suspension springs

Hi folks, not sure what the correct name for them is but on my last mot I had an advisory about the coil springs (above the wheels in upright position, not the leaf springs) saying rusted etc, they still look pretty strong but i know my ex's car had one snap without even knowing while we were towing a 25ft caravan through to scotland, and only realised after we were home and decided the Peugeot 4007 looked slightly off kilter when stood on the drive, I cant see its a major problem myself as its only an advisory but was wondering if anyone had had these replaced at all and if so how much did it set you back??

Regards

Neil

Hi Niel, are you saying that you have coil springs at the back, or are you talking about the ones on the McPherson struts at the front?

Frank

Hi, I am a mot tester myself if it just the paint coming (surface rust) of I would not worry if the spring has reduced in thickness through deep rust then i personaly would of failed it. Hope this helps:big thumbs up:

sorry yes, I have the normal leaf springs at the back and coil springs (never noticed a strut tbf) at the front, They dont seem to be any thinner than others I have seen and looks to be just surface rust (although in all fairness I thought the same about a lot of the body work and I was very wrong about that lol) Is it safe to assume as its an advisory rather than a fail that they are ok? I seem to remember it said the same on last years MOT too 

It is so common for springs to snap on vehicles these days, if they start showing signs of corrosion then it allways worth a pass and advise, I would recomend if you do get them replaced then use mail dealer parts if you use after market springs you will probley find you get another advisory in a couple of years for corrosion.

Any chance of a pic?

thanks astrag, what is the official name for the springs so i don't sound like a total blonde when i ring the dealers?

unfortunately I don't have the van with me at the moment and even if i took a pic the numpty that did the respray areas decided to not protect by the wheel area so the springs now have a light coating of white paint speckles so its difficult to tell what condition they are from a photo 

Neil

In my opinion.....................don't worry.
Any metallic item is going to get rust on it. (Brake discs etc)
It's just the MOT 'copout' with advisories.

My car has just passed it's MOT yesterday (5 years old) and for the first time I've got two advisories.
1. Unable to inspect underside of engine area due to fitted cover tray.
2. Unable to inspect underfloor due to fitted cover tray.

Covers fitted as supplied by vehicle manufacturer.

There also has been a thread about 'play' in wheel bearings.

I've had many dealings with MOT, PCV and HGV Testers over the years.......they can (and do) advise on anything.

Rest in peace!   

PB

BTW. Just call them Front Coil Springs

I have to say PB i'm inclined to agree with you, particularly as the first MOT she had done came up with "bottle washer cap missing" and "rear number plate cracked" as advisories, Ironically the fact that at that point the reversing lights were not working didn't seem to be an issue for them . . . . . .(that issue was rectified in 3 min by plugging the cable back onto the gear box lmao) 

Harper22 wrote:I have to say PB i'm inclined to agree with you, particularly as the first MOT she had done came up with "bottle washer cap missing" and "rear number plate cracked" as advisories, Ironically the fact that at that point the reversing lights were not working didn't seem to be an issue for them . . . . . .(that issue was rectified in 3 min by plugging the cable back onto the gear box lmao) 

I don't think reversing lights were ever a tested item, certainly I've never had mine tested but I believe a lot of things changed at the beginning of this year and now it's a case of 'if it's fitted, it should work' so maybe it's different now.

Hi I had the rear coil springs replaced last year as one of them had broken I think it cost me about £60 at my local garage
mike
vwt4

Reversing lights are not a testable item, nor I believe rear number plate lamp.
However, if you use the vehicle on the road and it is not working, it is an offence!!

BTW, HGV and PCV vehicles will not require to have a smoke test if the exhaust emission 'looks' OK.
It will also be up to the Tester if they jack the vehicle up to check the front axle operation!
(That'll be alright then???)

PB

Omg really???? Yeh let's just say its fine eh   You would think reverse lights were kind of important lol


Mike that's really reasonable:up!:  I was dreading a bill similar to last few 

Hi, I replaced one of my rear coil springs earlier this year on my VWT25 it was a very simple job. Jack it up, remove the wheel, chock the other wheel, release the hand brake, remove the lower bolt on the shock absorber, the spring can then be replaced and everything put back.

Shubberdog wrote:Hi, I replaced one of my rear coil springs earlier this year on my VWT25 it was a very simple job. Jack it up, remove the wheel, chock the other wheel, release the hand brake, remove the lower bolt on the shock absorber, the spring can then be replaced and everything put back.

We're not talking about rear springs, we are talking about front springs. The front spring on a Boxer is a replaceable part of a McPherson strut which has to be removed and dismantled to replace the spring.

Frank

Harper22 wrote:Hi folks, not sure what the correct name for them is but on my last mot I had an advisory about the coil springs (above the wheels in upright position, not the leaf springs) saying rusted etc, they still look pretty strong but i know my ex's car had one snap without even knowing while we were towing a 25ft caravan through to scotland, and only realised after we were home and decided the Peugeot 4007 looked slightly off kilter when stood on the drive, I cant see its a major problem myself as its only an advisory but was wondering if anyone had had these replaced at all and if so how much did it set you back??

Regards

Neil

Hi Neil,
         Just noticed your thread. MOT testers are noting advisories on anything .
I have been advised on all different vehicles by different testers.
rust on exhaust.
tyres wearing.
noisy
slight play in wheel bearings.
etc
It will be difficult soon to get a pass without an advisory!!
Your springs start rusting soon after you use the vehicle,
I expect you have rust on your rear springs,i have.  

 Ride on
Mike

That's right Frank, and what a pig of a job this can be, as I know from my Boxer Petrol Mk1 - Diesel Mk2 conversion. To gain access to the tops of the struts to release them from the vehicle body it requires removal of the majority of the dashboard and probably the steering column. I may be faced with this again as one of my shocks is leaking slightly.

This is a job you want to do once and never again, so if forced to replace front coil springs, which I doubt is necessary if subject to just surface corrosion, I would replace the spring, shock absorber/strut and the top bearing at the same time. The latter was a weak point on mk1 Boxer - mine started knocking post Iceland trip - but this must be worth exchanging whatever the year.

Bottom line for me though: chuck some paint, oil or grease on the corroded spring and wait to see what happens.

Incidentally, regaring the prevalence of spring problems, in recent conversation with an MOT tester he advised me that, on average, he sees one broken road spring per day. In our fleet of two 2001 Citroen Xsaras, at some stage all four of the original road springs broke, the replacement of which was a lousy job I got used to.

Bartfarst

Bartfarst wrote:That's right Frank, and what a pig of a job this can be, as I know from my Boxer Petrol Mk1 - Diesel Mk2 conversion. To gain access to the tops of the struts to release them from the vehicle body it requires removal of the majority of the dashboard and probably the steering column. I may be faced with this again as one of my shocks is leaking slightly.
Bartfarst

I had to replace a top bearing on mine a while ago, fortunately it was on the passenger side so not too bad to access the top bolts.
Still a pig of a job to do though! Never fully trust those coil spring compressors either.

Frank

...and I suspect your regular car spring compressors are just not 'man' enough to do the job either. They are worrying things and take no prisoners if they let go.

Bartfarst

boxerman wrote:

Bartfarst wrote:That's right Frank, and what a pig of a job this can be, as I know from my Boxer Petrol Mk1 - Diesel Mk2 conversion. To gain access to the tops of the struts to release them from the vehicle body it requires removal of the majority of the dashboard and probably the steering column. I may be faced with this again as one of my shocks is leaking slightly.
Bartfarst

I had to replace a top bearing on mine a while ago, fortunately it was on the passenger side so not too bad to access the top bolts.
Still a pig of a job to do though! Never fully trust those coil spring compressors either.

Frank

Frank,

I'm pretty sure my ride quality has deteriorated of late and, no doubt, the leaking of one shock is contributing to this. So I have to grasp the nettle pretty soon. Did you manage to compress the front springs with a regular spring compressor? I'm fearing that, in addition to the forces, the diameter of the spring material may be too large to engage with the 'hooks' on the compressor. Any thoughts please?

Bartfarst

First off to clear myself of any blame, I am not advising anyone to do it my way. Just telling you how I did mine [successfully].

I do have some heavy duty compressors but they tend to slip. What I used were three 1" wide ratchet straps placed equidistantly around the springs circumference and the webbing looped over as many coils as possible. Don't use hooks, the webbing grips on the spring better.

Ratchet them down as equally as possible a bit at a time so that the spring compresses 'straight' down.

EDIT: Do I need to say, don't compress them any more than you need to.

BE CAREFUL!

HTH
Frank

Warnings fully acknowledged Frank: if next time I log on I have a hole in my forehead then that's my fault!

Thanks for the advice - it may be a few weeks before I attempt it.

Whilst in conversation about springs, have you any experience on uprating the rear leafs? I already have air springs - much previous discussion I have seen too - but am still curious as to whether uprated rear springs bring any benefit over and above/in addition to air springs? I know it should be just the case that through increasing the air pressure I should be able to get any performance I like, within reason, but nevertheless I thought I'd ask the question.

Currently we just seem to crash and bash into any irregularity of the road, and I'm finding it increasingly wearing on long runs on less major roads. Last year I hired a Mercedes panel van - OK so it was twenty years newer design - but it seemed untroubled by bumps, albeit I mostly used it lightly loaded. Ideally I want the same performance for the heavily loaded Harmony.

My first plan is to fit the rear springs from my mk2 244 Ducato donor van, these having 100kg greater capacity than the existing springs (2700kg vs 2800kg) but I wonder whether to fit springs from a 3200kg van.

Any thoughts appreciated!

Stuart (Bartfarst)

Hi Stuart, 'fraid I don't have any experience with uprated springs, except that I fitted air assistance many moons ago [my van is already on the 320 chassis BTW].
What pressure do you run your air spings at? I usually have mine around 35psi.

Frank

Frank, I run mine at around 15 - 20 psi, above which I've always considered the ride to be too hard. Uprated springs might do the same of course!

Fitted air springs in 1998/9 I think, mainly to correct the inherent tail-low attitude as delivered. It's certainly helped the handling. Perhaps I'll try them again at increased pressures before doing any major changes.

Fitted new rear shocks too, but only to the Ducato 244 spec, not campervan or uprated spec (covered in another posting somewhere I think).

Bartfarst

Bartfarst wrote:Frank, I run mine at around 15 - 20 psi, above which I've always considered the ride to be too hard. Uprated springs might do the same of course!

Fitted air springs in 1998/9 I think, mainly to correct the inherent tail-low attitude as delivered. It's certainly helped the handling. Perhaps I'll try them again at increased pressures before doing any major changes.

I think the Harmony is lighter than the Symphony so shouldn't need as much pressure?

Fitted new rear shocks too, but only to the Ducato 244 spec, not campervan or uprated spec (covered in another posting somewhere I think).

Bartfarst

Funnily enough, I re-fitted the originals last year. I'd been advised by my MOT bloke that the shrouds were rotting away 'round the back' which wasn't a fail or anything but it was exposing the damper rods to grit & salt. I bought and fitted some aftermarket ones but they only lasted about three years before the back end was feeling 'bouncy'. As I hadn't thrown the old ones away [I'm a terrible hoarder] I repaired the shrouds with fibreglass and re-fitted them. Ride back to normal
It goes to show that original parts, although expensive, do last a lot longer than some aftermarket parts. The originals are now 21 years old - although they had a 3 year rest. The aftermarket ones were past their best after 3 years.

Frank

Frank

Our '96 Symphony had heavy duty springs fitted to the back when we purchased it (fitted a few years ago) It sits nice and level and the back doesn't seem too bouncy (although I have new shocks to fit when time allows as the ones on there are a bit crusty). Not too much roll around corners and handles well for its weight.

I'm not sure air assists would make much difference (though I've thought about it) and I've wondered if it's worthwhile or if I'd even notice the difference I guess the opposite to you Bartfast!

I've only ever driven mine so have no idea if the suspension is good or bad for a Symphony but I have noticed a marked difference in the ride with new tyres (for the better).