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E10 Fuel- RIP pre-2000's petrol vans???

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Post by fluke Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:03 pm

Apologies for sounding a bit of a doomonger but this does all look a bit worrying.

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General gist is that there is a new standard for petrol to help with emissions which is basically adding more ethanol into the mix (10% up from existing 5%).  There is a lot of hubub about older vehicles not being compatible and can cause damage to fuel lines, carburettors and various seals. 

Looking online suggests the Peugeot vehicles became E10 compatible post 2000 so those of us rocking 90's Symphony's and Symbols with 2.0 petrol's might need to think ahead.  Bigger petrol stations will still be selling the older E5 stuff as "premium" fuel (aka: expensive) for the next 5 years but should we be worrying??

Has anyone else spent time looking at this so far? I cannot find a great deal online specifically about the peugeot/fiat 2.0 petrol but if anyone does have a bit more of an insight that would be most welcome!
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Post by Paulmold Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:34 pm

Subject only brought up yesterday...
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Post by Grabea Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:42 pm

When in France last year they had already started to roll out E10 petrol and bio petrol, however the E5 fuel was readilly available as well, not sure how this is going to evolve but I get the feeling that there is a hidden agenda to force older vehicles off the road to appease the greenies. The politicians deny this but there is a multi million pound industry which supports older classic vehicles and this must be supported, after all far more carbon is released to manufacture these new zero polution vehicles and the deadly components of their batteries than the emissions of this small minority of older vehicles.
Let's see some real, meaningfull testing of running older vehicles on E10, maybe it's not as bad as the bar room experts make out?
Rant over!
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Post by JandL Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:24 pm

Owner of 1999  2.0l petrol Pub Boxer, had a quick look and cannot find anything specific on pre 2000 models. 

Very little information other than use the more expensive E5.
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Post by Slaphead Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:04 pm

It appears you can solve the problem by using a fuel additive to your tankful.  Many different brands available.  It is the same additive as used to prolong the life of fuel over the winter months etc. in seasonable used engines.  The main problem caused by high ethanol is that it attracts moisture which lies in the bottom of the tank, carburettor, fuel lines etc. creating rust and gunge.

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Post by Grabea Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:19 pm

Etanols propensity for absorbing water is an issue, however, of more concern is its love of rotting flexible fuel lines and the resulting fire is potentially of more concern, easy to rectify with replacement hose of the correct ethanol resistant type, believe me a car fire is no fun, dangerous and helplessly watching your pride and joy go up in flames!
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Post by Arron Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:19 am

It's not just rotting flexible fuel lines that you need to worry about, it's corrosion of metal components such as fuel tanks, cracking of seals and lean running.

I won't be taking any chances with my October 2000 2L petrol Symbol and will be putting 97 RON E5 in it. I'll even be thinking twice about using E10 in my 2004 Ford Focus.
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Post by FreelanderUK Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:22 am

Will this increase the price that people pay for diesel vans and cars do you think

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Post by JandL Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:28 am

Think consensus might be to put in 97 RON E5 and sod the increase in cost. Better safe than sorry
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Post by Paulmold Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:34 pm

If you do 5000 miles in a year and your van does 24mpg, at todays average fuel prices,  using e5 will cost you approx £80 per year more than e10, is it really that big a deal?

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Post by Arron Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:49 pm

Not a big deal for me cost wise, it's just the inconvenience of finding a filling station that sells the stuff! I can't get E5 locally now and when traveling I will have to pull onto the forecourt to find out. I think that Shell stations will continue to sell E5 but not all the supermarkets will.
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Post by Dave 418 Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:50 pm

Whilst out walking this morning I was passed by a well worn Bedford CF motorhome. You could taste the emissions as it passed. How that has survived all these years is amazing but will the new fuels be the death of it. 
When unleaded first appeared there were lots of additives for sale. Will there be similar additives for the new fuel.
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Post by JandL Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:56 pm

Cost an issue for all those on a fixed income, just another expense increasing. Availability will be an issue for some, not sure how many forecourts will have a tank dedicated to a low demand fuel.

As for additives, might be some but unsure as to their effectiveness.
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Post by FreelanderUK Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:11 am

A fuel additive here 
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Post by JandL Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:28 pm

Looks promising - have used Lucas stop oil leak on a 220K mileage Volvo with great success so might invest in this.
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Post by Grabea Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:58 pm

Arron wrote:Not a big deal for me cost wise, it's just the inconvenience of finding a filling station that sells the stuff! I can't get E5 locally now and when traveling I will have to pull onto the forecourt to find out. I think that Shell stations will continue to sell E5 but not all the supermarkets will.
E10 is on sale from September 1st however some outlets have jumped the gun and relabelled pumps as E10 but it's actually E5, this was highlighted in Classic Car Weekly a couple of weeks ago, I run several classic cars from the 60's to the 80's so keep a close eye on the fuel situation, a couple of them need additives to protect from unleaded which is much cheaper than an engine rebuild with hardened valve seats.
I've seen a few products starting to appear claiming to negate the effects of ethanol in petrol but suspect some of them may be snake oil in a fancy bottle cashing in on the motorists misery and lack of proper information?
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Post by JandL Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:21 pm

Agree about the snake oil.
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