T4 Trident - Very Bad Rust around Windscreen

Hi, and hello from a new member seeking some advice,

I have a 1996 VW T4 Trident which is suffering from very bad rust attack at the top of the windscreen pillars, where the pillars connect with the roof panel.

The problem first appeared three years ago. Back then I took my camper to what was at the time a very highly recommended local body shop, where they removed the windscreen, resprayed the affected area and refitted the windscreen. It was a very expensive job but looked perfect after the repair !

Here I am three years later - and the problem has re-appeared - and if anything looks to be even more agressive than last time. It’s affecting both pillars ie both sides of the vehicle equally badly and I can see I'm going to have to urgently get something done again ?

I realise I am going to have to go to a bodywork repairer again and go through the whole process. But I am wondering whether there are higher performance paint systems or primers or any other "extras" I could specify to try and get a higher quality and better more long lasting repair than was achieved last time I had it re-finished ?

The below picture shows the problem . . the other side is exactly the same . . . . . any advice would be very much appreciated.

From appearances, the short answer is I'm afraid "No", in terms of primers and other rust-treating products. It looks to me as though the metal has pinholed and the rust is spreading from inside the pillar as well as the outside. It's a sad fact (which many classic car owners discover the hard way) that once this starts the only way to stop it is to cut out the affected section and replace with solid metal, then get a good surface treatment on both inside and out to stop it happening again. On windscreen pilars this is hard to do, and particularly so in that position, because when welded there is very limited access to the inside.

It's a bit puzzling though - AFAIK T4's aren't particularly prone to rust on the screen pillars, so I wonder if it was perhaps a careless windscreen replacement at some time in the past.

Thanks for your reply.

I've had the camper since new and there was a windcreeen replacement when it was about three years old, so maybe you are right and that could have something to do with it ?

Does anyone have any recommendations on a good bodyshop in the west country that would do a good long term job of the required repairs ? . . I'm located approx 15 miles south of Briistol.

Thanks,

javascript:emoticonp(':scratch%20head:')

Nostromo,

Please take a minute to introduce yourself here...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

you'll find you get more response from members when you've said hello

Hi Paul,

Good to meet you . . . yep . . . . I've visited the introductions section and posted a hello as you recommended.

So far as this post about my rust is concerned, I'm also pretty concerned about the proximity of the rust to the connection of the hi-top . . . and very worried as to whether the potential need for welding is going to cause a heat/damage issue to the connection of the plastic hi-top to the steel roof structure. I guess the rust is less than 4" away from, and immediatly below, the join of the plastic hitop to the steel !!!!

Cheers,

That looks quite nasty and I think the only way is to pop the screen out and as mojo said cut out any rust and weld in new metal... Usually the T4's go in the passenger side bottom corner of the screen, think where yours has gone is probably the seam join on the pillar and its been neglected instead of being nipped in the bud early... You could grind it out and use a metal filler instead of plastic body filler, but my guess is when you start ripping into in to it you'll just end up with a big hole.

Hi, and thanks for your reply.

You are quite right to suggest the rust started in the seams. I've had this camper from new and noticed when it was about 8 or 9 years old (ie 7 or 8 years ago) that cracks were starting to appear in the paintwork exactly over the welded seams where the top of the pillars are welded to the roof panel. I sort of suspected/assumed they were stress induced due the weight and loading of the hi-top all carried by the relatively slender pillars, that was just my guess as to the cause, but as mojo pointed out it could have started due to the windscreen being replaced when the camper was about 3 years old ? . . For many years I tried my best to touch up the tiny hairline cracks with genuine VW touch up paint stick, I did it religiously every couple of months or so, until in fact it began to look unsightly, but, whatever I tried, it always cracked again after a short while so there must have been some stress or movement at play ?

About 3 years ago I got very worried about it and so, on the recommendation of a friend in the bodywork trade, took the camper to a highly recommended bodywork specialist in Bath, where they removed the windscreen and repaired the damage - I didn’t see the work being done so I don’t know what they did - I took it in looking cracked and bodged and picked it up a week later looking fantastic with an excellent looking localized respray of the pillars and surrounding bodywork. I won’t tell you size of the bill for this work but it was very very expensive. That was 3 years ago I think.

Just a few weeks ago now the rust you can see in the picture reappeared . . . . the paintwork bubbled up over a couple of months at the beginning of this year and just a couple of weeks ago the paint detached completely. Anyway . . just to say it hasn't been neglected and was, as far as I was concerned nipped in the bud early . . . but obviously not done well enough either by me or the repairer I've described.

So, that explains my concern about getting the right person to do the repairs this next time . . . I'm certainly not taking it back to the bodyshop that repaired it last time . . . I guess I'd hoped the repair would last a lot longer than it has ?. . . but that said the cracks did come back very quickly . . again leading me to assume there was a stress/loading/movement issue going on ?

So I guess the question remains . . . can anybody offer any advice on where in the south west of the UK I should take my camper to get this sorted out for once and for all - and what paint materials should be used to control the cracking ? ?

javascript:emoticonp('')

Hi

I had a 1994 Trident and it had the usual T4 rust round the windscreen area and it was constant battle to try and keep it under control. I know you won't like me saying this but I think you would be throwing good money after bad. I would bite the bullet and put it on Ebay

If it is any consolation Transits are even worse.



Andy

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your honest reply . . . all advice however unpalatable is very much appreciated.

And . . . . I might be tempted to take your advice if there was any chance I could afford to replace the one I’ve got with a newer model ? . . but sadly that’s not the case and this is the only camper I’m going to be able to afford in the foreseeable future, and, if I can’t afford to get it fixed . . then that’s the end of the line for camper ownership for me ! . . .

Though 17 years old, she got less than 40K on the clock, mechanically she’s perfect and internally she’s immaculate . . as good as new . . . virtually zero wear and tear and you’d be hard pressed to tell she hadn’t just come out of the factory . . except for the windscreen rust !!!!

Really frustrating ! . . .

Cheers and happy camping

javascript:emoticonp('')

Firstly there's no need to get rid of it as It's fixable, as long as you are prepared to put the money into it, these kind of jobs don't come cheap.

Secondly In my opinion you would be better off seeking out a company that restores the old VW split screen and bay camper vans as they have lots of knowledge in cutting out rust, re-fabricating metal sections, and making them look good, they will also do a better job than most body shops as they have an interest in what they do, where most body shops want them in and out with a quick turn around especially on older vehicles.

Get some waxoyl pumped into those sections even if you have to buy a kit and do it yourself, it will at least prevent things getting much worse.

These companies are specialists in this field, the downside is they are busy and not cheap but you'll get a much better job done.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The fact is that if you Ebay it, the only buyers you are likely to get will be dealers, who will then pay minimum money to a back street body shop to bodge it over, and will then put it back on Ebay at double the price.

I don't think being welded 4 inches from the roof should be a major issue. I'd guess they would MIG weld and, if done in short bursts that should not generate massive amounts of heat.

As I think you suspect, it will be hugely expensive to do properly, but I don't see any other option. Unfortunately I don't think any of the after-market panel suppliers do windscreen pillar sections for the T4, so it would probably either have to be genuine VW parts (which I doubt will be anything other than horrendously costly) or fabricated from scratch. It would also mean screen out again of course, though that would be an opportunity to find and kill off any other hidden rust in the area.

I would also recommend taking it to several bodyshops for quotes. From my own recent experience the price will vary greatly depending on whether they want the work or not. I would also choose somewhere that will show you the completed work "in metal" before spraying starts so you can see that it's not just another "bang it in with a hammer and spread body filler over the top" job!

If you can't get new panels maybe find a shell in a breakers and have them cut both pillars out and take them to a good vw body shop who can unpick the spot welds on the used parts and weld them in. I would not waxoyl just yet as it will make it harder to repair as the oil could ignite in the pillar. But once done give it plenty of waxoyl inside the cavity.

Hi there
Only just seen your post as I have been away.
I've had a number of T4s based A/S and others and never seen rust as bad as this even in the some of the first produced models. You must feel really frustrated especially being the original owner and having paid for the job to be sorted only 3 years ago.
I can't offer much more advice than that already given, but cutting out the rust is the only option and replacing with new / good metal.

I think I would be very tempted to go back to the original repairer and have a word, to show them what has happened, especially if you have parted with a lot of hard earned £s. You never know.

I agree that even in this condition, there is really no need to take drastic action and sell the van. Everything is fixable, but everything has it's price. The links provided by Admin are very well worth pursuing and may lead you to a T4 specialist who can sort you out. Good luck and let us know how you get on
Regards
John

Hi everyone who has contributed to my post here.

Thanks for all the advice and I'll now investigate the way ahead with some of the leads that have been offered.

Will keep you informed of progress and take a few pictures of the process, which I'll post later on if there's a happy ending ! !

Thanks again.

Also it may be worth checking that the the seals on any roof vents are good ?
The seal between the hightop and the roof vent I mean.
If the seals have perished water can run along the inside of the roof to the lowest point of the van.
Possiblity it could be running into the windscreen pillars somehow and causing this rust ?

There is much wisdom in the old adage," better the devil you know". If you can get it fixed, at least you know where the gremlins are, where as if you sell and buy another, you are always buying an unknown potential nightmare. Having been where you are so many times in the past, I feel tempted to look at a horse and cart.

This can be resolved:

pop out windscreen, cut out effected areas, replace with fabricated or from donor and weld, treat and respray, waxoyl cavities which is a must and check seals around high top to check they have not perished, may cost a bit to get done, buy if you enjoy and want to keep the camper, worth ever penny, just need to find someone who will do the work, good luck.

Hi
We have just had the rust round the windscreen repaired on our Executive by Simon at
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Not that near you I know but they have a good reputation. Simon does not hurry things and likes your van for at least two weeks. They will run you to and from Crewe Station.

Louise