Changing from Camping Gaz to Calor? -

I am a (nearly) newbie. I have a Trooper and we have just got back from our first trip, which was great.
The van came with 2 Camping Gaz cylinders (previous owners went abroad a lot). I gather that Calor is a lot cheaper, but need some advice about what I need to change over. Do I need a different regulator? Can/should I use one of those change-over valves to have both on tap? Does the Calor need a spanner to fit, rather than just screwing on?  Will 1 Calor + 1 Camping fit in the locker?
Is there some problem buying an empty Calor cylinder on ebay to exchange? - something about not having a refill agreement?
Any advice gratefully received - thanks!

Calor is indeed cheaper. But it's only available in UK. The better gas is propane (because it will work when the temperature is freezing - butane won't). Calor does a lightweight propane cyliner (which has a guage showing - approximately - the contents). You have to buy the initial cylinder; thereafter for refills you just pay for the gas. Go to a Calor dealer to see if the cylinder will fit in a Trooper. In the Clubman I can just fit 2 of them in the gas locker - though for overseas I take 1 Calor light (usually more than enough) but also one camping gas which can be exchanged abroad - though Gaz is butane. In winter overseas, I take the 2 Calors.  Butane, and Calor cylinders, need a different regulator. It's red. Sold by Calor etc. Needs a spanner [I seem to recall that it's reverse thread: to screw on to the cylinder it's anticlockwise!  Certainly that's the case with the large 47Kg cylinders, and I think - but am not certain - that the small Calor Light cylinders may be the same. Easy to check!]

That's a starting answer! Experts will be along shortly, I'm sure.

Cymro

Cymro has covered most of it already.

You will need a new requlator if the current one screws onto the top of the Gaz cylinder, as the Calor butane ones are a different layout and different (indeed reverse) thread.

It should be simple enough to swap to a calor regulator, and they aren't hugely expensive.

I have an interest to declare: I have swapped the other way, primarily because I wanted the smallest/lightest cylinder I could get, so I changed mine to a Camping Gaz 904 plus a 901 (which is really tiny).

Hence I have a freshly refilled 4.5 Kg Calor butane cylinder for sale. Happy to provide detailed measurements of it if you want to see if it (and another) will fit in the Trooper's locker.

Cymro is right that if you want to go away in winter, it may be better to go for propane. However, this tends to be less of an issue in a van like yours (and mine) as the cylinder tends to be in a locker which is entirely within the van - so as long as you keep the inside of the van reasonably warm it is unlikely to "freeze".

If you're interested, let me know and I'll send you more location details via Private Message.

G'day, if your Trooper has a similar layout to my Trident it has room for 1 Camping Gaz 907 and 1 Calor 3.9kg. They use different regulators and yes the Calor requires a spanner. I use a short length of hose on the regulators and a quick release 8mm hose connector which connects to the hose going into the fixed pipework. I found the quick release connectors on E-bay from a firm called Gas Equipment Direct who also sell hose and regulators etc. The only problem with buying cylinders on E-bay is that it's usually collect in person, once you have a cylinder you just go to a dealer, hand them your empty and your money and they'll give you a full one. The agreement form you get when initially purchasing a cylinder i.e. without an empty one to exchange, allows you to recoup part of the cost if you eventually return the empty unwanted cylinder to Calor rather than selling or passing it on to someone else. Hope that all makes sense ,
Colin
P.S. there wasn't any replies to your post when I started typing this so apologies for any duplication's,
Cheers, Colin

Otto wrote:The only problem with buying cylinders on E-bay is that it's usually collect in person

Just to add to that. The reason for this is that there are very few carriers that will allow full or part-full cylinders in their shipments, so it's only possible to get empty cylinders shipped.

Thanks, Guys. 
The quick-release hose connector sounds like a good idea, Otto. 
Mojo, I'd seen your thread about a Calor for sale, but was concerned about the agreement thing. Now I understand that, I may be interested in your spare. Would it come with a regulator? How much did you want for it?

Hi Rubarb,
  On my high horse again (Refilllable cylinders,) One other possbility is an alugas refillable cylinder. I believe that the standard 6kg calor will not fit, ( to high) however, the alugas cylinder is lower, but fatter, the measurments being 300mm dia x405 high. This compares with 250 dia x500 high for the calor. Have you got room to accommodate this diameter cylinder? Autogas that you fill withnit from garages the supply LPG, sometimes known as GPL on the continent is about half the price of calor and it will pay for itself quite quickly if you use reasonable amounts of gas. For more details Google 6kg Alugas cylinders. I would like to know for myself wether aon of these will fit into * Inappropriate Word * smalller gas lockers.

   Brian

I tour a fair bit in Poland and last year decide to invest in a couple of bottles of Polish gas and a regulator. 

The reason is simple......price! 

A refill costs me around 25zl (about a fiver) for a bottle which is only slightly less than the Calor and also makes their prices a total rip off.

murph wrote:... will pay for itself quite quickly if you use reasonable amounts of gas. 

 Won't be using a lot as we are only planning short trips and we are likely to be fair-weather campers.

Hello again, I use the Calor 3.9kg + Campingaz 907 combination because it fits well in the locker (this arrangement is in the T4 Trident handbook), and it means I don't run out of gas because I often use the 'fridge on gas. But originally like you doing short fair weather trips, I used just a Calor 3.9 and always took a small single burner Camping gaz stove just in case the Calor ran out at tea time ! We still take the portable stove 'cause on nights like this it's nice to cook a simple meal and brew-up out side of the van,
Cheers again, Colin

Bulletguy wrote:
A refill costs me around 25zl (about a fiver) for a bottle which is only slightly less than the Calor and also makes their prices a total rip off.

Agreed, but then you should compare UK Camping Gaz prices with those in Poland if you want to see a ~real~ ripoff - it's now around twice the price of Calor - perhaps eight times the Polish price?

Rhubarb - you have a PM.

-mojo- wrote:

Bulletguy wrote:
A refill costs me around 25zl (about a fiver) for a bottle which is only slightly less than the Calor and also makes their prices a total rip off.

Agreed, but then you should compare UK Camping Gaz prices with those in Poland if you want to see a ~real~ ripoff - it's now around twice the price of Calor - perhaps eight times the Polish price?

True and a very good reason to stop buying Camping Gaz. As long as folk keep buying it, manufacturers will carry on inflating their prices. That's how it is in UK. 

Interestingly in Poland there isn't even any 'competitors' and bottles can be bought in a variety of sizes too. Price appears to be pretty much the same wherever you buy and are easily obtainable at most Petrol Stations. The ones I have, three will fit very neatly into the Duetto locker and more than enough for my touring.

Bulletguy wrote:True and a very good reason to stop buying Camping Gaz. As long as folk keep buying it, manufacturers will carry on inflating their prices.

I understand your point, but for me the ability to use two thirds of my gas locker for something else (hookup cables, water filling gear, etc) meant that cylinder size was the dominant factor, and a 904 with a 901 as a backup takes up less space than any other combination, by a long way. Plus the 901 also serves as the supply for a gas mantle lamp when I'm off hookup.

Other than cost, the main downside (which I had not realised until I started looking at campsite shops) is that the CG 904 is a fairly rare cylinder, and the 901 is exceedingly hard to find, which, although I won't need refills very often, may be a bit of a pain in future...

On my last van with gas heating, price was important and I used Calor, but with diesel heating on the current van it is very much less so. I reckon I will need a refill of the 904 once every four years at most!

But you're right that, for any "normal" user, Camping Gaz is probably the worst choice as the primary source of gas.

murph wrote:Hi Rubarb,
  On my high horse again (Refilllable cylinders,) One other possbility is an alugas refillable cylinder. I believe that the standard 6kg calor will not fit, ( to high) however, the alugas cylinder is lower, but fatter, the measurments being 300mm dia x405 high. This compares with 250 dia x500 high for the calor. Have you got room to accommodate this diameter cylinder? Autogas that you fill withnit from garages the supply LPG, sometimes known as GPL on the continent is about half the price of calor and it will pay for itself quite quickly if you use reasonable amounts of gas. For more details Google 6kg Alugas cylinders. I would like to know for myself wether aon of these will fit into * Inappropriate Word * smalller gas lockers.

   Brian

TOTALLY OFF SUBJECT!!

MY GOODNESS HOW WE HAVE MISSED YOU!! (Especially on this subject!!)  

WELCOME BACK BRIAN!!  

BEST REGARDS,
    
IAN

Cymro (post 12th July) mentioned that the regulators on Calor cylinders were reverse thread. Is that the case with Camping Gas regulators also?

petern

No, Petern. Camping gas adapters usually screw down on to the cylinder with normal clockwise thread. Because the regulator has the tubing attached, it's easier to lift the cylinder to the thread of the regulator and spin the cylinder to tighten.

Thank you for the info. I will start spinning!

Peter

I was advised by my Hab Check guy to pull the hose off, spin the regulator onto the Gaz cylinder, then push the pipe back on afterwards to avoid twisting the tube or spinning the cylinder.

I've noticed they seem to recommend using a jubilee clip on the hose for Calor. Anyone know why for Calor and not Gaz? Is the clip really needed?

And is the outlet pipe on Calor bigger than Gaz, ie would it stretch on the Calor and become too loose for the Gaz? They talk about needing to warm the tube to get it onto the Calor where at the moment I just push it onto the Gaz.

I don't think you need to be too concerned. I've been swapping between Calor [Propane] and Gamping Gaz [Butane] for years and it's no problem.

The flexible hose tube (which is usually changed every other year as part of the habitation service) can be attached to the ribbed rigid outlets of both the Calor propane regulator and the CGaz butane regulator without problem. I haven't checked the external diameter of the 2 ribbed outlet pipes, but they're as near enough in size as to make no difference. I always use a jubilee clip on the hose tube to ensure a gas-tight fit to the regulators.

Turning to your specific point, yes it's much easier to spin the CGaz cylinder to its regulator outside the locker before the hose is attached - provided, of course, the tap on the regulator is firmly shut! Then you can lift the cylinder into the locker and connect up the hose with the jubilee clip. 

I have always found that by far the hardest part of the operation of switching cylinder + regulator types is tugging the hose off the regulator which is currently in use. So there's really no danger of a secured hose detaching inadvertently. Indeed, it's such a struggle that, when I need to change cylinders and after shutting the cylinder in use, I usually cut off the hose as close as possible to the end of the regulator's ribbed pipe (needs a fine hacksaw); fit on the other regulator and jubilee clip and cylinder; and at leisure cut off the inch or so of pipe which is left on the discarded regulator so that the regulator is ready for next time. Assuming that you change the hose every other year, and that you don't change too frequently, there's always enough spare hose to allow this.

It's surprising how long a Calor Lite propane cylinder will last. Obviously much longer if you supplement with mains electricity for heating / kettle in winter. In the UK - and if only going overseas for a short time (e.g. up a 3 weeks in winter) we find there's no need to resort to the spare Gamping Gaz. And the one time we did, it was so cold that the CGaz butane wouldn't work! Should have just taken 2 Calor Propane!

I wonder why Campinggaz use Butane in their refillable bottles but a butane/propane mix in their disposable cannisters. Anyone know why?
Obviously the refillables would be more suitable for cold weather if they were a mix.

My experiences may be of interest.

Gaz 901 is a horrendously expensive way of buying gas, but when going abroad I always take one as a reserve which fits nicely between the rear of my two 4.2kg butane cyclinders in the gas cupboard of my Harmony. If going on a longer trip I also secrete a Gaz 904 away in what we call out "boot cupboard" i.e. the next one forward. That said I think only once did we have to revert to using Gaz. I seem to recall that all three sizes are relatively common in France and also in Germany. I think the big supermarkets such as Auchan and Carrefour generally carry them.

I understand that Propane (red) has a higher calorific value per unit mass than Butane (blue). However this is offset by the reduced density of propane meaning that the amount of heat in each bottle is about the same or perhaps slightly less for propane. I did once try a one month summer holiday in Europe with 2x 3.9kg propane, and they were just as depleted as 2x 4.2kg butane by the time we arrived home. Accordingly, the only reason for trying propane in my book is for winter use which we never have the chance to do.

I wouldn't even think of buying gas bottle on eBay unless you can collect: postage is going to make a big dent in the deal. Instead, I've bought loads of bottles over the years from Car Boot Sales for use myself, or to sell on. Often you get a useful amount of gas still included and perhaps a small stove or other attachment. I recall paying little more than £5 for most. Keep your eyes open too: I've found 2x Gaz 907s in hedge bottoms over the years. You have to resist the urge to smile when exchanging a completely rusted cylinder for a pristine newly-painted new one, but I've never been refused!

Bartfarst

Thanks, Bartfarst.  I've got a bid on a local one on Ebay. 
I too discounted propane as I am never going to be using the van when it is that cold!