TV for motorhome 12v+mains?

by islandman Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:29 pm

I want to buy a TV for the Nuevo. Have been told that Avtex is the best, but it is too expensive (£350 for a 16" screen). Looking at a Cello (apparently of good repute), £240 for a 19" screen. We use mainly C.L.s (12 volt) so won't have mains, but it needs to be both 12volt and 240 volt. Any feedback on this topic would be gratefully received.

The motorhome has a Wing Teleco....(?) aerial which AutoSleepers fitted as original equipment; they think it is digital, but I need this confirmed. Can anyone confirm this, please? ('06 model).

I have seen an Avtex aerial (£35) working and, again, it seems to be of a very high standard. Has anyone experience of TVs/aerials on a motorhome, please?

by **Admin** Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:37 pm

islandman wrote:The motorhome has a Wing Teleco....(?) aerial which AutoSleepers fitted as original equipment; they think it is digital, but I need this confirmed. Can anyone confirm this, please? ('06 model).

The Teleco Wing aerials fitted by Auto-Sleeper are digital as confirmed on Teleco's web page Here: http://www.support-telecogroup.com/telecogroup/teleco/en/products/omnidirectional-antennas/WING.asp

Others will be able to advise you on choice of 12v TV.

by Paulmold Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:39 pm

The Cello 19" travel tv comes with 12v lead, built-in DVD player, made in UK with UK help-line (made in North-East)

http://www.celloelectronics.com/products/product_overview/73/C19103F_Traveller

All aerials are suitable for digital, it's the TV that needs to cope with digital not the aerial. You just need a clear direct line to the transmitter.

Cello Tv is available from Direct tv's for £169

http://www.directtvs.co.uk/Cello_C19103FQ-LED_Freeview_LCD_TV_C19103FQ-LED_BS/version.asp

by ubuntu1 Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:01 pm

something to think about in a mh is the viewing angle. Domestic tv's have a restricted viewing angle. In a m/h you maybe under the TV or at a strange angle. Avtex is expensive but copes with this very well. Try before you buy.

by CC Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:35 pm

This one might be of interest at £109

19 Inch LED TV/DVD Combi, HD Ready, Freeview & PVR, Black (19H6030-D)

http://www.finluxdirect.com/led-tvs/19-inch-led-tvdvd-combi-hd-ready-freeview+pvr-black-19h6030-d/invt/19h6030-d/&bklist=icat,2,12vtvs

by brodco Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:00 pm

Paulmold wrote:All aerials are suitable for digital, it's the TV that needs to cope with digital not the aerial. You just need a clear direct line to the transmitter.

Well said. Can we dispel the myth – at least on this forum? There is no such device as a “Digital Aerial” there are just aerials, some better than others just as it’s always been. The “Digital Aerial” thing has been used all too often to con people into buying aerials they don’t need.

ubuntu1 wrote: Domestic tv's have a restricted viewing angle.

Some do but by no means all. It depends on the type of display fitted. Displays with a wide viewing angle are more expensive so the TVs they’re fitted in tend to be the more expensive models. Some of the cheapies I’ve seen in our local supermarket look as if they’re off until you’re right in front of them. so_sad

Viewing angle certainly could be a consideration in a motorhome though, depending on where people are likely to sitting in relation to the screen.
Problem is that few manufacturers quote it in the spec (I wonder why) Whistle1

. Perhaps a good reason for buying over the web so you can send it back if it proves unsuitable. up!

Brod.

by islandman Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:27 pm

Thank you for your replies. I have made a note of your information, suggestions and contacts. I shall begin follow-up on Monday. It's good to know that the aerial should be ok.

I have looked at the Cello website and I am very pleased to see the possibility of buying one for about £170 ; that's really good. Thank you

by Peter Brown Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:34 pm

The choice of TV is relatively easy. All modern TVs receive the digital signal. If you are using hook up and staying in the UK any of those available cheaply are as good as any other. If you want to use the TV without hookup then a unit that can be powered direct from 12v and that has low power consumption is desirable. If you want to use the TV abroad then a TV that is programmed with the frequencies of those counties is needed.

If the later two points apply to you then you need one of the TV's aimed at caravanners (see the mags) and of those from AVTEX are certainly the best, not only for the quality of the unit itself but also for the brilliant aftersales service - ok also most expensive.

The real issue however is reception of the signal in the first place. If you are happy with not having TV reception at times then this is not an issue but if their are programmes you would rather see then this is an issue.

Post digitalisation a significant area of the UK is coverd by main transmitters that broadcast all Freeview channels with horizontal polarization. The standard AS aerial is omnidirectional (it doesn't have to be pointed at the transmitter) and horizontaly polarised. It (with its associated amplifier) will pick up TV broadcasts in the footprint of the main transmitters. To significantly improve the chance of receiving broadcasts from main transmitters a directional aerial is needed. As you approach your site look to see where aerials are pointing and point yours in the same direction (if you are near a border of, say, France, Germany and Switzerland then this can be confusing).

In the UK a large proportion of 'holiday regions' are in the shadow of the signal from the main transmitters and the locals are served by Repeater Transmitters. To avoid interference the signal broadcast by these transmitters is vertically polarised. To receive these broadcasts you have to adjust a directional aerial to the vertical plain or rely on the vertical element (spike) of an omnidirectional aerial. The current AS omnidirectional aerials do notwork well with vertically polarised broadcasts. Again, look at the roof tops as you approach ypur site to see what the locals do. Thes Repeater transmitters do not transmit all the Freeview channels but do have the prime BBC, ITV, etc. channels

If you really do want to see specific programmes then the only solution is to use a satelite dish with satelite receiver connected to your TV. Even then trees and other obstacles can prevent reception on yor particular pitch. A free standing dish/tripod gives the best chance of success but is vulnerable to wind on tarmac and theft. A roof mounted dish is more secure but cannot be moved (without the van) to avoid obstacles.

I've had the lot and ended up with a roof mounted (manually operated) satellite dish and a 'free to air' receiver but still have a directional terrestrial aerial as backup (plus of course CD and a good book!)

A bonus this year has been the ability (via satellite) to watch F1 live on the german RTL station whilst listening to the commentary on Radio 5 live.

Peter

PS Since starting to write this 'The Forum' has advised me of another post.

With respect to the performance of aerials let me just say that both the physical dimensions of the unit itself and the characteristics of the associated amplifier can be 'tuned' and the current models of those are specifically tuned to enhance recption of the 'digital signal'. This doesn't mean that old aerials won't pick up the current signal - they will - but not as well.

by gj1023 Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:39 pm

Try Richer sounds , got mine from there with 5 year warranty, cost around £110 , works on 12v ok

Gary

by brodco Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:15 pm

pcb7ty wrote: With respect to the performance of aerials let me just say that both the physical dimensions of the unit itself and the characteristics of the associated amplifier can be 'tuned' and the current models of those are specifically tuned to enhance recption of the 'digital signal'. This doesn't mean that old aerials won't pick up the current signal - they will - but not as well..

Sorry disagree (and sorry to those whose eyes are about to glaze over) but I think I need so say why I think this is wrong. Whistle1

As usual to oversimplify:

The size of the elements of the aerial determine its gain at any specific frequency. The transmission frequency band hasn’t changed. What’s changed is the modulation. It’s now qam (quadrature amplitude modulation) a form of modulation that can be demodulated and decoded to reconstitute a digital signal, but you can’t “tune” to the modulation you can only “tune” to the transmission frequency (ok you can suppress the carrier and tune to the sidebands but that’s not relevant in the current context). I stick with my assertion that there is no such beast as a “Digital Aerial”.

One of the problems with the digital signal is that for a variety of reasons it is far less tolerant of low signal levels – you need a strong signal. People who had to “upgrade” did so either because their original signal was poor or some of the new services were in another part of the frequency band – not because the signals were digital.

The amplifier is a different kettle of fish and needs to be treated separately. What will change with a change in modulation are the spectra and hence the energy in the sidebands. The amplifier needs to be wideband and have at least some gain at all frequencies in the UHF bands (bands IV and V, some 470 to 800MHz in the UK). I have heard that the spectra of the QAM signal caused problems with certain older amplifiers but as I’d never come across any problems I didn’t go into it so I can’t comment. Designing an amplifier with sufficient bandwidth and headroom to pass all the required frequencies is very different to “tuning it for digital”.

Regards.
Brod.

by **roli** Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:24 am

OK i'll join in

As previously stated all aerials should be ok for digital tv. The poorer ones that may not perform as well are the omni directional ones. There is also an issue here as I have posted previously here Coax quality is also of equal importance and in a lot of motorhomes its out and out rubbish.
Prior to us swopping the Executive I was going to change the aerial but on inspection of the coax that had been fitted when the was built that came from the pre-amp to the
RF lead socket found it to be out and out rubbish this was swopped and we save £100 or so not needing an new aerial.

The other issue mentioned by Peter is polarisation it is not possible to change the polarisation of the omnidirectionals (the little spike thingy is the vertical element !!)
Whilst many TV repeaters are Vertical (parts of the Lake District, N.Yorks Moors, Whitby, Scarborough, parts of Scotland to name a few)there are others that are vertical and you may not know if you are in a strange area. This info is available on the internet but the easiest and quickest way for you to find out is to download "UK Aerial Alignment" onto your phone which gives the direction the aerial needs to be and if its Horizontal or Vertically Polarised and indeed the TX name. This may be available for the iphone as well as Androids

Directional aerials are better for any TV including the now defunct analogue tv and this is why some people and organisations are wrongly calling them digital aerials.

Regarding the aerial pre-amps. Any aerial, transmitter, receiver, amplifier (matters not if its RX or TX amp type) must be suitable for the bands it operates.
If I tried using 50 or 28MHZ equipment on 1.8MHZ bands I would soon know about it apart from the fact it wouldnt work.

If there is an opinion that the pre-amps don't matter in this respect wait till they start shifting the Digital TV frequencies, which will last over the next few years
and you will find the current TV pre-amps are more use to your mobile phones than the TVs

by murph Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:31 am

Hi Islandman,
Nobody needs a 240v TV in a motorhome, a 12 volt TV will work even when you are on hookup, under these circumstances the 240v mains keeps the battery charged to prevent your 12volt electrics from going off. many small household TVs are actually 12 volt and have a transformer in the lead to reduce the voltage. If you have one of these boxes in the lead there is a sporting chance it is in fact a 12volt model.
The space ship type omnidirectional aerials do have a poor reputation for use anywhere except good signal areas, a directional aerial though dearer and requiring a little more fiddling with in poor signal areas is a far better bet, most of these also have a facility to alter the polarization if necessary.

Brian2

by Peterm Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:53 pm

Comet do a 19" with a 12v connection for around £100. It is edge lit, rather than backlit like the Avtex, but you won't notice if you are over 30. I hang my TV on a loop of wire attached to a cup eye screwed into the wood above the fridge. You have to take out that silly bit of a head rest before use.

You can change the viewing angles by stuffing various stuff, like a banana or a sardine tine behind the TV.

Hope this helps

Peter

by inspiredron Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:55 pm

Just to correct the record. Current A/S models have directional aerials. My 2012 Lancashire has a Telco that can do horizontal or vertical polarizaton plus an aerial amplifier. Current advertising for 2013 says Status aerial. The only thing missing is LEDs on the amplifier to give some idea of signal strength. Perversely the only time I had real problems was when spending the night outside Marquis at Newbury and missing Usain Bolt's 100m because of poor reception.

by Blossom Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:58 pm

We have just bought a Meos 13inch portable tv/dvd player which seems to be good with a wide viewing angle.
We did't want anything bigger to use in the Duetto where space is a bit restricted. £169.

Brad

by murph Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:41 am

Hi All,
Put TV mounting into the search box and you will find photos of how our TV is mounted, this would possibly allow you to use a bigger TV than some seem to think advisable, though ours is only 15inch.

Brian2

by bms10 Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:01 am

Hi Just thought I would add my 'three pennerth'.
There have been some very learned responses to your post which are well worth filing to memory.
From a purely practical viewpoint, arrived at over many years of attempting to watch TV on the
move, my experience has been:
The Aerial and its associated coax cable and properly made up connections play a major part in
performance. Too this end I would advise you to buy the AVTEX aerial at around £35, it has its
own amplifier which powers directly from an Avtex Tv, or you can do as I do supply it with 12v DC, and
it then plugs into your TV directly.
Since buying this little gem we have traversed a fair section of the UK and have invariably had VG reception,
most of the time with the aerial inside the van. You can use it at any angle to compensate for Vertical or
Horizontal signals as well as for signal distortion from offending structures.
As for the TV the choice depends on your depth of pocket. We use a 15inch combi bought from a chain store,
and always use it on 12Vdc via its dedicated 12Volt lead. If there is a disadvantage using one of these TV's
it is the comparatively narrower viewing angle. We compensated for this by fitting a tilt and turn bracket - job done.
As an aside Do Not run a 12 volt tv directly from your 12 volt supply without using a stabiliser lead - sometimes supplied,
or a 12 volt stabiliser. 12 volt Tv's are designed to run from 12 volts not some variant supplied from a charging source.
Hope this helps.
It works for us anyway. allthumbz

ATB
BnM

by Peter Brown Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:21 am

I agree the Avtex aerial/amplifier combination is good.

Mention of it reminds me that if you use an AVTEX TV without their own amplifier, make sure you go into the TV settings and turn off the aerial power supply. Conversley of course, if you want to use the AVTEX aerial powered by the TV then that setting on the TV must be switched to on.

Peter

by solent Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:36 pm

Curry’s do an own make LED screen 15” to 22” with or without DVD player for £89.00 to £119
(check price now because its sale time) these are quite light and can run on 12 volt or 240 via a supplied adaptor. From my experience the picture quality is very good and several members of our local Caravan Club have bought them to use in their vans

by Dave 418 Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:38 am

Not quite in the same leage as other peoples tellys but we have just bought a 9" Digital TV from Maplins for £89. Small yes, but in our Duetto it will be all we need, thinking of storage and the size of the van.
At my first attempt it wouldnt work and the intructions are translated to english from some far eastern dialect. Thinks me what is wrong, it keeps saying no signal available. Re-read instructions, try turning on to digital. blushes

Now all I do is plug it in and it works, no tuning good picture even in the van. I realise the picture quality may vary on some sites but it looks good so far. The van is fitted with one of the round dish type things with a spike on top and there is a booster in the cupboard behind the telly shelf. If we get signal problems we have a back up of a small portable DVD player or the nearest pub. allthumbz

by ubuntu1 Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:36 pm

If your not on hook up then the current drain of the tv becomes very important. I have a customer with a domestic tv running on 12v and that flattens his leisure battery in just one evenings viewing.

by Dutto Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:43 pm

Dave 418 wrote:............. we have just bought a 9" Digital TV from Maplins for £89. Small yes, but in our Duetto it will be all we need, thinking of storage and the size of the van.
.................

At last!!

I have watched the Thread, seen all these references to buying televisions up to 22" and thought "Why so big?" confused3

Our main TV at home is only 22" and I can see everything I want to see from across the room. wave

The 10" Avtex we have in "Petal" gives a superb picture and also has a DVD and VHF radio function. Here it is if anyone is interested:

http://www.avtex.co.uk/index.php/products/W103D

Best regards,
drinksallround

by brodco Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:06 pm

ubuntu1 wrote:If your not on hook up then the current drain of the tv becomes very important. I have a customer with a domestic tv running on 12v and that flattens his leisure battery in just one evenings viewing.

Humm the question why? springs to mind. scratch head

I bought a little 10" TV from Maplin a few years ago. It only takes 20W and perfectly big enough for the van. On the other hand I saw a nice looking 16" TV in Asda the other day. The spec on the box quoted 80W (not sure if that's right - seems excessive for a 16") so you do need to be careful.

I have been looking at Maplin's current 9" and a nice little unit it looks. More functions than mine and only 10W. Might even treat myself one day. up!

Brod.

by Paulmold Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:09 pm

I've also got a 10" (now now) it's a Nikkai, I think from Maplins originally (bought second-hand from a member on Facts) and that size is fine in the Symphony and in most cases the flying saucer aerial is OK. If I were to mount it permanently on a swing arm then perhaps I would want a slightly larger screen, say 15" but on the drop down shelf it's adequate.

by -mojo- Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:44 pm

Has anyone got a flip-down TV?

I don't really want nor need a TV in the van, but there's a panel above the cab in the van, which I think covers a steel frame with a gap in the middle, and that space is not being used, so it's likely one would fit in.

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