Warwick Duo 67 plate flat van battery.

by andyb Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:46 pm

Hi
I went to check my van 2 days ago and found the van battery completely flat and the leisure battery at 15%. Immediately put on hook up.
The Leisure battery has completely charged but the charger does not swap over to charge the van battery. There was no response from the swap battery button. the reading for the Van battery is 1.5v (So it is seeing something)

I've read that by holding down the up and down arrows simultaneously on the EC 400 control panel you get a screen where you can change the battery "Charging Mode" from "Smart" to "Normal", and tried in both settings to swap the charge to the vehicle battery but it does not seem to change.. holding down the left arrow button made the unit re-calibrate and the "swap battery" button now beeps when pushed, but still will not change to charging the van battery. ( I've also checked as many fuses as I can find and all seem OK)

Any idea what I should do to get the Van battery to charge?

(I also had a good check to see why they had both discharged but could find nothing left switched on, lights, fridge, heating etc all off).

by AutoSleepy_Don Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:06 pm

Can you confirm you meant 1.5V?

by AutoSleepy_Don Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:15 pm

I too have a 67 Warwick Duo. I leave permanently on EHU. It constantly swaps between batteries itself.
I wonder if 1.5v registers as connected with a smart charger? I am not sure the battery can be recovered from such a low voltage. I would try a separate charger to try to kick it back to life.

How long has it been left for?

I would check the 1.5v with a multimeter on the battery terminals to eliminate problem with van electronics.

by andyb Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:28 pm

Just looked again and it is 2.1v .

I'll check the battery terminals tomorrow.

It has been about 3 weeks since we last used the van and it was fully charged when we got home.

by Stewart John Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:36 pm

Hi

This post may throw some light on the problem.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by andyb Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:56 pm

Stewart John wrote:Hi

This post may throw some light on the problem.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks Stewart, Just read the link, so possibly detach the vehicle battery, recharge separately and refit, and hopefully that should reset things.

Do you know if I can charge the battery in situe or do I have to de-connect it all?

by burlingtonboaby Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:58 pm

andyb wrote:Just looked again and it is 2.1v .

I'll check the battery terminals tomorrow.

It has been about 3 weeks since we last used the van and it was fully charged when we got home.

Hi andyb
Welcome to the forum from Bridlington .
Boaby

by Stewart John Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:08 pm

Hi

To be safe to protect the vehicle electrical system I would disconnect the battery leads when charging on a external battery charger.

by GP1069 Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:28 pm

Hi, Just out of interest on your 67 Duo, where the key goes into the ignition do you have a red button ?

by -mojo- Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:11 pm

andyb wrote:
Do you know if I can charge the battery in situe or do I have to de-connect it all?

You haven't said what type of charger you have, so Stewart John is quite right to advise you to err on the side of caution and disconnect the battery positive before charging. However, if you have a modern intelligent battery charger, you may find that you don't need to - CTEK for example say that you can use their chargers to recharge a battery in place and connected. But if you're in any doubt, consult the documentation that came with the charger and if that is not clear, do as SJ suggests!

Incidentally, if it's a modern charger you might find that it will refuse to recharge a battery if the terminal voltage is too low. If that happens there are ways around the problem, but you need to exercise a lot of care when doing so to avoid risk of explosion from the gases that can be given off during fast charging.

by Gus446 Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:53 pm

Can I suggest that if it has dropped to below 2volt the battery has probably had it, what size battery is fitted, ?

by inspiredron Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:09 am

My vehicle battery dropped to about 2v a couple of years ago because I left it about 3 months off charge. I used a non smart charger to part charge it so that the van's smart charger could then take over after a couple of hours. It has worked ok since but "fully" charged is now 12.6v not 12.8 so it was damaged. I left the battery in place with the old fashioned charger as it was just a trickle charger fused at 5 or 10amps. If you disconnnect the battery you may lose radio code and possibly other memorised info.

by Peter Brown Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:02 am

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I suggest you read the thread at the link above. There are many similar threads on the forum as this is a common occurrence on modern vans.

If you do have the 'red tab' on the ignition switch, you can use that to turn the key to a position where the starter battery is isolated.

by MelB Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:40 pm

The MH is in storage and for some years now, in the winter months, I have followed the advice provided by Peter and disconnected the –ve terminal of the starter battery. I have been pleased with the outcome, with the battery maintaining an healthy charge. In previous years, when the –ve terminal has been reconnected, the radio code and other memorised information have functioned as they should, without re-setting. Hopefully, the results will be the same this year, when I decide to reconnect the battery.
Mel

by Guest Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:44 pm

its 3 years since i had a van with a sargent ECU but i remember managing to ensure that the EHU charging regime was set to 'smart' to ensure both batteries were being serviced when on hook up.
i assume that a 67 reg AS Warwick would be set up this way, or at least, could be checked and changed if necessary.
its very easy to check that, despite what the ECU says its doing, there is a charging voltage going to the vehicle battery when on EHU...just put the van on hook up (at home/storage if you like) and put a voltmeter across the vehicle battery terminals...it should be around 14.1v. this is the uplift charge from the charger.
if it is not in this region, the charger is not charging the vehicle battery and you should get help to rectify this or you will be killing more batteries over time....
you do not want to be caught on site with a flat cab battery when it should be charging while on EHU.
there are so many posts on this forum regarding the non charging of batteries.....why?

by brodco Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:11 pm

Hi

bolero boy wrote:.just put the van on hook up (at home/storage if you like) and put a voltmeter across the vehicle battery terminals...it should be around 14.1v. this is the uplift charge from the charger.
if it is not in this region, the charger is not charging the vehicle battery and you should get help to rectify this or you will be killing more batteries over

Careful though, the battery should only be at 14+V (some chargers go higher) for a short (ish) period, then it’ll drop back to 13.6V to 13.8V depending on the charger and temperature. If it’s sitting around 13.7 V it’s fine.

Brod

by Peter Brown Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:42 pm

bolero boy wrote:its 3 years since i had a van with a sargent ECU but i remember managing to ensure that the EHU charging regime was set to 'smart' to ensure both batteries were being serviced when on hook up.
i assume that a 67 reg AS Warwick would be set up this way, or at least, could be checked and changed if necessary.
its very easy to check that, despite what the ECU says its doing, there is a charging voltage going to the vehicle battery when on EHU...just put the van on hook up (at home/storage if you like) and put a voltmeter across the vehicle battery terminals...it should be around 14.1v. this is the uplift charge from the charger.
if it is not in this region, the charger is not charging the vehicle battery and you should get help to rectify this or you will be killing more batteries over time....
you do not want to be caught on site with a flat cab battery when it should be charging while on EHU.
there are so many posts on this forum regarding the non charging of batteries.....why?

The Smart Charge circuitry directs the output of the charger to the leisure battery OR the vehicle battery depending on its analysis of the state of charge of both batteries. It is perfectly possible that with Smart Charge selected whilst on EHU, the charger will not be connected to the vehicle battery and you will measure (say) 12.5 on that battery.

As Brodco says, the PX-300 charger used by the EC500 has an output voltage range of 13.6 to 14.4v.

by Guest Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:27 am

if the vehicle battery is low, the smart regime should detect this and switch over, then the test can be carried out.
IIRC, the Sargent unit can be also set to other charging 'states' like 'vehicle' which prioritises the cab batrery charging.
again, this would enable a test to ensure that the higher charge rate is reaching the cab battery.
it could easily be that there is a fuse (or similar) is causing the issue but first thing is to check that a charge is getting through when it 'should' be...
after that, if charge confirmed, the problem will be one of a poor battery, or if charge not reaching battery, some other issue, fuse, poor connectivity, charger issue, sargent PSU issue etc.....
but, first things first...

or.....just get the dealer to sort it, its plainly wrong.....and wil become the bain of your life...

by Guest Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:40 pm

Much as there has been a lot of help offered here, there is a much better solution for long term storage. (I assume the vehicle is NOT in covered storage!)

A 100w solar panel connected to a dual battery solar controller, ratio set to 70/30 or so. In that way the solar will prioritise the LB and when its full, then charge the VB. As the LB isn't being used in storage, it'll recharge quickly then charge the VB which is constantly being discharged by immobiliser, alarms etc.

This exact system has worked for me for the last 5 yrs now, on two different vehicles, is completely foolproof and needs no EHU. There is not a lot of output in winter, but our batteries are always full. In summer it is sufficient that we never use and EHU unless its cost is included in a site fee!

BTW if a nominal 12v lead acid battery is showing 1.5 or 2v it is well and truly dead!

by Peter Brown Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:30 pm

IanH wrote:Much as there has been a lot of help offered here, there is a much better solution for long term storage. (I assume the vehicle is NOT in covered storage!)

A 100w solar panel connected to a dual battery solar controller, ratio set to 70/30 or so. In that way the solar will prioritise the LB and when its full, then charge the VB. As the LB isn't being used in storage, it'll recharge quickly then charge the VB which is constantly being discharged by immobiliser, alarms etc.

This exact system has worked for me for the last 5 yrs now, on two different vehicles, is completely foolproof and needs no EHU. There is not a lot of output in winter, but our batteries are always full. In summer it is sufficient that we never use and EHU unless its cost is included in a site fee!

BTW if a nominal 12v lead acid battery is showing 1.5 or 2v it is well and truly dead!

The OP's van only has a single channel solar regulator, rather than the dual channel you refer too.

by AutoSleepy_Don Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:25 pm

The OP states his leisure battery had dropped to 15% (as well as leisure to 0%). The manual says the solar panel, which his van should have already, will charge the leisure battery even when the system is in shutdown, unless van under cover or it's broken etc.
Therefore solar is not doing anything to help the OP or the leisure battery would have been charged.

All this in 3 weeks.
I have the same van. I have unplugged my EHU and shutdown the EC480 thing as I'm interested to see how long it will last and how much charging the solar panel will actually do. I am expecting much more than 3 weeks.

by Guest Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:33 pm

Peter Brown wrote:
IanH wrote:Much as there has been a lot of help offered here, there is a much better solution for long term storage. (I assume the vehicle is NOT in covered storage!)

A 100w solar panel connected to a dual battery solar controller, ratio set to 70/30 or so. In that way the solar will prioritise the LB and when its full, then charge the VB. As the LB isn't being used in storage, it'll recharge quickly then charge the VB which is constantly being discharged by immobiliser, alarms etc.

This exact system has worked for me for the last 5 yrs now, on two different vehicles, is completely foolproof and needs no EHU. There is not a lot of output in winter, but our batteries are always full. In summer it is sufficient that we never use and EHU unless its cost is included in a site fee!

BTW if a nominal 12v lead acid battery is showing 1.5 or 2v it is well and truly dead!

The OP's van only has a single channel solar regulator, rather than the dual channel you refer too.

Then swapping it for a dual battery solar regulator is the obvious answer, unless I'm missing something! Photonic Universe do my one, (https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/catalog/full/24-10A-dual-battery-solar-charge-controller--regulator-for-12V--24V-batteries.html). I deliberately didn't use and MPT one as I intended to fit a B2B in the future, that one includes and MPPT controller.

by Peter Brown Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:46 pm

IanH wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:
IanH wrote:Much as there has been a lot of help offered here, there is a much better solution for long term storage. (I assume the vehicle is NOT in covered storage!)

A 100w solar panel connected to a dual battery solar controller, ratio set to 70/30 or so. In that way the solar will prioritise the LB and when its full, then charge the VB. As the LB isn't being used in storage, it'll recharge quickly then charge the VB which is constantly being discharged by immobiliser, alarms etc.

This exact system has worked for me for the last 5 yrs now, on two different vehicles, is completely foolproof and needs no EHU. There is not a lot of output in winter, but our batteries are always full. In summer it is sufficient that we never use and EHU unless its cost is included in a site fee!

BTW if a nominal 12v lead acid battery is showing 1.5 or 2v it is well and truly dead!

The OP's van only has a single channel solar regulator, rather than the dual channel you refer too.
Then swapping it for a dual battery solar regulator is the obvious answer, unless I'm missing something! Photonic Universe do my one, (https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/catalog/full/24-10A-dual-battery-solar-charge-controller--regulator-for-12V--24V-batteries.html). I deliberately didn't use and MPT one as I intended to fit a B2B in the future, that one includes and MPPT controller.

Not that simple, the output of the regulator feeds into the EC500 Smart charge circuitry that monitors and charges (if enough light) both batteries as needed. One forum member (I don't want to mis-quote the name from memory) has installed a switch to disconnect the solar regulator from the EC500 and connect it to a battery master, in turn connected to two batteries. The idea is that in winter storage the battery master is used but in summer operation the full EC500 functionality is restored. We haven't had a progress report for a while to say how well its working.

by Peter Brown Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:47 pm

AutoSleepyDon wrote:The OP states his leisure battery had dropped to 15% (as well as leisure to 0%). The manual says the solar panel, which his van should have already, will charge the leisure battery even when the system is in shutdown, unless van under cover or it's broken etc.
Therefore solar is not doing anything to help the OP or the leisure battery would have been charged.

All this in 3 weeks.
I have the same van. I have unplugged my EHU and shutdown the EC480 thing as I'm interested to see how long it will last and how much charging the solar panel will actually do. I am expecting much more than 3 weeks.

Very interested to hear how you get on.

by Guest Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:36 pm

IanH wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:
IanH wrote:Much as there has been a lot of help offered here, there is a much better solution for long term storage. (I assume the vehicle is NOT in covered storage!)

A 100w solar panel connected to a dual battery solar controller, ratio set to 70/30 or so. In that way the solar will prioritise the LB and when its full, then charge the VB. As the LB isn't being used in storage, it'll recharge quickly then charge the VB which is constantly being discharged by immobiliser, alarms etc.

This exact system has worked for me for the last 5 yrs now, on two different vehicles, is completely foolproof and needs no EHU. There is not a lot of output in winter, but our batteries are always full. In summer it is sufficient that we never use and EHU unless its cost is included in a site fee!

BTW if a nominal 12v lead acid battery is showing 1.5 or 2v it is well and truly dead!

The OP's van only has a single channel solar regulator, rather than the dual channel you refer too.
Then swapping it for a dual battery solar regulator is the obvious answer, unless I'm missing something! Photonic Universe do my one, (https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/catalog/full/24-10A-dual-battery-solar-charge-controller--regulator-for-12V--24V-batteries.html). I deliberately didn't use and MPT one as I intended to fit a B2B in the future, that one includes and MPPT controller.

as Ian says, resolving this (far too common) issue is straightforward to resolve.
the OP has issues with his EHU/charger keeping the cab battery charged when on ehu. yes, a dual channel solar regulator can charge all batteries but i would also want the mains charger issue resolved as well.
i have described a few tests, but it may be that the dealer should resolve this.

back to the solar issue....its easy to unplug the SP from P14 (well, it used to be slot 14....) on the back of the sargent PSU and connect it to a decent regulator which will charge both batteries.
its obvious ( from the repeated posts on here detailing the failure of the sargent system to carry out this simple task) that this would be more reliable.
as an alternative, connect the SP via a regulator, directly to the leisure batteries, then fit a Battery Master (or equivalent) to transfer charge to the cab battery.
either solution is simple and bypasses the Sargent system which seems to be the root of most 'charging' threads ive read.
however, id want to get to the bottom of the mains charger issue too.

Warwick Duo 67 plate flat van battery.

Warwick Duo 67 plate flat van battery.

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Solar solution

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