Cambelt Change

I last had a cambelt change in March 2007. Can anyone tell me when my next one is due.
Thanks.

zimmy wrote:
I last had a cambelt change in March 2007. Can anyone tell me when my next one is due.
Thanks.

Hello Zimmy

As far as I'm aware most timing/cam belts should be changed at around 60k or otherwise every five years

The local garage that I use told me the same 60k miles or 5 years but also said would be safer to change after 3 years on low mileage vehicles

Thanks Guys, most helpful.

Out of interest, how much does a cambelt change on a petrol Boxer cost nowadays? I've always done my own in the past but this one looks a right b*gger to work on.

Frank

Just had mine done last week, I was told five years or 100000 miles?
Also budget for a water pump, mine was dribbling apparently (I trust the garage) perhaps I am mad.
Pete

breakaleg wrote:Just had mine done last week, I was told five years or 100000 miles?
Also budget for a water pump, mine was dribbling apparently (I trust the garage) perhaps I am mad.
Pete

How much? with or without the pump?
I replaced the water pump on a BX I used to have, (that engine was a forerunner of the engine in the Symphony) and it was not a pleasant job, it's underneath, at the back and driven off the cambelt. ISTR I replaced the belt while I was at it.

Rgds
Frank

Hi Frank,
Brace yourself, with a full service a new water pump, and the cam belt includes all pulleys etc, just short of £600.00 oh how I laughed when he presented the bill, can't break it down exactly, but the full service was around £150.00 the pump was £200.00 VAT around £113.00 so roughly £140.00 ish.

couple this with the recent bill for delamination, really makes me wonder if its worth it?

What makes things worse is, last may, just before the end of May, we were going on a three week trip to Italy Rome, Venice etc, two days before we were due to leave, I was taken into hospital with acute cellulitis (very painful) and was in or a month, with a slow recovery and no chance of travel insurance etc, this year, my wife has had to have a hysterectomy, (six months on, and she is still struggling) maybe next year eh?
Pete

breakaleg wrote:Hi Frank,
Brace yourself, with a full service a new water pump, and the cam belt includes all pulleys etc, just short of £600.00 oh how I laughed when he presented the bill, can't break it down exactly, but the full service was around £150.00 the pump was £200.00 VAT around £113.00 so roughly £140.00 ish.

Yea Gods Pete that's an expensive water pump! the most expensive one I could find on 'tinternet was £41.40 +Vat and that's not trade. No wonder you couldn't stop laughing. Thanks for the info, I'm tempted to DIY again,(very tempted) I do my own servicing anyway.

breakaleg wrote:What makes things worse is, last may, just before the end of May, we were going on a three week trip to Italy Rome, Venice etc, two days before we were due to leave, I was taken into hospital with acute cellulitis (very painful) and was in or a month, with a slow recovery and no chance of travel insurance etc, this year, my wife has had to have a hysterectomy, (six months on, and she is still struggling) maybe next year eh?
Pete

And I thought we were having a bad year - it all goes to prove that no matter how badly off you think you are, there is always someone worse off than you. I truly hope that things are going to be looking up for you from now on mate.

VBR
Frank

Only thing I can add is make sure you get a competent person to do the work... when we bought our Trident we thought we were being clever by asking the seller to get the cam belt changed and negotiated the buying price to do this, big mistake! We realised after the work had been done the mechanic had only replaced the belt and didn't replace the water pump and tensioners etc.. not trusting the vehicle we promptly decided to get it re-done properly!

We got prices locally but they wanted an arm & a leg to do the work even admiting to using non genuine parts, eventually we emailed all the VW dealerships in Norfolk & Suffolk, oddly the only one that responded was the furthest away in Suffolk but they were helpful and keen to do the work. The final price was £417.58 including replacing the water pump, tensioners and replacing the special G12 VW coolant and giving a 2 yr warranty.

The moral of this story is.. if you get it done make sure it's done properly, the main dealer in our case was actually cheaper than the local garages using non genuine parts, and the service was spot on!

Also, VW state cam belt change every four years or 60.000 whichever is soonest, this may be different for your Peugeot Symphony though

CC

CruizingComet wrote:Only thing I can add is make sure you get a competent person to do the work... when we bought our Trident we thought we were being clever by asking the seller to get the cam belt changed and negotiated the buying price to do this, big mistake! We realised after the work had been done the mechanic had only replaced the belt and didn't replace the water pump and tensioners etc.. not trusting the vehicle we promptly decided to get it re-done properly!

Personally I would not change the pulleys, tensioners and waterpump if there was no need to do so and I consider myself competent around mechanical things. If these items are checked and found unworn, why change them? I suppose if you do your own servicing & repairs as I have always done then if you hear say a tensioner bearing whining you'd replace that if and when, whereas if you go to garage they replace everything that might possibly be worn (and charge you for it) to cover themselves for the 2 years they are giving you a warranty for. It makes sense from their point of view and it makes sense from yours if you are not au fait with the infernal combustion engine.

I don't have a problem with non OEM parts either, although I don't buy cheap rubbish, some non OEM are made to the same or a higher standard than OEM parts, take Gates cambelts for instance, they are much cheaper than Peugeot ones but are probably made in the same factory.

Rgds
Frank

Hi Frank... I read somewhere that Gates make around 80% of the industries cambelts for both manufacturers and the OEM market so fair point.

From my own personal view, you only change your cam belt every 50-60k so why chance not replacing the water pump at the same time? failure of the water pump can cause just as catastrophic engine failure if the pump should seize Personally whenever I travel I want to be reassured that I've maintained my vehicle as best I can to give me reliable and breakdown free journeys. Also, when I come to sell our vehicle I have the valuable service history showing that any service work has been carried out using genuine parts and to the manufacturers recommendations / guidelines, which along with the full service history from new I hope (maybe naively) will add some extra value to our vehicle.

Not mentioned in my earlier post another reason we had it changed was the cam belt that was fitted when we purchased our Trident was not set up correctly either, it came straight from the garage the evening we collected it and they were discussing the difficulties they had setting up the timing so we were not very confident that the work had been carried out to a satisfactory standard. When we collected it from VW after having the work carried out it was a different van altogether, much smoother and even sounded different on both tick over and driving, just my experience for what it's worth

Wish I could be more like you and do my own mechanical work, but in all honesty I wouldn't have the patience or even the inclination

CC

Hi Frank, there was three hours labour included with the cambelt change & they recon all the pulleys come as part of the kit, so Peugot must reccomend that they are changed at the same time as the belt.
Don't forget, I had a full service and the water pump changed, the labour was as much as half the bill.
Pete

Take a look at this thread from MHFacts, some amazing price differences


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Hi Pete & CC
Sorry if I sound cynical lads but when you do work yourself you lose track on what the trade are charging.

I can see your point(s) in that you take your van to a garage and they replace everything in that "area" that may wear out in the next couple of years for your peace of mind (and theirs).
What I'm saying is that the parts they replace as a matter of course could have years and years of serviceable life left in them.
Water pumps seldom seize, they usually fail by leaking - if it ain't leaking don't change it.

Yes Pete, Peugeot do sell a kit with the tensioner pulleys etc. it's £80+ I think, but that does not mean that the tensioners need changing every time the belt does.

Scenario:
You take your van to the garage for a new belt. The garage does not know the state of your motor until they start work on it so they get the complete kit in just in case the tensioners do need replacement. They can't send part of a kit back for refund so they may as well fit the lot, but the parts they throw away could be perfectly servicable.

Frank

Paulmold wrote:Take a look at this thread from MHFacts, some amazing price differences


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Those posts are from 2007 Paul - that's 4 years ago, but yes, there are big differences in cost and opinions of what work needs doing (like here :) )

Frank

Admin wrote:

zimmy wrote:
I last had a cambelt change in March 2007. Can anyone tell me when my next one is due.
Thanks.

Hello Zimmy

As far as I'm aware most timing/cam belts should be changed at around 60k or otherwise every five years

Have to butt in on this one Admin - ALWAYS check with the manufacture for belt change information, it isn't enough just to state the above - up to £2000 repair bill isn't worth the guesswork of when it should be changed. Also worth changing the tensioners on most modern engines or the water pump when it is also cambelt driven - better safe than sorry - just had a colleague tell me his Alfa 147 belt broke at 27,000 miles - not the same engine I know but still a company with Fiat parentage

dandywarhol wrote:

Admin wrote:

zimmy wrote:
I last had a cambelt change in March 2007. Can anyone tell me when my next one is due.
Thanks.

Hello Zimmy

As far as I'm aware most timing/cam belts should be changed at around 60k or otherwise every five years

Have to butt in on this one Admin - ALWAYS check with the manufacture for belt change information, it isn't enough just to state the above - up to £2000 repair bill isn't worth the guesswork of when it should be changed.

Sorry Dandy

Didn't realise my reply had to be that precise!
I was just trying to offer some help, and besides the figures I quoted which are an average guide only, are not really that far out as has since been discussed and confirmed, but point taken anyway

OK who's next

breakaleg wrote:Just had mine done last week, I was told five years or 100000 miles?
Pete

It depends who you ask, main dealers generally have strict specific figures, where as other garages who may not be familiar with different vehicles just tend guess in my experience as I've been told the same.

For what it's worth a cambelt change is not something I would entrust to anybody or any garage, the correct timing setting is crucial in the performance of an engine, engine longevity, smooth running and fuel economy, as an example the guy who fitted the belt on our Trident before we had it ripped off and replaced admitted that VW use a special tool to set the timing, his excuse for struggling to get it running right? I'm no mechanic so don't know if this is true or not? This aside, personally speaking I'm not prepared to take the risk to save a few quid, if someone was quoting me £48.75 labour and £23.50 for the belt + vat as posted in the MHF thread (even if it was posted in 2007) I would be having serious doubts about what kind of job I was getting in return

Blimey, this thread could go on for ever at this rate

boxerman wrote:

CruizingComet wrote:Only thing I can add is make sure you get a competent person to do the work... when we bought our Trident we thought we were being clever by asking the seller to get the cam belt changed and negotiated the buying price to do this, big mistake! We realised after the work had been done the mechanic had only replaced the belt and didn't replace the water pump and tensioners etc.. not trusting the vehicle we promptly decided to get it re-done properly!

Personally I would not change the pulleys, tensioners and waterpump if there was no need to do so and I consider myself competent around mechanical things. If these items are checked and found unworn, why change them? I suppose if you do your own servicing & repairs as I have always done then if you hear say a tensioner bearing whining you'd replace that if and when, whereas if you go to garage they replace everything that might possibly be worn (and charge you for it) to cover themselves for the 2 years they are giving you a warranty for. It makes sense from their point of view and it makes sense from yours if you are not au fait with the infernal combustion engine.

I don't have a problem with non OEM parts either, although I don't buy cheap rubbish, some non OEM are made to the same or a higher standard than OEM parts, take Gates cambelts for instance, they are much cheaper than Peugeot ones but are probably made in the same factory.

Rgds
Frank

I used to think along the same lines as you BM but times - they - are - a - changin' and with modern, plastic pulley tensioners having a finite life then they need to be changed when the belt is done. It's a bit different when you aren't paying labour charges when you do it by yourself but do you really want to do the job all over again just to replace a broken tensioner that should've been changed anyway?

As you probably know, 99% of diesel engines and the majority of modern, high compression petrol engines have an interference fit re. valve train and pistons - in other words, when the belt/tensioner fail the engine parts all start kissing and the £s add up.

CruizingComet wrote:

breakaleg wrote:Just had mine done last week, I was told five years or 100000 miles?
Pete

It depends who you ask, main dealers generally have strict specific figures, where as other garages who may not be familiar with different vehicles just tend guess in my experience as I've been told the same.

For what it's worth a cambelt change is not something I would entrust to anybody or any garage, the correct timing setting is crucial in the performance of an engine, engine longevity, smooth running and fuel economy, as an example the guy who fitted the belt on our Trident before we had it ripped off and replaced admitted that VW use a special tool to set the timing, his excuse for struggling to get it running right? I'm no mechanic so don't know if this is true or not? This aside, personally speaking I'm not prepared to take the risk to save a few quid, if someone was quoting me £48.75 labour and £23.50 for the belt + vat as posted in the MHF thread (even if it was posted in 2007) I would be having serious doubts about what kind of job I was getting in return

Blimey, this thread could go on for ever at this rate

Absolutely correct there CC - VW TDi injection pumps have to be reset to pump at the precise time by remapping the ECU with a tool called VAGCOM - although many other diagnostic/reset instruments can also do it - it's just easier and less time consuming if the VAGCOM is used.

Even replacing a high pressure injector isn't just as straight forward as unscrew and replace - the new injector HAS to be retuned by computer to suit the engine and there's a unique code with the new component to assist you to get it right to restore performance/economy/emissions back to "as new" When you consider these injectors/pumps are pressurising the fuel to 35,000 PSI, it needs to be right......................

Maybe we should be buying classic motorhomes with contact breaker points and carbs eh?

dandywarhol wrote:Absolutely correct there CC - VW TDi injection pumps have to be reset to pump at the precise time by remapping the ECU with a tool called VAGCOM - although many other diagnostic/reset instruments can also do it - it's just easier and less time consuming if the VAGCOM is used.

Even replacing a high pressure injector isn't just as straight forward as unscrew and replace - the new injector HAS to be retuned by computer to suit the engine and there's a unique code with the new component to assist you to get it right to restore performance/economy/emissions back to "as new" When you consider these injectors/pumps are pressurising the fuel to 35,000 PSI, it needs to be right......................

Maybe we should be buying classic motorhomes with contact breaker points and carbs eh?

Thanks for clarifying dandy, thought to be honest it was some kind of specialist VW tool or instrument, but now you mention the VAGCOM diagnostics thing I recall this being discussed elsewhere.
Contact breaker points and carbs?? Way too young to remember such things Only kidding, had a Ford Escort MK1 (my 1st car) with a 1.6 Mexico engine in it in my younger years with twin carb webbers, those three words mean so little now but back then it was sheer sexyness

Independent garages do not guess at settings or intervals, they usually use an "electronic workshop manual" which covers a multitude of vehicles, I have an old copy which covers vehicles up to 2004, as my van is 1995 it suits my purpose just fine.

The recommended interval given is 72,000 mls for normal conditions or 60,000 for adverse conditions (don't ask, don't know) repair time is given as 2hrs 50mins it makes no mention of changing the tensioner pulley or waterpump.

I also have a copy of the Peugeot electronic workshop manual, and that makes no mention of replacing the tensioner pulleys or waterpump when changing the belt either.

My van is a 1995 model, hardly in the first flush of youth, when I bought it, it came with a sheaf of invoices for work done for the previous owner. Although the belt had been changed, there was no mention of the waterpump so I assume that the one fitted now is the original one - 16 years old?

I am talking here about my 16 year old petrol engined Boxer, not the latest common rail turbo diesel or these complex VW machines.

To be honest, without meaning to be disrespectful I don't care if you all think I'm incompetent or not, I asked the original question "how much did it cost" to see if it was worth paying someone else to do the job and save getting my hands dirty. I have decided that I'd be better off doing it myself, which is what I'll do.

BTW CC I agree that the first guy who did yours must have been a cowboy, but not all independent garages are cowboys

Frank

Hi frank

Nobody is suggesting you are incompetent, please don't think that mate? My comments are not even directed at you but the subject we are discussing, it's so easy for things to get misconstrued on these forums because some people communicate better than others, unfortunately I fall into the later camp You should ask MrsCC My comments are solely aimed at other members in they hope they wont fall foul of the same scenario

Your comment about Independant garages not guessing at settings or intervals is correct, except in a situation where you may ask a mechanic while he is busy working and he doesn't really have the time or the interest to stop doing what he's doing to refer to a workshop manual. I personally have been quoted different service intervals and it was only when I went to VW I got a definite and reassuring figure, so I'm only speaking from my own experience.

Glad to hear you are going to do your own belt, keep us updated on how it goes, to be honest if I were more mechanically minded I would have a go at my own to be truthful, as I have difficulty trusting anyone to do a thorough job if I'm totally honest. While I found the first VW dealership to be spot on and couldn't fault them, on a second occasion it went into our nearest VW dealership for a service and to be honest I may as well have driven it into the local school playground and let the kids loose on it, long story but I complained to the branch manager, then took it to VW HQ but got absolutely no where, the excuse being they are only franchises and as such VW can't really be responsible for them, but my comments were noted for all the good it done me

Anyway... it's late and I'm now off to bed

I wasn't knocking you either boxerman - although I addressed you personally 2 posts back I was really replying back to Admin's post generalising cam belt replacement intervals and which he duly replied.

The jist of my concern is that people don't always read all the posts in a thread and may pick up on general information.