Tank Blankets

by Jmb Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:52 pm

Hi should the warwick xl have tank blankets or in tank heaters as on mine there is no blankets and there is no extra power draw that i can see when switching them off and on via the control panel.

by Paulmold Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:09 pm

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by PLOUGHLIN Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:30 pm

Part of the "Winter Pack". Do you have Concertina Cab blinds, which are also part it the pack?

by Caraman Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:34 pm

Jmb wrote:Hi should the warwick xl have tank blankets or in tank heaters as on mine there is no blankets and there is no extra power draw that i can see when switching them off and on via the control panel.

The A-S website indicates that tank blankets are part of the 'winter pack' which is an optional extra. The tank blankets are explained in the Harmony UMS Handbook. What is written in the current A-S handbook is out of date. The blankets if fitted will only work when the external temperature is 2 degrees or below and if either tank is at least 25% full. If you crawl under the van, the blankets are easy to see.

by FreelanderUK Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:52 pm

They are not actually blankets though, all they are is a heated mat strip stuck to the bottom of the tanks

by Cymro Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:04 pm

Caraman wrote: The tank blankets are explained in the Harmony UMS Handbook. What is written in the A-S handbook is out of date. The blankets if fitted will only work when the external temperature is 2 degrees or below and if either tank is at least 25% full. If you crawl under the van, the blankets are easy to see.

Owning a 2015 AS, I wasn't aware of the new operating parameters. So thank you for that information.

However, does it now mean that if the dreaded tank gauges have stopped working (for the various reasons posted in many threads on the Forum) and no longer accurately register the contents, then the blanket system won't switch on? And does the blanket system have its own thermostat to measure external temperature or is it coupled to the Sargent (or similar) external thermometer?

For all the good which the little heating pads do, it all seems very complex.

Cymro

by Caraman Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:22 pm

Cymro wrote:
Caraman wrote: The tank blankets are explained in the Harmony UMS Handbook. What is written in the A-S handbook is out of date. The blankets if fitted will only work when the external temperature is 2 degrees or below and if either tank is at least 25% full. If you crawl under the van, the blankets are easy to see.

Owning a 2015 AS, I wasn't aware of the new operating parameters. So thank you for that information.

However, does it now mean that if the dreaded tank gauges have stopped working (for the various reasons posted in many threads on the Forum) and no longer accurately register the contents, then the blanket system won't switch on? And does the blanket system have its own thermostat to measure external temperature or is it coupled to the Sargent (or similar) external thermometer?

For all the good which the little heating pads do, it all seems very complex.

Cymro

I'm afraid I don't know for certain. All I know is what is said in the the Harmony UMS Handbook which you won't have as its specifically for the EC700 which the OP and I have. My understanding though is that the 2 degrees or below is the external temperature measured by the EC700 and indicated with a frost symbol on the EC700 CP. There is no temperature sensor on or in the tank. My understanding is also that the 25% parameter relates directly to the gauge reading on the EC700 CP so if that is wrong it will mess up the heating pads just as the autofill on the freshwater tank will be messed up if that's reading 100% when its not 100% (there is no float switch as there is on the EC500). I have used the heating pads a couple of times for the freshwater tank but only when I know the tank is at least 25% full which will only be on an EHU pitch (i.e. not winter driving when my tank will be empty).

by Askit Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:03 pm

Cymro wrote:
Caraman wrote: The tank blankets are explained in the Harmony UMS Handbook. What is written in the A-S handbook is out of date. The blankets if fitted will only work when the external temperature is 2 degrees or below and if either tank is at least 25% full. If you crawl under the van, the blankets are easy to see.

Owning a 2015 AS, I wasn't aware of the new operating parameters. So thank you for that information.

For all the good which the little heating pads do, it all seems very complex.

Cymro

Cymro

As we have a similarly aged van I wondered whether the tank heaters on ours works in a different way to what Caraman has described on his system (not that I have ever used them). We have separate switches for each and, as far as I can tell, they don't work through the Sargent system. Have I missed something?

by Jmb Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:08 pm

Thanks for the replies, It has the winter pack but no external tank pads/blankets.

by FreelanderUK Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:10 pm

the winter pack also includes the wheel arches are insulated on the inside with a quilted material under the bench seats

by Caraman Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:11 pm

I have caused confusion for which I apologise. The current 2021/22 A-S Handbook points to the Harmony Utility Management System Handbook for detail on the EC700, which includes detail on the heating pads which is different to the detail shown in all earlier A-S Handbooks that pre-date the EC700. The problem however is that when A-S produced their 2021/22 Handbooks, they didn't remove or update the detail on the heating pads which is now out of date if you have an EC700 but not if you have an EC500. But if you have an EC500 you won't be using a 2021/22 handbook.

by FreelanderUK Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:13 pm

Askit wrote:
Cymro wrote:
Caraman wrote: The tank blankets are explained in the Harmony UMS Handbook. What is written in the A-S handbook is out of date. The blankets if fitted will only work when the external temperature is 2 degrees or below and if either tank is at least 25% full. If you crawl under the van, the blankets are easy to see.

Owning a 2015 AS, I wasn't aware of the new operating parameters. So thank you for that information.

For all the good which the little heating pads do, it all seems very complex.

Cymro

Cymro

As we have a similarly aged van I wondered whether the tank heaters on ours works in a different way to what Caraman has described on his system (not that I have ever used them). We have separate switches for each and, as far as I can tell, they don't work through the Sargent system. Have I missed something?

My 2016 WXL has one switch on top of the EC500 Cabinet under the bench seat and one one the EC480

by Caraman Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:13 pm

Jmb wrote:Thanks for the replies, It has the winter pack but no external tank pads/blankets.

Then I would definitely take this up with your dealer.

by Cymro Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:26 am

Askit wrote:
As we have a similarly aged van I wondered whether the tank heaters on ours works in a different way to what Caraman has described on his system (not that I have ever used them). We have separate switches for each and, as far as I can tell, they don't work through the Sargent system. Have I missed something?

No, Askit, you haven't. Ours are straightforward manual switches. The system is not dependent upon external temperature or minimum tank content.

Like you, I never bother with them. They don't protect the most vulnerable part of the water system - the underslung exposed, unlagged pipes.

Not much more than a gimmick. Far better to have tanks and pipes within the heated envelope of the van, as on some continental vans which are designed for real winter conditions.

Cymro

by Caraman Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:50 am

If I had been using my van during the prolonged cold spell we had last month, when for most of the time the outside temperature in the shade was zero or below, and well below zero on some occasions, I would have been concerned about the freshwater tank freezing or partially freezing and therefore I would have used the heating pad, if only for peace of mind. I think I read somewhere that some sites like Broadway had to close as their water taps froze.

I agree that the tank should be inside the insulated/heated envelope of the van for real protection as it was on a Knaus caravan we had. Even the gas bottles on that van were within the envelope. If I didn't have the heating pad I think I would lag the tank in some way to slow down the fresh water's heat loss in very cold conditions, or not use the van in very cold conditions.

by bertb Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:44 am

FWIW our 2013 Dorset had a heater pad on the fresh water tank but it was wired, through an inline fuse, directly from the hab battery. It took me a while to find the culprit when the battery was always flat when left for a few days. The switch was under the long seat without an indicator and no way of knowing when it was on. I took the fuse out.

by Caraman Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:03 pm

On later models the heating pads are integrated into the EC700 and will only operate when the outside temp is 2 degrees or below, the tank is showing at least 25% full, the engine is running, or for up to 15 minutes after the engine has been turned off, and when connected to an EHU.

by mrfixit4u Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:06 pm

Hello to all ...
Having a similar problem to others on here regarding the tank heaters.
EC700 - Tank heaters enabled in the advanced settings.
With the temperature @ or below 2degC (indicated on the read out also with the ice warning symbol showing + Tanks at 25% levels + on EHU. When I try to actuate each individual heater I cannot hear any relay switch over, nor can I see any increase in current draw. All fitted fuses are good without any missing as supplied by AS. However, there are some vacant spaces in the auxiliary/spare fuse section. Is it that they (AS) have not fitted a fuse in the correct place and thus the circuit is inopp?
Does anyone have extra fuses fitted in the aux. area, or is there a separate hidden switch lurking waiting to be simply switched on?

I have requested information from Sargent who have yet to reply, hence my posting on this forum.

Thanks
Mike

by Caraman Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:42 pm

Mine is all shutdown at the moment with no water in the tanks so I can't test it. I last used my heating pads about a year ago. I assume they worked when all the parameters were being met and the buttons illuminated on the EC700 'power settings' screen. I might have checked the 'power levels' screen to confirm they were working but can't honestly remember but it's the sort of thing that I would do. Certainly nothing froze and it was well below zero for most of the trip. My 12V DC fuses under the flap on the EC700 are exactly as shown in the harmony manual with 3 x spare fuses on the right (11, 12 & 13). Fuse 14 is hidden inside the EC700. The fuses in my EM40 are also as shown in the harmony manual with 2 x spares but with no fuses fitted. I'm using the van next week. If it's cold enough I'll give it a try but the forecast is it is going to warm up.

by mrfixit4u Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:00 pm

Much appreciated info - thanks.
Mike

by Caraman Sat Jan 21, 2023 5:22 pm

My A-S came with an A4 sheet of paper titled TANKBLANKET but the operation described on it is for pre-EC700 models as far as I can see. If we have the same TANKBLANKET, their website indicates one pad draws 4 or 5 amps 12V. If both pads are working that would be 8 or 10 amps which should show up on the 'power levels' screen under 'active battery' or an increase in mains current due to an increase in load on the PX300. The harmony manual doesn't show which 12v fuse they come under. It would be useful to find this out from Sargent. I can't see how anyone including A-S can test they are working unless the temp is down to 2 degrees and there is water in the tank.

by Caraman Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:17 am

Bone questions perhaps but was the AC plugged-in lightening symbol showing on the top bar of the EC700 CP, was the green mains charger/PX300 turned on and lit green and importantly was the No 1 25A charger fuse LED lit green? It's possible the heating pads draw their current directly from the mains charger through the No 1 fuse. Unlike the other EC700 fuses, it appears that the No 1 fuse LED does not go red when its blown. Although the frost symbol was showing on the top bar of the EC700 CP indicating the outside temp was below 2 degrees, what temperature was shown on the CP? Did you leave it on for a couple of minutes as sometimes it takes a while for things to happen?

by mrfixit4u Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:44 am

Thanks for the extra info.

I am hoping that Sargent will come back to me shortly with the following info.

Output connection on the underside of the fuses.
Is the output driven by SSRs or a mechanical relay.
How to mimic <2 deg C - I think this could be done using a set resistor in circuit as most TCs measurements are driven by current measurement - or possibly disconnect it. It depends on how the software uses the signal.

If Sargent could furnish me with a circuit diagram and an input / output port listing I can figure things myself - when it warms up a bit!

by Caraman Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:46 am

It would be worth sharing what you find out on the Forum. The more we understand the better.

by Caraman Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:36 am

Yesterday morning whilst prepping the van for our trip the external temp was minus 5 and internal temp minus 7. However, by the time we reached our site and filled the fresh water tank, the external temp had risen above 2 degrees and last night it was a balmy 4 degrees as it still is. So it doesn't look as though I will be able to test/use the pads on this trip. I am pretty sure whilst on an EHU they will draw their current directly from the PX300 through the No 1 green lit fuse with evidence of them working being a small increase in mains current of perhaps 0.5A which may not show up that clearly on the EC700 CP. I don't think there will be any increase in battery current. I don't know about relay clicks from the EC700. As you say it might have a solid state relay for the pads but I doubt it as the rest are not solid state.

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