Winter charging

Hello, I haven’t been on the forum for a while so I'd like to take this opportunity to wish everyone reading this a 'Happy New Year'.
Can anyone please confirm the following: if I connect my Symbol ES to the mains with the 12v control panel switched off will the inbuilt battery charger also charge the vehicle battery?

Presumably you will have a 'charger' switch that needs to be 'on'

PB

Our Cotswold has a sargent unit for the electrics, the control panel does not have to be powered up. There however is a red rocker switch on the main sargent unit which can be toggled to either charge or not chrage the batteries.

Wozzon wrote:Hello, I haven’t been on the forum for a while so I'd like to take this opportunity to wish everyone reading this a 'Happy New Year'.
Can anyone please confirm the following: if I connect my Symbol ES to the mains with the 12v control panel switched off will the inbuilt battery charger also charge the vehicle battery?

And a Happy New Year to you too, Wozzon

Not sure about your Symbol ES, but our '97 Clubman's fitted Charger only does the Leisure Battery.

Regards,

Brian

On our 1996 Duetto you have to flick a switch in the cupboard under the cooker to switch the charger on

I've had a look at the charger unit in my van, it’s placed under the floor of the van inside a cupboard which is part of the cooker. The charger has a red LED toggle switch, which is usually continually left on. The reason for thinking that it charges leisure and vehicle battery is that the 12v control panel will show condition of leisure and vehicle battery. However, I don’t know how I can be sure.

Wozzon,
Our Symbol ES only charges the leisure battery on EHU. I've played with the buttons on the control panel, but still no joy for the vehicle battery. The easy way to test is to put a voltmeter on the battery then switch on the hook up and see if the voltage rises. No such luck on mine. I've just invested in a 'battery to battery' charger so that the leaisure battery will keep the vehicle battery topped up. The leisure battery will be topped up by the hook up, or when parked on the drive a small solar panel.

Being new to this lark I have a small charger with a 13 amp plug one end which I plug in by the bed and a cigar socket male in the cigar lighter socket of the dash which keeps the van battery charged.

Flying High wrote:Being new to this lark I have a small charger with a 13 amp plug one end which I plug in by the bed and a cigar socket male in the cigar lighter socket of the dash which keeps the van battery charged.

Now that's a good idea!



PB

Flying High wrote:Being new to this lark I have a small charger with a 13 amp plug one end which I plug in by the bed and a cigar socket male in the cigar lighter socket of the dash which keeps the van battery charged.

Is your cig-lighter socket 'live' all the time? Mine is only 'on' with the ign on, so the fag-lighter is dead with ign off.

Most vehicles are like this nowadays.

modelman wrote:

Flying High wrote:Being new to this lark I have a small charger with a 13 amp plug one end which I plug in by the bed and a cigar socket male in the cigar lighter socket of the dash which keeps the van battery charged.

Is your cig-lighter socket 'live' all the time? Mine is only 'on' with the ign on, so the fag-lighter is dead with ign off.

Most vehicles are like this nowadays.

Obviously his is, as is mine.

PB

Hi there,

My 1998 Ford Transit based Duetto is fitted with a 100% "live" cigar lighter socket. I presume similar aged vans will be the same.

Best regards,

Fair-enoughski

Its quite handy to retro fit another accessory socket and wire it direct to the battery via a 5a fuse, comes in handy as a supply that,s always live and also as a charging socket.

Robbie wrote:Its quite handy to retro fit another accessory socket and wire it direct to the battery via a 5a fuse, comes in handy as a supply that,s always live and also as a charging socket.

Hi that's the best way to go, Winnie is live all the time , shame her radio disc player isn't, another job when it warms up a bit. Fancy fitting a unit that has to have the ignition on whilst camped. Must fit those reversing sensors and sort out the reversing lights. I bet the plug is off the gearbox after her newly installed clutch.
I thought it was easy owning a mobile home.

Best regards Mike

Robbie wrote:Our Cotswold has a sargent unit for the electrics, the control panel does not have to be powered up. There however is a red rocker switch on the main sargent unit which can be toggled to either charge or not chrage the batteries.

My Lancashire also has the Sargent charger and control panel. I agree with the above as far as it goes BUT- within the control panel you can choose which battery to use/charge, leisure or vehicle. You cannot charge both. I run a month or two with the red switch off (no charge) and then check the battery voltages followed by a couple of days of charging whichever battery needs it, if any.

inspiredron wrote:
My Lancashire also has the Sargent charger and control panel. I agree with the above as far as it goes BUT- within the control panel you can choose which battery to use/charge, leisure or vehicle. You cannot charge both. I run a month or two with the red switch off (no charge) and then check the battery voltages followed by a couple of days of charging whichever battery needs it, if any.

Nicely explained :)

inspiredron wrote:

Robbie wrote:Our Cotswold has a sargent unit for the electrics, the control panel does not have to be powered up. There however is a red rocker switch on the main sargent unit which can be toggled to either charge or not chrage the batteries.

My Lancashire also has the Sargent charger and control panel. I agree with the above as far as it goes BUT- within the control panel you can choose which battery to use/charge, leisure or vehicle. You cannot charge both. I run a month or two with the red switch off (no charge) and then check the battery voltages followed by a couple of days of charging whichever battery needs it, if any.

I have 80w panels on the roof, & I fitted a Morningstar duo controller, this allows me to charge BOTH (3 actually) truck & leisure batteries, not only
that, but I can easily adjust the split-ratio, 10% to one & 90% to the other, or any combination, such as 50-50 etc.
Its also self monitoring, so if one drops, it automaticaly 'ups the anti' towards that one & reduces the others, cannot overcharge so all in all,
quite a good system & everything is ALWAYS fully topped up

inspiredron wrote:

Robbie wrote:Our Cotswold has a sargent unit for the electrics, the control panel does not have to be powered up. There however is a red rocker switch on the main sargent unit which can be toggled to either charge or not chrage the batteries.

My Lancashire also has the Sargent charger and control panel. I agree with the above as far as it goes BUT- within the control panel you can choose which battery to use/charge, leisure or vehicle. You cannot charge both.

I'm led to believe that while this is true of the mains charger on the current Sargent (type 328) controller, the built-in solar controller distributes solar charging across both batteries automatically, though it is not as sophisticated as Modelman's dedicated solar controller, in that it is demand-based so you cannot choose a split ratio that it must use.

-mojo- wrote:

inspiredron wrote:

Robbie wrote:Our Cotswold has a sargent unit for the electrics, the control panel does not have to be powered up. There however is a red rocker switch on the main sargent unit which can be toggled to either charge or not chrage the batteries.

My Lancashire also has the Sargent charger and control panel. I agree with the above as far as it goes BUT- within the control panel you can choose which battery to use/charge, leisure or vehicle. You cannot charge both.

I'm led to believe that while this is true of the mains charger on the current Sargent (type 328) controller, the built-in solar controller distributes solar charging across both batteries automatically, though it is not as sophisticated as Modelman's dedicated solar controller, in that it is demand-based so you cannot choose a split ratio that it must use.

Interesting this as you learn something new every day thanks guys I had previously though that the control box charged the leisure batteries and then the main battery if it needed some. I see this is not the case and that you have to select the vehicle battery on the control panel to get the relay in the unit to kick over onto the other battery and hence charge it.
I could be wrong here but if the relay basically the last component before the output to the batteries the solar panel will also only charge which ever battery the relay is selected to. That probably an AS or Sargent question.
We normally have our LCD control panel powered of when not in the van but this needs to be kept powered up if wanting to charge the vehicle battery, once its powered off the relay latches back to select the leisure batteries. lol noticed that when i went out to check the operation of ours this morning and turned it off

Wozzon wrote:Hello, I haven’t been on the forum for a while so I'd like to take this opportunity to wish everyone reading this a 'Happy New Year'.
Can anyone please confirm the following: if I connect my Symbol ES to the mains with the 12v control panel switched off will the inbuilt battery charger also charge the vehicle battery?

Hi, Having recently come out to a flat starter battery on my 2011 dorset I did some circuit testing.
on mains hookup, switch on 12V and select leisure, this charges leisure battery.
select vehicle and this charges starter battery, the 12V circuit must be left on.
It has taken me 18 months to realise this but I now have 2 fully charged batteries.
Good luck and a happy new year.

Robbie wrote:

-mojo- wrote:

inspiredron wrote:

Robbie wrote:Our Cotswold has a sargent unit for the electrics, the control panel does not have to be powered up. There however is a red rocker switch on the main sargent unit which can be toggled to either charge or not chrage the batteries.

My Lancashire also has the Sargent charger and control panel. I agree with the above as far as it goes BUT- within the control panel you can choose which battery to use/charge, leisure or vehicle. You cannot charge both.

I'm led to believe that while this is true of the mains charger on the current Sargent (type 328) controller, the built-in solar controller distributes solar charging across both batteries automatically, though it is not as sophisticated as Modelman's dedicated solar controller, in that it is demand-based so you cannot choose a split ratio that it must use.

Interesting this as you learn something new every day thanks guys I had previously though that the control box charged the leisure batteries and then the main battery if it needed some. I see this is not the case and that you have to select the vehicle battery on the control panel to get the relay in the unit to kick over onto the other battery and hence charge it.
I could be wrong here but if the relay basically the last component before the output to the batteries the solar panel will also only charge which ever battery the relay is selected to. That probably an AS or Sargent question.
We normally have our LCD control panel powered of when not in the van but this needs to be kept powered up if wanting to charge the vehicle battery, once its powered off the relay latches back to select the leisure batteries. lol noticed that when i went out to check the operation of ours this morning and turned it off

AH! I was not sure about that. I had played with the Sargent a few weeks ago but did not twig that it had to be left on to charge the vehicle battery. I will look and if necessary contact Sargent - they are quite helpful - or were when I asked about the jumpers in the box behind the driver's seat that control the outside light and the step operation when the van is locked and unlocked.

Had another look at the charging system on my Symbol today, started with the instruction manual (always a good place to start, not that I always do)! Anyway, in the manual it stated that the charger will charge the vehicle battery as well as the habitation battery. The way to do this according to the operating instructions for the MES control unit is, when the control panel has been put into charge habitation mode, press the center button on the control panel. The back light will change from green to red and charge vehicle will come up on screen. When I did this the battery charger makes some noises and then I guess the vehicle battery is being charged. I started the vehicle today after charging vehicle battery from on board charger and after five weeks of standing idle there was no hesitation in battery power whatsoever. In the past when I have started after five weeks the battery has sounded slightly laboured, although the engine starts fairly quickly.

Just seen Grumpys post after writing the above. Its taken me 14 months to learn this, but never mind we both know now!

Robbie wrote:

-mojo- wrote:

inspiredron wrote:

Robbie wrote:Our Cotswold has a sargent unit for the electrics, the control panel does not have to be powered up. There however is a red rocker switch on the main sargent unit which can be toggled to either charge or not chrage the batteries.

My Lancashire also has the Sargent charger and control panel. I agree with the above as far as it goes BUT- within the control panel you can choose which battery to use/charge, leisure or vehicle. You cannot charge both.

I'm led to believe that while this is true of the mains charger on the current Sargent (type 328) controller, the built-in solar controller distributes solar charging across both batteries automatically, though it is not as sophisticated as Modelman's dedicated solar controller, in that it is demand-based so you cannot choose a split ratio that it must use.

Interesting this as you learn something new every day thanks guys I had previously though that the control box charged the leisure batteries and then the main battery if it needed some. I see this is not the case and that you have to select the vehicle battery on the control panel to get the relay in the unit to kick over onto the other battery and hence charge it.
I could be wrong here but if the relay basically the last component before the output to the batteries the solar panel will also only charge which ever battery the relay is selected to. That probably an AS or Sargent question.
We normally have our LCD control panel powered of when not in the van but this needs to be kept powered up if wanting to charge the vehicle battery, once its powered off the relay latches back to select the leisure batteries. lol noticed that when i went out to check the operation of ours this morning and turned it off

It surprises me a bit about the solar charging both batteries, irrespective of which battery is selected for mains charging. I was basing this purely on what it says in the Sargent 328 User Manual, which ~appears~ completely unequivocal on the subject (but may nevertheless be unequivocally wrong!):

"The EC328PSU incorporates a built-in dual channel Solar Regulator that allows the direct connection
of a 20 to 120W solar panel without the need for additional components. The dual regulator charges
both the vehicle and leisure batteries simultaneously and connects to the PSU via a dedicated
connector on the base of the unit."