Cambelt Change

Thought I'd share my cambelt experiences with you all.

I changed the belt on our Boxer Harmony with a 2.0l petrol engine some years back at around 48k miles. I've done a few belt changes over the years and that one was pretty straightforward. As always seems to be the case, the one I took off looked pretty much like new.

However you will recall that I swapped the petrol engine last year for a 2.0 HDi unit. Having had the clutch release bearing fail on it's first major trip last summer, today, in advance of our forthcoming 'major', I decided to change the belt on the HDi engine, this being 7 years old with 64k on the clock. My thoughts were that this is the only remaining consumable service item that I have not checked or renewed, and if the clutch had had a hard life in its former life as a builder's van then perhaps the belt had too.

Anyway I started at 0900 today and finally wrapped-up circa 1830. What a 'lu-lu' of a job! All the PSA HDi belt changes I've done hitherto have been on the family fleet of tired Citroen Xsaras and, naturally, I'd expected this to be a similar job. However there are a couple of significant differences and these caused me hours of difficulty. Foremost amongst the issues are the presence of a looping EGR pipe to the rear of the camshaft sprocket, and the presence of the brake master cylinder immediately above the camshaft sproket. These two obstacles act in combination to make removal of the upper section of the timing belt cover extremely difficult, and its replacement close to impossible. In the end I had to release the EGR valve from its position on top of the inlet manifold and force the EGR pipework away from the camshaft sprocket. This piping is so stiff that it really doesn't move that far at all. In fact one of the manuals says that the whole EGR system should be removed to obtain access, but all the nuts and studs on the hot side looked very rusty and I dared not risk shearing-off a stud at this stage so had to make do with it in situ. In the end after many hours I found just one combination of lowering the engine on the trolley jack (O/S engine mount has to be removed) bringing the engine as far forward in the engine bay that it can go and the application of excessive brute force that forced the cover back on again.

Of course where the amateur struggles to match the proper competent professional - accepting that they are rare beasts in my experience - is in tightening the new belt. Naturally, I don't have a tension gauge calibrated in SEM units as referenced in the manuals so I usually rely upon matching the tension with that of the belt I've taken off: this conformed to usual mechanic's rule of thumb, that is if the belt can be twisted to 90 degrees and no further then it will be OK. However there's no way I or anyone else can achieve the specified 4% tolerance on tension using this method. Anyway, I tensioned it as close as I could and put it all back together as far as fixing the engine but leaving the auxilliary belt to the alternator off. On starting the engine the belt was noticably noisier than the one I'd removed. After running the engine for the while I decided I couldn't live with it and therefore it would have the be slackened off. After all the messing about I just could not contemplate removing the upper timing belt cover again, but I reckoned that if I could remove all four fasteners I could then raise the cover sufficiently to gain access to the tensioner pully. In practice Sod's Law worked in my favour for one rare occasion and by partially releasing the tensioner I was able to incrementally slacken the belt until the noise was significantly reduced, and I left it at that. The tension still feels comparable as far as the 'twist test' goes, but it did have a significant effect on the noise.

Once I'd settled the tension issue, it was pretty straightforward to put it back together. OK so with 20/20 hindsight I should have changed the cambelt last year when I had the engine out doing the swap, just like I should have chnged the clutch at that time too. But last year I didn't know whether the engine was any darn good so didn't want to invest time and money unnecessarily. Also there are some difficult processes which are helped by having the engine in the vehicle, principally loosening the camshaft pulley: that was another difficult process. The manual advises that you put the vehicle in top gear whilst 'an assistant' applies the brakes. The manual also says that under no circumstance should the crankshaft be locked by using the timing through hole and an 8mm bolt, like one does to lock the flywheel and crankshaft when fitting the new belt. However I found this to be the only possible way of applying the necessary torque with a breaker bar. Anyone know why one should not lock the flywheel in this way and apply torque?

So there you have it. Changing the cambelt on a HDi Boxer is feasible for the savvy amateur but it is a slow and difficult process that, personally, I'm in no hurry to repeat, well at least not for another seven years!


Bartfarst

Bartfarst wrote: Anyway, I tensioned it as close as I could and put it all back together as far as fixing the engine but leaving the auxilliary belt to the alternator off. On starting the engine the belt was noticably noisier than the one I'd removed. After running the engine for the while I decided I couldn't live with it and therefore it would have the be slackened off.

I had exactly the same experience when I changed the belt on my petrol engine, although it felt the same tension as the old one, it whined and I had to slacken it off a bit. It's now done over 1000 miles so I'm confident that it's OK

The manual also says that under no circumstance should the crankshaft be locked by using the timing through hole and an 8mm bolt, like one does to lock the flywheel and crankshaft when fitting the new belt. However I found this to be the only possible way of applying the necessary torque with a breaker bar. Anyone know why one should not lock the flywheel in this way and apply torque

Bartfarst

I bought one of these flywheel locking tools
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
To lock the crank without fear of damaging the castings or pulleys.
Just a comment after re-reading the thread. There is only one tensioner pulley on the XU10J2 and it's steel not plastic.I did later replace the water pump as I thought it might be leaking but it wasn't and I'd already bought the pump - £18.50 BTW. The old one looked like it was the original fitment from 1995.

Frank

going back to cost! when I bought my 05 Nuevo I did not think about the cam belt issue, so after joining ASOF and getting very good information I went back to the dealer (I had not picked up Maggie yet) i asked for the cam belt be replaced, he was very reluctant to do this as we had agreed the deal. After a bit of a todo we agreed a 50-50 split on the cost and my bill was £250.00, so judging from previous posts it looks as if I have been the victim of a bit of overpricing!! So, if that is the case he has lost my future business
Haydn

hillwalker wrote:going back to cost! when I bought my 05 Nuevo I did not think about the cam belt issue, so after joining ASOF and getting very good information I went back to the dealer (I had not picked up Maggie yet) i asked for the cam belt be replaced, he was very reluctant to do this as we had agreed the deal. After a bit of a todo we agreed a 50-50 split on the cost and my bill was £250.00, so judging from previous posts it looks as if I have been the victim of a bit of overpricing!! So, if that is the case he has lost my future business
Haydn

Sounds like 50 he did the work and 50 you paid for it!!!

PB

boxerman wrote:I had exactly the same experience when I changed the belt on my petrol engine, although it felt the same tension as the old one, it whined and I had to slacken it off a bit. It's now done over 1000 miles so I'm confident that it's OK

The first 2.0 HDi belt I ever attended to was on a Xsara that, apparently, had just had the belt changed. It gave off all manner of strange noises, in particular a most strange 'honking' sound at all revs. I was sure what I could hear was the water pump or idler bearings failing. So off came the belt, changed the pump and idlers and put it back together again making sure I matched the previous tension. You've guessed it: the noise was just as bad. I then slackened off the belt and the noises progressively diminished.

Morals of the tale are, firstly, that there's no point matching the belt tension to that previously applied if the 'monkey' that did it previously left it too tight and, secondly, tight belts can make the strangest of noises leading you to suspect things other than the belt are at fault.

I didn't change either water pump or idlers this time round - they all appeared fine despite the idlers being the plastic variety.

Missed one important point from my earlier post: another key action necessary to replace the timing belt cover is to cut off and smooth out two unused plastic runners on the rear face of the cover. This gains about 2mm, this being the difference between the cover going on and staying off.

Bartfarst.

It is probably worth noting at this point that not all of the Boxer engines are belt-driven. The more recent 2.2L, 100hp is chain-driven, unlike some of the Ducato models, and it is actually a Ford design.

Keith

Yes, apparently timing belts are unable to provide the level of accuracy of valve timing demanded by emission regulations and performance requirements, hence the reversion to timing chains.

Bartfarst

Bartfarst wrote:Yes, apparently timing belts are unable to provide the level of accuracy of valve timing demanded by emission regulations and performance requirements, hence the reversion to timing chains.

Bartfarst

About time. I could never understand the logic of an entire engine being held to ransom by a loop of fabric! Now can we get rid of Dual Mass Flywheels please!

Never mind, Belts and Chains ...... let's get back to good old Cogs ..... (never ever had one break !!)

Showing my age, or what ??

Brian

Whilst mine is a VW just had the belt changed on 5 cylinder 2.4 diesel. Will let you know the cost when I get the invoice. The nearest VW dealer who could do this is 50 miles away as its a LWB and too big for the standard ramp. Took it my local garage who service it anyway.

VW told to change every 4 years / 60000 miles which is more frequent than the service schedule, although that's 14 years old.

my Symphony 2l petrol was serviced at the main dealers in its early life.
The peugeot servicing schedule was 36k miles for toothed timing belt.
No time stated.mine was done after 10 years at 36901miles.
i notice that brake fluid change every 2years or 36k miles
coolant every 2years or 72k miles.
Dealer was only going by milage.
i would expect the same at most garages, as i have found out,unless you specifically ask for these to be carried out on a time cycle.
Mike

zimmy wrote:
I last had a cambelt change in March 2007. Can anyone tell me when my next one is due.
Thanks.

Before my last 2 month trip to Spain I decided it was high. time for a cambelt change on my (2004) Peugeot Boxer Symbol. I took the van to a very good local garage that would not rip me off, the mechanic looked in the Gates catalogue (Gates make 90% of all cambelts) and on the peugeot page it stated 72,000 miles or 10 years, I saw this this with my own eyes, so there you have it, Official!.
The mechanic advised me not to have it done but I will probably have it done next year to play it safe. I keep reading about so called experts advising changes after 3 or 5 years and wonder why.
I had a Volvo estate with a rubber toothed cambelt for 18 years and never had it changed.

mikemelson wrote:

zimmy wrote:
I last had a cambelt change in March 2007. Can anyone tell me when my next one is due.
Thanks.

Before my last 2 month trip to Spain I decided it was high. time for a cambelt change on my (2004) Peugeot Boxer Symbol. I took the van to a very good local garage that would not rip me off, the mechanic looked in the Gates catalogue (Gates make 90% of all cambelts) and on the peugeot page it stated 72,000 miles or 10 years, I saw this this with my own eyes, so there you have it, Official!.
The mechanic advised me not to have it done but I will probably have it done next year to play it safe. I keep reading about so called experts advising changes after 3 or 5 years and wonder why.
I had a Volvo estate with a rubber toothed cambelt for 18 years and never had it changed.

The "experts" or more so the manufacturers are recommending 4/5 year changes because they are fearful of bad press when a belt fails well before the recommended distance interval. It's also known that by changing to plastic tensioner wheels (presumably to save revolving mass as modern diesels rev higher) that they can stress crack and collapse resulting in disasterous consequenses.

As for dual mass flywheels, as long as Joe Public demand more power and torque from diesel engines then there are going to be more power stroke stresses put onto the gearbox gears and hubs - so you either replace the DMF or eventually replace the more expensive gearbox. It's all a compromise I suppose - we could go back to the days of rattly, underpowered, inefficient ol' oil burners (at that might suit some folks {boxerman } or we enjoy the effects of a modern oil burner - you makes yer choice.................................

dandywarhol wrote: It's all a compromise I suppose - we could go back to the days of rattly, underpowered, inefficient ol' oil burners (at that might suit some folks {boxerman } or we enjoy the effects of a modern oil burner - you makes yer choice.................................

The nearest thing I've got to an oil burner is a Tilley lamp I'm a petrolhead Buddy - through and through

Frank

Y'didn't take long to respond to that one Frank.....................

I can be quite quick when I need to be

Frank