Re: Second leisure battery

by StewPotch Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:34 pm

Merry Christmas to one and all. I fully agree with everything Kaspian says. We all have different backgrounds and skill/aptitude levels but we can all learn from each other.

I found what AllaFEvans had to say about batteries/charging very interesting - I get it might be too technical for some, but having a vague knowledge on the subject, I could keep up.

Batteries/chargers/static switches are a huge part of offshore life, providing Uninterruptible Power Supplies for pressurisation systems, Fire & Gas detection, Emergency ShutDown, escape systems, NavAids, Telecoms and generator ‘Black Start’ capability.

I was very heavily involved in these systems, knowing what I needed to know, but no way was I an expert on ALL offshore electrical systems - but I still know more about our oil rig’s electrical system than anyone on here!

Much in the same way Kaspian knows more about his specialty than anyone on here.

Therefor, when someone with years of electrical maintenance on motorhomes joins the forum, he should be afforded the opportunity to have his say, as a subject matter expert, at least until he proves otherwise.

There is no doubt that some of the comments by the moderators were well out of order, and I’m sure they will now feel quite embarrassed at how their behaviour has come across.

by Tinwheeler Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:48 pm

-mojo- wrote:
Tinwheeler wrote:What I find difficult to cope with is very lengthy posts which deviate from the topic in hand into side issues.

But that's just a fact of forum life! The thing is that you've got lots of people, each in a different frame of mind, all trying to get their point across. One might be in a good mood, another might just have been rejected for promotion at work, and another might be just back from the pub. So it's only reasonable to expect that the occasional thread will go astray.

Compared to other forums, this one tends to stay pretty level and civilised. On some of the many other forums I'm on, you could expect the participants to be telling one another to xxxx off at about the fourth or fifth post so by comparison this one is pretty restrained.

Yeah, tell me about it!

However, I was simply stating my point of view, mojo, and not complaining about uncivilised behaviour.

by Heanorboy Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:55 pm

I certainly don't have the knowledge to get involved in who is right of wrong but do have a simple request. H H asked a fairly simp!e question but most of responses are only going confuse and infact have now reached a point where answers to the original question are unlikely to be offered.
So would it be possible to get the technical discussions moved to a new discussion thread.
I do hope that new .Member HH hasn't been put off the forum because I think that maybe i would have been second thoughts
David up!

by **roli** Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:50 am

I have kept out of this argument up to now its gone far enough over who knows what etc. It would be good if the original topic could be kept to.

Different makes of van are built differently and dealers and service companies get familiar with a wide range of vehicles.
There are others whose knowledge on a particular make may exceed that of full timers and who have the ability to keep upto date on a particular brand having access to that manufacturers manuals and direct contact on a regular basis with that manufacturer

This is the case here, please accept this and believe you me we dont want this forum to become the slanging ground that a large one got to a few years ago and it was this reason
Gromit suggested locking the thread cos he didnt want to see it go downhill. Paul also tried to calm things down. The initial response to Peter was obviously not aware of his background, followed by many years on the ASOC Technical Group and regular Liason and visits to AutoSleepers (not the Service Centre with his van like many of us)

So can I ask if Topics can be kept to with reasonable discussion or you may well see
sensored1

on a few posts

Lets all have a Happy New Year please

by Paramedic Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:25 am

roli wrote:I have kept out of this argument up to now its gone far enough over who knows what etc. It would be good if the original topic could be kept to.

please accept this and believe you me we dont want this forum to become the slanging ground that a large one got to a few years ago and it was this reason

So can I ask if Topics can be kept to with reasonable discussion or you may well see
on a few posts

Lets all have a Happy New Year please

Thank you, a most welcomed and sensible conclusion. Best wishes to all.

by AllaFEvans Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:16 am

roli wrote:I have kept out of this argument up to now its gone far enough over who knows what etc. It would be good if the original topic could be kept to.

Different makes of van are built differently and dealers and service companies get familiar with a wide range of vehicles.
There are others whose knowledge on a particular make may exceed that of full timers and who have the ability to keep upto date on a particular brand having access to that manufacturers manuals and direct contact on a regular basis with that manufacturer

This is the case here, please accept this and believe you me we dont want this forum to become the slanging ground that a large one got to a few years ago and it was this reason
Gromit suggested locking the thread cos he didnt want to see it go downhill. Paul also tried to calm things down. The initial response to Peter was obviously not aware of his background, followed by many years on the ASOC Technical Group and regular Liason and visits to AutoSleepers (not the Service Centre with his van like many of us)

So can I ask if Topics can be kept to with reasonable discussion or you may well see
on a few posts

Lets all have a Happy New Year please

Roli, you may be right that those involved may know more about the specifics of a vehicle by maintaining good contact with the manufacturers, but there can be the alternative view that the manufacturers don't know their craft either.
I am appalled that after all the comments made on the basis that the moderaters are 'saving their 'pal' from embarrassment' that you come along and write that Peter knows 'his stuff' because he is contact with the manufacturer.
You write in support of him saying that because of this his knowledge is strong, he is the one that is 'correct'.
You write,
"This is the case here, please accept this......"

Where is the independence of a moderator there? You have just added so much power to arguments above that, clearly, the Forum could be run better!!!

Forgive me all, but this IS on topic, as our advice was presented as a solution to the original question, but was then attacked as being rubbish.
It is therefore within the scope of the discussion to establish if that is the case or is Peter is handing out advice that will cost the 'Originator' dear in burnt out batteries, lost efficiency and capacity, along with the same overworking charger that Peter notes he has suffered.

You will notice that all our replies were backed up by evidence, even pointing to other acknowledged experts but Peter used nothing independent to support his views.

To all moderators : I believe everyone should have every right to defend their skill level when challenged, just as Peter has every right to defend his with sound corroborated evidence.
For Peter to offer little real defence, no independent evidence at all, to support what he says and then hide behind "we will have to agree to disagree" when he starts to be proven wrong, is unfair.
Especially so when it was he who launched the criticism against me, at several levels, on more than one issue.

Isn't it important for the original Poster of this question to have confidence in the technical advice being offered?

Mine is backed up by Insurance that says If I am wrong, I pay for the premature battery damage.
Peters vicious attack that stated, "obviously (he) has no experience of operating high capacity battery banks", along with other unpleasant comments, should be put to the test.
That is the only fair and unbiased way, not just for me but for everyone thinking of adding more than one battery.

The remainder below is even more directly relevant to the original subject of adding a second battery, just like all the posts we have made from the mains chargers ability to deal with multiple batteries, to long term EHU and Car battery Smart chargers, etc -

If you want to see just how good your vehicle manufacturer is at 'Electrics', measure the Alternator charge voltage at the habitation area batteries with the engine running and the Fridge on 12v.
If any body gets anywhere near the necessary fast full charging 14.4v that the Alternator puts out on a twin battery standard set-up, I will give them a free Habitation service.

We have never seen a UK vehicle with more than a poor 14.0v charge rate, usually nearer 13.8v, which many will know is the voltage mains chargers 'Trickle' at, so you can imagine the poor charging that will result.

Sometimes a single battery set-up will surprise us by showing almost 14.1v, but adding a second battery will place a higher load that usually causes further voltage drop so that that charge rate plunges further into the doldrums. An awful 13.7v is not unusual.

You can imagine what the 4 battery setup coming into us in two weeks is going to look like?
I am hoping the owner will allow us to document what we find, but from the thousands of chargers repaired in the past and the hundreds of Caravan and motorhomes we have worked on in a specialist Electrics role, I don't think it's going to support some of the existing views held on here.

Please can we ask that forum readers really do check their charging voltages at the batteries on Alternator and post the results here? Note the batteries must have some discharge otherwise, obviously, the charging system will realise no charging needs to take place,
This will provide real evidence of exactly of how the systems work as opposed to how the manufacturers tell us they work.

But then again presenting how things really work is likely to be a reason for the Forum Moderators to unfairly intervene as it is not likely to show one of the posters 'technical ability' in a good light.