Fitting Reversing Camera/Sensors

Hi Baz

 

I have recently bought a 2008 Symbol and joined ASOF.

The van has a Fiamma bike rack and a removable box, which is very handy in providing additional storage when touring for longer periods.

However, with the box fitted the visibility out of the rear windows is almost non-existent.

To improve rear visibility when driving/parking I am considering installing one of the several reversing cameras/reversing sensors that are now available on the general market and wondered if any other members have researched or even completed such an installation.  Brief discussion with Auto Sleepers suggested that carrying out such a modification could be quite a challenge for the average owner but as a competent DIYer I am keen to see what the options are.

 

Grateful for any information or experience from other ASOF members.

i have also considered a reversing camera,and thought that the wireless option would be easier to fit.i saw somewhere on line (youtube i think) where it said that 18 led camera lights were the best option and also something about waterproofness but i can't remember that bit.bit vague i know hopefully someone else can give us both more insight.
                                     Mick

mickenbacker 330 wrote:i have also considered a reversing camera,and thought that the wireless option would be easier to fit.i saw somewhere on line (youtube i think) where it said that 18 led camera lights were the best option and also something about waterproofness but i can't remember that bit.bit vague i know hopefully someone else can give us both more insight.
                                     Mick

Hi Mick

Although WiFi/Bluetooth options may be simpler the problem I discussed with Auto Sleepers is getting the power supply to the camera at the rear of the van and the display unit in the cab without stripping large parts of the internal fittings apart.   
 
Any other members got any comments?

Jerry

Our Symbol came with the factory fitted option - Veba is the make I think.  Ours gives up in hot weather so I wouldn't recommend, if you search on the forums for Veba You'll see the feedback is not always good.

Wireless set ups are prone to interference and as mentioned you still have to run a positive feed for power to the camera. If you search this forum you will find several posts on reversing cameras. With care it is possible to install the wiring from the camera carefully down the rear interior of the van and out underneath. Run the cable underneath to the front of the van and back up into the van to the display mounted on the dash.

You can get digital wireless cameras that do not suffer from interference.

ubuntu1 wrote:You can get digital wireless cameras that do not suffer from interference.

It would be nice if you would quote some models, prices and sellers (especially if they were from personal experience).

A battery powered system is available, looks good, but quite pricey!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

jerryf wrote:Hi Baz

 

I have recently bought a 2008 Symbol and joined ASOF.

The van has a Fiamma bike rack and a removable box, which is very handy in providing additional storage when touring for longer periods.

However, with the box fitted the visibility out of the rear windows is almost non-existent.

To improve rear visibility when driving/parking I am considering installing one of the several reversing cameras/reversing sensors that are now available on the general market and wondered if any other members have researched or even completed such an installation.  Brief discussion with Auto Sleepers suggested that carrying out such a modification could be quite a challenge for the average owner but as a competent DIYer I am keen to see what the options are.

 

Grateful for any information or experience from other ASOF members.

I have a camera fitted as standard on the el duo... my verdict would be OK it does what it's meant to do.On the previous M/H i had one of these [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and can only say it was the best camera i had ever seen and used especially with two cameras set at different angles.

I fitted a camera kit VT56 by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I got used on Ebay. quality piece of kit and I use it all the time as a mirror (it has a reversible image facility) to my Clubman.

I led the cable down the side of the heater flue, into the wardrobe and under the seats to the cab.

Very reliable (apart from a spider nesting behind the camera and spinning it's web across the lens   ) and with 6 leds at night it is perfectly usable - I wouldn't be without it.

Many thanks for feedback so far.

Nervous of damaging our recently purchased van I have contacted a couple of commercial installers with the following
results:

Marquis (Southampton) - £695 to supply and fit a Veba twin camera and 7" mirror monitor wired system.  Took some time to
get any specs from them but the camera is a Veba AVCAMIRFW model and the monitor is the Veba AVMM 7" unit I think. As far
as I can tell this is the option included in the AS premium package upgrade option.

Motorplus Motorhomes (Derby) - £499 to supply and fit a Vision twin camera and 7" monitor wired system (Vision 364 system I
think).  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

With a £200 difference in price I tried to look at the differences between the 2 offers although it was a struggle finding
the real specs.  The main difference appears to be in the size and quality of the monitor.  The Veba moniitor is 260x106x30
mm with a resolution of 600x480 (ignoring the misleading RGB factor used in the promotional blurb) and the Vision monitor
is 170x115x20 mm with a resolution of 480x234 (again ignoring the RGB factor).
Do any other members have any experience or comments on either of the above systems?

I have also read several comments regarding mirror versus dashboard mounted monitors, with the dashboard option suffering
much less from glare, lack of contrast in bright conditions and vibration. As the existing rearview mirror provides no real
view out of the back of the van I am considering whether it would be better to have a dashboard mounted monitor.  Any
views from other members welcomed on this as well.
 

Can either system reverse the image to use as a mirror?

Motorplus Motorhomes (Derby) - £499 to supply and fit a Vision twin camera and 7" monitor wired system.
If you can fit it yourself this one is cheaper [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I have just bought the twin camera with the 7" rear view mirror monitor that was recommended by broadwayelduo that he had on his previous van, I am having it fitted by RhinoInstalls  ,next Tuesday,  they come round to your house to fit it, saves travelling, Paul has a very good reputation.A lot cheaper than you have been quoted camera as well as fitting combined. There are several photos on here that members have fitted themselves, I didn`t know how to, so going the professional route,

I tried my sat nav on the dash board in the position that a lot have theirs camera monitors in,  next to drivers door pillar, didn`t work for me, got bad reflection especially from the sun ,wasn`t comfortable for me,  rear view mirror seems more natural to me , each to their own, what you find is best for you.

Good luck,
Margaret

Jerryf
Why not  power the sensors and the associated electronics  by tapping into the reverse lamp wiring.
The supply is only required when reversing , and if you choose  a product with a loud loudspeaker/bleeper , it can be located at the rear of the motorhome.

I've got a wireless system on my 2008 Warwick, whoever installed it took the power cable for the camera in where the high level brake light is mounted, they filed a small part of the plastic surround and then back filled with black silicone, the cable is routed down the nearside pillar to the light cluster, easy to get at in a Warwick, might be trickier in a symbol, originally it was wired into the reverse lights but I wanted the option of having it on at any time so changed the feed to the side light, the monitor is mounted to the right of the driver and simply needs a switched supply, on the whole the picture is good, I hope this helps.

Neil

daisy mae wrote:I have just bought the twin camera with the 7" rear view mirror monitor that was recommended by broadwayelduo that he had on his previous van, I am having it fitted by RhinoInstalls  ,next Tuesday,  they come round to your house to fit it, saves travelling, Paul has a very good reputation.A lot cheaper than you have been quoted camera as well as fitting combined. There are several photos on here that members have fitted themselves, I didn`t know how to, so going the professional route,

I tried my sat nav on the dash board in the position that a lot have theirs camera monitors in,  next to drivers door pillar, didn`t work for me, got bad reflection especially from the sun ,wasn`t comfortable for me,  rear view mirror seems more natural to me , each to their own, what you find is best for you.

Good luck,
Margaret

Pleased to see you have found someone to fit it Margaret...now you can start useing reverse gear 

Here is a bit of an update on where I have got to on this after further research and a quick question for other members.

IMO the best value deal at the moment appears to be the SN RKIT4 model below from Sniper Automotive and is the one that both broadwayelduo mentioned and that Margaret is having fitted.  (Thanks to Margaret for her additional info on this system)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This model is available from several dealer websites and ebay such as those below:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Living Leisure offer an installation service by a team called Leisure Installs ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]) who have provided a very competitive quote for installing the above system on our Symbol van.

Has anyone ever had any experience of Leisure-Installs?  Send PM if that is more appropriate rather than open comment on the forum

Best regards
Jerry Foster

This (rather long) post is intended as the closing comments on fitting a reversing/rear view camera to our 2008 Symbol which has very little rear view out the back and almost none when the bike box is fitted onto the rack.

Firstly a big thank you to all those forum members who responded to my original post, your information and comments were
very helpful in coming to a decision about what to buy and how to get it fitted, which was a Sniper Automotive SN RKIT4 system bought from eBay which I had fitted by RhinoInstalls.  I bought the kit from ebay at the link below and the supplier gave a quick turnround on both the original system and a replacement monitor as the first one had a display fault.

For anyone else thinking about having a similar system fitted here are my own comments and experience of the process.

Which system to get?

1.  It is virtually impossible to get a demonstration of how a system will perform under various driving conditions on your
own van unless you are lucky enough to find someone with the same van and system already fitted.  Manufacturer technical
specifications can give some details of eventual performance but the final purchase decision is still going to be something
of a dilemma.

2.  There is a large range of systems available from the very cheap/cheerful single reversing camera only systems with a
small B/W display monitor to very expensive twin camera systems operating in full colour with a large monitor capable of
both daytime and night time use.  The main cost drivers here are basically:

a.  Black and White or Colour.
b.  The type of camera(s) and viewing angle/definition they can provide.  CCD cameras give the best image with CMOS
providing a cheaper alternative. 120 degrees angle for rear view is a good bet and 90 should suffice for the rear view.
c.  The resolution and brightness of the display monitor.  Some displays are pretty poor resolution/brightness but top end
systems can provide a resolution similar to laptop displays
d.  Additional electronics in either the camera(s) or monitor to deal with glare and bright sunlight/headlights at night.

Which system you opt for will be driven by budget available and reason for buying the system (e.g. just for reversing or
for more general rear view monitoring)

3.  The cost of having the system fitted professionally is likely to be at least equal to the cost of a mid-range system,
or more than the cost of a budget system.  Having elected to get the system installed professionally I am glad that I did. 
What took just over 2 hours with RhinoInstalls would have taken me (an experienced DIY'er and car servicer) at least a day
and possibly much longer.  The main difficulty is routing the cables and without knowledge of the van's internal structure
and wiring runs this could be a real nightmare.  It still took nearly an hour to get the cable from the camera down the
rear pillar of the van before it could then be run underneath to the drivers position and then brought back inside (having
drilled a hole to do so) before wiring into the main electrical supply. RhinoInstalls did a good job with no fuss and was
happy to let me see what was going where so that I could fix any problems/modifications in the future.  Having seen it done
once I would be happy to do my own install the next time.

The SN RKIT4 is a reasonable compromise for a low/mid range twin camera colour system with night capability but does have
its limitations (see comments on use in next section).

System in Use

1.  Overall the system performs pretty well and when set up correctly covers the blind spots behind the van so that when combined with the rear view mirrors you can see pretty well everything you need to drive in a safe fashion.  It has certainly allowed me to reverse out of the drive onto the road unaided, reverse into a tight pitch without hitting a tree/bushes and also get out of a tight parking spot in a car park recently.

2.  CCD cameras/systems suffer from a thing called blooming/smearing when they get overloaded by bright light.  Blooming
produces a bright spot on the monitor and smearing produces vertical lines emanating from the bright spot.  Expensive
cameras reduce this by having variable apertures or electronics to counteract the effect.  The SN RKIT4 does have a
tendency to exhibit this problem especially when picking up bright reflections from other objects/vehicles.  It also
suffers a bit when illuminated by the headlights of following cars at night.  I minimise this by making sure that the
reversing camera looked almost straight down (giving a view of about 2.5mts behind) and the rear view camera did not look too far behind (out to about 20mts) so that it did not pick up bright sky or multiple headlights.  I would recommend setting up the cameras so that there is a bit of overlap between the view from the reversing camera/rear view camera and again between the rear view camera/wing mirrors but do not try and use the rear view camera to replace the view from the rear view mirrors completely.

3.  The amount of adjustment provided by the supplied bracket is constrained by the slots provided and the step adjustment between the two cameras, so my own setup is but of a compromise.  I can imagine that unless this system is mounted on a vertical (or nearly) surface at the the rear of the vehicle then getting the required adjustment might be difficult.  This was not something I had considered when buying the system but worth checking before buying.  More expensive systems seem to provide more flexible almost continuous adjustment for a vafriety of fixing positions.

4.  The bracket supplied with the system appears to be low grade mild steel with a poor paint finish which gets scraped and chipped when adjusting the cameras.  On advice from Daisy Mae I gave mine 4 coats of metal lacquer which so far seems to have prevented any corrosion.  There is a company that supplies what looks like the same system but with a stainless steel bracket so this is another aspect to be aware of.  Having to replace an expensive camera system for the sake of a rusting mounting bracket could be annoying.

5.  The camera adjustment screws are stainless steel but the bracket slots and camera casing into which they fit is aluminium (or alloy of some sort) and not very well aligned.  Great care is needed to make sure that when adjusting the camera positions that the threads in the camera body does not become stripped.  If possible it is a good idea to preset the positions before the camera is finally fitted to the van to prevent messing with small screws and washers at the top of a wobbly ladder.

6.  The colour rendition from the cameras/display is OK but not brilliant and I am wondering if it adds any real benefit.  The addditional cost for colour might be better spent on a better quality camera/mounting.

7.  The brightness of the monitor display itself is OK and can be viewed in most conditions but the windscreen anti contrast shielding fitted as standard to the van for a standard rear view mirror benefits from being extended by using anti glare film across the top of the windscreen to improve viewing in bright conditions with the sun in front of the van.

8.  If at all possible give the system a bench test before fitting to the actual van.  It helped me sort out a display problem with the supplier immediately and can help prevent any issues once it has been installed by anyone other than the supplier.

So, overall it was definitely worth the cost (approx. £320 incl fitting) and effort of researching and getting the system fitted.  An advantage of buying from eBay was that I got an extended 3 yr warranty for £30 which is well worth the money should the system fail.  How long such a mid range system will continue to perform remains to be seen but the electronics inside many of the more expensive systems is the same/similar to this system but with a different supplier badge.

This is the difgital wireless system I mentioned above - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hi Everyone from a newbe,
I have fitted a reversing camera to my Duetto and found it to be very straightforward. Purchased mine for under £50 on Ebay making sure the cable from camera to screen was long enough and got it working on the kitchen table to see 'what went where' before attacking the van.
Camera - made a bracket and fitted to the side of the fridge using one of the existing screws facing the rear window. The camera is not central (so the image on the screen has the same offset) but I have no problems with it.
Remove the vertical panel at the rear above the worktop (two screws, the bottom one is for a stud only) and join the camera plug to the main cable and earth to the rear door light push switch. the main cable is black with a red wire poking out, this will be the 12v feed, see later.
On my Duetto there is a horizontal cover 60mm or so deep running along the right side above the side windows, partly undo the screws after popping off the covers, don't remove.
Feed the main cable along the top of the screws from rear to front, then round the door pillar and tuck into the false flat roof over the drivers seat (excess cable can be pushed into this void).
A post - undo screw at top of A post grey plastic finisher, pull plastic up and in to van centre and it will come away and expect the rubber strip to fall off but don't worry it's easy to refit later.
Screen - I have fitted mine to the sun visor so that when down I can view what's behind but you will have to make spacers between visor and ceiling for the screen to fit. Plug all wires together so they are conveniently behind the finisher, don't tape the lot together as I did, too bulky.
12v Feed - I took mine from the position 2 ignition feed through a tell tale lighted on/off switch on the dash to the main wire 'junction' behind the finisher, my choice as I don't have to select reverse before the screen comes on. the red wire appears from the main black cable at each end, ideal as a 12v feed to be camera. when satisfied all is working refit the plastic a post finisher and rubber strip, a screwdriver helps gently pushing in the strip.
Important- do a dummy run before fitting to the van as then everything becomes obvious using a spare 12v battery or even a charger just to see if it works properly  - or not!. No extra holes needed, all still looking original.
Simples.

Hi Inti440

Great job.

Thanks for your post which gives another view/experience of going about this tricky task.

Sounds like running the cables might be a bit easier on a Duetto than the Symbol which lacks any easily removable panels or mounting point inside the van.

Happy motoring
Jerry

Decide whether you want a rear view or a reversing system.  Big difference.  VEBA are very good until they stop working...
Pete

Following on from  pjkxpjkx's post one thing I forget to mention is that according to the Peugeot Boxer handbook that came with our van there is a Peugeot reversing only camera option that can be fitted to any camera based on the Boxer chassis.  It replaces the normal high level brake light with an integrated brake light and colour reversing camera and either a 4inch or 6.5 inch pull down display in the cab.

When I mentioned this to AutoSleeper thay did not seem aware of the option and I did not investigate it any further myself but for anyone just wanting a reversing camera it could be another option.

Best regards
Jerryf

I fitted a reversing camera which had guide lines and a visual digital count down distance (250mm increments) as well as a distance sensor remote buzzer which pick up when 2 meters from objects behind (just a single sensor alongside the camera lens) .

I fitted the camera up under the number plate top plastic valance of our 2009 Symbol feeding the wires through existing holes for the
number plate lights then into the side wall via the curved  sliding wiring loom feed hinged tube to the door and connected to the live on reversing light. ran the remote buzzer cable and video/power lead around the door rubber and located buzzer and radio sender at the top of the toilet side wall all very neat.

I like to use a clip on video screen that is attached onto the rear view mirror to which I ran a power feed from the fuse box around the windscreen and along the upper front storage shelf mounting the radio receiver onto the central upright again all very neat .

When I need the camera I simply touch the screen which turns it on and as soon as I  put the gearstick into reverse the picture is there perfectly clear day and night without any major interference .

It works great and prevents me worrying about my rear step doing any damage and makes revering a doddle .

Took me about 4-5 hours to install .
No drilling or damage to the Symbol

The camera with sensor cost  £32  on eBay the screen and radio kit about £45-50 Amazon  a year ago (not declared as interference free ) and used when I was Tugging on my 4x4 and as rear view in the caravan whilst driving some 35 ft behind the sender with twin cameras .