GUTTED Stolen Harmony

Heres the thing bought our lovely Harmony a few weeks ago did all the usual checks paid Experian for a full HPI inc any finance outstanding and happy to say all was green light,then did a seperate VIN number only more expense but thought it was well worth it(think you know where this is going now)went down to big london to check it out and to see if it was as nice as the very nice bloke had told me it was,first saw it on a classified add on Ebay,anyway everything checked out great and bought it £9k,brought it home and the other day took my bit of the V5 tot he Tax office to buy some road tax.Thats when it all went wrong the police arrived and imformed me the V5 was a forgery,I then went home in the knowledge that in the next couple of days the police dept that do vehicle checks for identity would be visiting me.

In the meantime I had taken out the step where the VIN is stamped and it looked perfect as original should be then I got my magnet and sure enough it attached great,this cheered me up,I then took the passenger step out and checked the colour any seant used in the factory etc and again it looked great,now remember whilst Im not an expert I am not an idiot either and it looked perfect to me. Anyway along they came and straight away scratched the Vin in the step and like me was happy after several other probes and prods they went back to the step and said can we hit it with a hammer I reluctantly agreed,then after about 15 mins of a lump hammer and cold chissell the VIN number stamped in the step started to part BINGO,we have a stolen camper it turns out to be a stolen 1996 not 2001,so they took it away,and thats it up to Sunday when they are coming for a statement.

I am writing this painful post to ask for any advice I have trawled the internet and heard of people taking the insurance company to court as the camper was bought in good faith for a fair price....let me know your thoughts please...Algy..P.S the bobby said if its any consolation it probably the best Fake VIN he has ever seen and that lets be honest you cant take a lump hammer with you to a purchase....cheers.

Very sorry to hear that Algy, have been on the end of a similar experience myself many years ago so know exactly how it feels.

Let's hope this acts as a warning to other members to be more vigilant when making such a big purchase.

Probably all you can do is sue the seller, if you or the police can prove he/she knew it was stolen, but not certain on this.

Thats bad news Algy, these b........... want shooting. I would be very sick if I had paid for an HPI check and this happened as these companies seem to have a link with Swansea so should this not show up an iffy vehicle ?
Anyway that doesnt help your situation sorry

I feel for you and hope you can get some retribution. This sort of thing hurts a lot of people initially the people it was stolen off, with luck they may have been paid out by the insurance company. Wishing you the very best in getting either the van or your money back.

Whisky.

roli wrote:Thats bad news Algy, these b........... want shooting. I would be very sick if I had paid for an HPI check and this happened as these companies seem to have a link with Swansea so should this not show up an iffy vehicle ?
Anyway that doesnt help your situation sorry

Ditto about the bad news - unfortunately the VIN number and reg. number given to the HPI company will check out if it's been from a "straight" vehicle.

Worth checking the cab glass when buying any vehicle - 99% of glass is date stamped.

Often looks like .....1, which denotes year 1 of that particular decade, ...3 is year 3 etc.
Or the word TEMPERED or LAMINATED with a dot below one of the letters - this also denotes the year of the decade. If the dot is not below a letter then it's the year zero of the decade. It's unusual that all the glass would be replaced on any vehicle and if none of it matches up then the vehicle's been a rebuild from used parts.

Hope that helps anyone else and I'm gutted for you Algy.

Alan

Hi there,

We should all be thinking "There but for the grace of God go I."

And on a more sober note if any of you have bought anything on the cheap knowing or suspecting that it may be "dodgy" then, in your own small way, you have contributed to the problem.

For every single person innocently caught out in a scam there are a hundred people who knowingly buy "iffy" goods!

Just tell the next one to "go forth and multiply" and do your bit against crime.

Best regards,

Dutto

Dutto wrote:


And on a more sober note if any of you have bought anything on the cheap knowing or suspecting that it may be "dodgy" then, in your own small way, you have contributed to the problem.

It seems to me that Algy bought his van IN GOOD FAITH Dutto so a lecture on morals is the last thing the poor fella (or anyone for that matter) needs at the moment.
We all know we shouldn't buy iffy goods but as far as Algy was concerned it was genuine.
Stevo

Hi algy

Firstly really sorry to hear whats happened it really is a worrying experience buying a used vehicle! I think if I were to buy another vehicle of higher value I would have a vehicle inspection by the AA (or similar) carried out, don't know for certain but I would hope they would pick something like this out hopefully???

What about the seller.. What is he saying about all this?
Also, what is the likelihood of you getting compensation from or suing ebay is that a possibility? Have you sought any legal advice or spoke to someone like CAB maybe to see if they can give you any guidance?

Hope you can get your money back, and this is not the end of your Auto-Sleeper experience as that would be such a shame

Good Luck

CC

First of all I bought this camper in good faith and if 9k is cheap then.. Dutto we must be on a different pay scale,if I had thought for one split second something was wrong do you seriously think I would have bought it (get real)I am as straight as they come and am offended by your implications....
Stevo re the Ebay thing the CID are looking into that and the sellers address at the moment,regarding the AA in inspection,according to the vehicle inspector no one unless armed with a lump hammer and chissel would have suspected anything as my earlier post they said it was so proffessional and one of the best they had seen.Its early days yet and I thing legal advice is whats needed,with a bit of luck maybe just maybe the insurance company might sell it back to me for a nominal price,cheers Algy

algy wrote:,with a bit of luck maybe just maybe the insurance company might sell it back to me for a nominal price,cheers Algy

I PM'd Algy on this possibility yesterday. A friend of mine bought a caravan for £5000 off ebay which only came to light when he went to register it with CRIS. Police visits followed and by this time the insurance company had paid out to the owner. The insurance company said it now belonged to them and it would be picked up. After 2 weeks and hearing no more, my friend contacted the insurance company and told them he would be charging storage at £50 per day if it was not collected within 7 days. They responded by offering to let him buy it for £500, a much better result than losing £5000.
This might, just might, be a possibility for Algy if the insurance company has already paid out and bearing in mind that the van is a lot older than first thought and therefore of less value.

Lets hope so Paul,not only is it older it will be on the HPI stolen recovered list,but at least if I bought it back I would know for certain that it is what it is supposed to be,really it would all depend on how much they would want then of course it would need an MOT number plates etc its early days the police have it at a local compound so I dont know when they will do there bits and bobs they want to finger print it etc.I know the bloke who sold it to me had his hands all over it showing me lockers blinds and everything else,but that would only matter if he is on the fingerprint data base.I am assuming he dosent live where I bought the camper from but the police are checking that one.cheers Paul..regards..Algy

I think what dutto is saying that when dealers (and some private sellers) are asking from £15k to 19k for a 2001 Harmony then £9000 is far too cheap unless it has a history.

BUT, it's all to easy to fall into the "must have" trap when you really want something.

I hope Ebay take this seriously and I think they will.

Dutto wrote:For every single person innocently caught out in a scam there are a hundred people who knowingly buy "iffy" goods!

The last thing I was doing was "moralising" - just stating a fact.

Ditto with the comment "There but for the grace of God . . . . . " as none of are immune and we can all get caught out.

BUT, on the small things we CAN have a positive input.

Best regards,

Dutto

algy wrote:. . . if I had thought for one split second something was wrong do you seriously think I would have bought it . . .

Algy,

Almost everyone seems to have misread my post.

I didn't in any way intimate that the van was cheaper than could be expected, or that you were in any way to blame for getting scammed.

I suggest everyone goes back and reads what I actually wrote, stop getting upset with me and punches the next person that offers them "iffy" goods in the throat!

Best regards,

Dutto

dandywarhol wrote:I think what dutto is saying that when dealers (and some private sellers) are asking from £15k to 19k for a 2001 Harmony then £9000 is far too cheap unless it has a history.

BUT, it's all to easy to fall into the "must have" trap when you really want something.

I hope Ebay take this seriously and I think they will.

Having just checked on Ebay for Symphony/Harmony/Rambler/Symbol , prices for a 2001 from a dealer are around the £16k/£19k mark, privately there is a Rambler for £10995. Could you beat the seller down to £9000? Possibly, if they need a quick sale in order to buy their next van at a 'no part ex' deal. I know my van would still sell at a dealer for around £13995 and its a 1997 but I wouldn't get more than £9K part ex, so do I sell at £9000 so I can go and get perhaps £2000 or more off my next van if I had no part ex? It's all too easy to say Algy's was too cheap, we don't know what tale the seller came up with to justify the price and whether we would have been taken in.

The very nice man(obviously hand picked for the job) that sold me the camper told me the tale that it belonged to his father that had recently passed away,he had all the passed mot's about eight of them all the mileage followed on,he had an answer for every question I rose.Saying that he been the only son it was left to him to sell it and share the proceeds with his sister.(all a pack of lies obviously)remember hindsight is a wonderful thing and its easy to sit back and thing maybe I should of done this or that,but short of phisically attacking the campers VIN stamp in the step I did everthing I could have done ie a 30 quid HPI and a 6 quid just VIN check all checking out with big green ticks..I had actually bid on another AS on Ebay this seller also had just lost his father,begs the question was this a wrong un also who knows I went to 9.5k this was on a 2001 also but he wanted a bit more so I didnt win the auction.

Algy,
A truly awful experience - I feel for you. I hope that somehow it gets sorted to your benefit. Please keep us informed.

squip

Reading the posts its easy to say the obvious and its easy to judge after the event but lets all not forget Algy is the real victim here. we should all be sympathetic it could have happened to anyone.

Whisky.

Oh Algy

you poor thing - I would be devastated, just as you are. You were so chuffed when you brought it as well, posting all about it on here asking question etc - I really feel for you. Hope it turns out good in the end - keep us all informed.

Waves

Just to say what a great lot you are...thanks for all your support I will keep you updated as it happens thanks again everyone ..best regards..Algy

Algy

We really are sorry to hear about this, and do hope you can get things sorted out. Take care.

VRH

Algy

CC told me about this today - my deepest sympathy goes out to you - hope you managed to get something back from this truly awful situation. My heart goes out to you.

Mrs CC

What a nightmare! you have my deepest sympathy.

In hindsight and isn't that a wonderfull thing, when parting with such large sums of money, I would always inist on paying by cheque, and would take a camera and ask if the seller would object to me taking their photo. If they refused or were in anyway reluctant I would walk away from the sale.

Here is the first update...The police came to our house yesterday and took a statement of the events,he told me that they have lifted several fingerprints from the camper and have taken away the reg plates as they had several prints behind them,he also informed me that the camper had been stolen from Farnborough in Hampshire,quite close to where I bought it from.He gave me the original reg number (a P so 1996)and ended the statement with that I wanted to be kept informed throughout the investigation,all of the MOT'S that I had were taken away also he explained that CID in Hampshire had been assigned the case and so everthing will go there.I had permission to get my sunblind organiser from the camper which is in a holding pound about 5 miles away,when I got there and saw it ...it looked a right sad state really dirty and covered in the dust they use on fingerprinting...thats it for now folks the bobby said nothing will happen overnight so to be patient,I want to know the insurance company (does anyone knoww if I can find this out)so that I can make inroads to buying it back...cheers...Algy

Algy I assume you had taken out insurance yourself contact them (if not already done so ) ask them for the previous insurance details.
I thought the police could have given it you as it would be on the stolen vehicle list and see no reason why they could not give you this information so try the police man that you gave your statement to.

If I remember correctly you said it all started when you went to tax so was there no tax how did you get it from London did you drive with no tax and insurance ?

Alf