Re: Warwick Duo 67 plate flat van battery.

by Paul O Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:03 pm

Sounds like the 20 amp fuse for the vehicle battery has blown. Hence the smart charger will NOT see the battery voltage. It will swop over on the controller but No charge will be going into the vehicle battery on EHU.
When on EHU switch to the vehicle battery charge option and check on the battery terminal.You can do this under the bonnet, you do not have to do it direct on the battery terminals. Looking for 13.7 volts approx. The controller will show 13.7 volts going to the vehicle battery but if the fuse is blown it will be going no where and you will only see the battery voltage at the terminals even though the controller will be showing 13.7v for the vehical battery.
The fuse is number number 7 (Yellow in colour) in the EC 500 distribution board. There are 2 x 20 amp fuses. one for the leisure battery number 6 and one for the vehicle battery. Top row count no 1 left going right to number 7.

by GP1069 Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:40 pm

Info on Sargent charging [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for those that might find it useful, follow link.

Extract:
Option: SOLAR TO (SMART is the default setting.)
SMART – This turns on the solar smart charging feature. When a solar panel is fitted the energy from the panel
is automatically directed to the vehicle or leisure battery according charge state of each battery and the operation
of the mains battery charger.
LEISURE – This setting will cause the energy from the solar panel to be directed to the Leisure battery only.
VEHICLE – This setting will cause the energy from the solar panel to be directed to the Vehicle battery only.

Option: CHARGING MODE (SMART is the default setting.)
SMART – This turns on the smart charging feature. The energy from the intelligent charger is automatically
directed to the vehicle or leisure battery according charge state of each battery.
NORMAL – This setting will cause the energy from the intelligent battery charger to be directed to the battery
selected manually on the control panel by the battery select button.

Testing
To confirm the Smart Charge feature is working, first ensure the system is programmed correctly as per the
above information and that both batteries are charged above 12.4V.
Ensure that the Leisure Battery is selected as the active battery for charge (You should see a voltage of at least
13.6V on the Leisure Battery and the actual voltage for the Vehicle Battery e.g. 12.5V).
Place a load on the Vehicle Battery, I.e. put the headlamps on, and when this load drops the Vehicle Battery
voltage below 12.4V you should observe the charger switch from Leisure to Vehicle Battery (Vehicle Battery
will jump from 12.3V to 13.6V\14.4V).
After a 4 hour period the charger will switch back to the Leisure Battery for 4 hours and will then revert to
monitoring the Vehicle Battery.

by **roli** Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:48 am

Thanks for that GP1069. I have put it in Factsheets so other members will be able to find it easily

by PLOUGHLIN Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:02 am

roli wrote:Thanks for that GP1069. I have put it in Factsheets so other members will be able to find it easily

It might help if the Factsheet entry identified the Sargent system to which it refers, EC500?

by GP1069 Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:03 pm

EC400/450/500

Peter

by jhorsf Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:01 am

how do you change these options?

by PLOUGHLIN Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:33 am

jhorsf wrote:how do you change these options?

Follow the "Sargent Smart Charging" link above and it explains how to access the options on the control panel

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by **roli** Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:07 am

Title of factsheet changed as requested

by jeffhornsey Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:39 pm

Hi. We have 17 plate Warwick XL-5 months old with 80w solar panel.. Left for 4 weeks over Christmas. Would not then crank the engine. Cab battery was 10.3 volts. The catch 22 is that this will not operate the door locks so passenger door cannot be opened to access the hood release. My jump leads would not reach the battery via the drivers door so called the breakdown service.
The weather was very overcast so I guess the solar panel was not doing much.
The current with the ignition key in the off position is around 0.6 amps. With the key in the battery isolator position it is close to or at zero. (I had left it in the off position because I had assumed that this would engage the solar panel as needed. However with a constant discharge of 0.6 I doubt that the solar panel could hold the charge.
3 questions: should the pv panel engage the cab battery with the switch in the isolator position?
is 0.6A discharge normal? and
Do I have the correct battery. Labelled 680A (cranking I presume) I've read elsewhere that some Peugeot cabs are fitted with 950A cranking batteries.
Thanks
Jeff

by Paramedic Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:54 pm

Hi, likewise, 80w solar panel, left for seven weeks Nov/Dec 2016 result flat battery, breakdown service diagnosed one dead cell. There is much on this forum about battery problems and the experts will soon reply. Regards

by AutoSleepy_Don Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:00 pm

Jeff
I know the solar will only charge vehicle battery if the EC480/EC500 are switched on & smart charging enabled (which it will be), otherwise all output goes to leisure battery. What was the leisure battery voltage?

I would not be expecting much from the 80W solar panel in December January. We in UK just do not receive enough solar energy at this time of year. The UK receives only one tenth the solar energy in December as it does in July.

0.6V sounds high as that would flatten a battery in a week. I have left mine for two weeks and it was 12.2 12.3V. And I forgot to shutdown, I only powered off, and didn't isolate. Both things I should have done to minimise battery usage.

Good question about the isolator switch, I would guess that it will not charge once isolated but I don't know. You could try it on EHU and see if voltage rises or even if the EC480 see a vehicle battery when its isolated.

by -mojo- Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:19 pm

jeffhornsey wrote:
The current with the ignition key in the off position is around 0.6 amps

As Don says, there are lots of other threads here to read on the subject, but it seems the consensus if you're leaving the van unused for more than a week is to switch the Sargent controller to shutdown, and to isolate the engine battery. By default the solar panel will only be charging the leisure battery in shutdown mode, so it makes sense to isolate the engine battery - unless you can't for other reasons such as the vehicle alarm needing to be wokring.

When measuring the 0.6 Amps, one thing you need to account for is that on all modern vehicles there are control modules that take a relatively large amount of power while running, and which may take several minutes to enter a low-current "sleep" mode. On a VW T5 for example, this can take almost 20 minutes, and any activity during that period (such as opening a door) will cause the modules to wake up again. The standing current while in storage can only meaningfully be measured when all of the base vehicle's control modules have fully shut down,

by jeffhornsey Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:46 am

Thanks to you all for your advice. To continue the discussion: I had the van checked by the dealer's electrician yesterday. He found a constant discharge of 0.26 A when shutdown. Most of this (about) 0.2 was into the tow bar electrics! He removed the tow bar fuse and it dropped to 0.06. The PV panel was working ok. But I appreciate that it will not do much at this time of year particularly as it is mounted horizontally and not angled towards the sun.
I have measured the voltage of both batteries when on EHU and they both rise to normal (13.1 to 14V) and alternate the charge as expected. Unfortunately I only have a cheap DC clamp meter so my measurements of amps are somewhat vague.
I have contacted the towbar supplier and they are coming to me to check the tow bar next week. I will post on here after that.

by utxb01 Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:07 pm

@jeffhornsey - Thank you!!

I have a 17 Fairford with a factory fitted towbar and have been having exactly the same issue as the OP. Like you, with everything turned off the control panel has been showing between .2 and .6 amp discharge.

I have had to jump start my van 3 times over the past couple of months and today had to "kick" the battery with my Ctek before it would charge from the EHU.

I have just removed the tow bar fuse and the panel now shows 0 amps. I hope that the battery has not been damaged by several complete discharges.

If it turns out that the tow bar has been causing the problems and the battery is damaged I assume/hope that Autosleepers will replace them without charge.

by Guest Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:20 pm

Both above mention removing towbar fuse. Does anyone know the location and, ideally fuse number, of this on my 2011 Warwick Duo??
Thanks in advance
Ian

by Peter Brown Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:21 pm

I didn't know that AS offered a tow bar as an extra, its not in the catalogue. Is it a new option?

by Guest Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:52 pm

Peter Brown wrote:I didn't know that AS offered a tow bar as an extra, its not in the catalogue. Is it a new option?

Peter

Don't know, it came fitted when I bought the truck second hand, so may not have been AS installed.

Interested though in the apparent current draw which seems to disappear when the fuse is removed. My solar panel recharges both batteries every day, well most, and seems to need to. The lost power must be going somewhere!

As an aside, it adds 200mm to the van length, including its ( rather handy) rear step, making it 6.2m long. So I remove it for ferry crossings!

think_smiley_46

by Peter Brown Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:18 pm

IanH wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:I didn't know that AS offered a tow bar as an extra, its not in the catalogue. Is it a new option?
Peter

Don't know, it came fitted when I bought the truck second hand, so may not have been AS installed.

Interested though in the apparent current draw which seems to disappear when the fuse is removed. My solar panel recharges both batteries every day, well most, and seems to need to. The lost power must be going somewhere!

As an aside, it adds 200mm to the van length, including its ( rather handy) rear step, making it 6.2m long. So I remove it for ferry crossings!

I have no experience of towing electrics, but the recently reported findings suggest that there may be an always active 'box' monitoring the canbus to switch power to the relevant towbar socket connections as and when required?

by Guest Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:18 pm

Peter Brown wrote:
IanH wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:I didn't know that AS offered a tow bar as an extra, its not in the catalogue. Is it a new option?
Peter

Don't know, it came fitted when I bought the truck second hand, so may not have been AS installed.

Interested though in the apparent current draw which seems to disappear when the fuse is removed. My solar panel recharges both batteries every day, well most, and seems to need to. The lost power must be going somewhere!

As an aside, it adds 200mm to the van length, including its ( rather handy) rear step, making it 6.2m long. So I remove it for ferry crossings!

I have no experience of towing electrics, but the recently reported findings suggest that there may be an always active 'box' monitoring the canbus to switch power to the relevant towbar socket connections as and when required?

Thanks Peter
Think I'll leave well alone now, but if I come accross a fuse for towing, I'll remove it.
Ian