that would only lower the %. So in use, with both a loaded tow car and loaded trailer the two recommended % limits would be around 70% (for 85%) and 85% (for 100%).

These recommendations are usually less than the towing limits of the towcars as they are based on the absolute maximum the vehicle can safely start on a steep hill and for which the manufacturer will accept liability on warranty issues etc. The caravan recommended ratio is specific to a high sided vehicle that has varying handling characteristics in poor weather and characteristic weight distribution.
In short, the ratio uses the empty weight of the van and the potential maximum weight of the caravan.

Basically if you have a light/medium weight caravan and load the caravan correctly, just get on with it and you will be fine. Over 70's may need to have the correct driving licence.
A lot of there things can take the enjoyment out of touring, saying that I have seen very light weight cars towing large caravans, mainly in laybys with the bonnets up!
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Richard

Thanks for all of the replies, it's good to know the opinions and experiences of other people.