Peeling wood effect foil

The number of posts about poor quality and workmanship on our vans is starting to anoy me.Not because they are being discussed but because i have a relativly new van showing some of these issues ( and more) so expecting to have further issues to come.Also there are too many same and repeat deffects,indicating they are not being addressed.

Kdc, agreed, but please tell AS, as well as us.

Spospe wrote:Kdc, agreed, but please tell AS, as well as us.

It’s a fair point also telling A/S (and I agree it should be done) but.... do you really believe that they seem in the slightest bit seriously interested in addressing these common and well documented issues?

Am I correct in saying they are the top selling brand in the UK?

If so, do we buy a brand name and take what we get?

My friend had awful water ingress and lower chassis rust on a 1 year old French made van, now P/Xd, so wonder what the dealer told the new owner?
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Richard

rgermain wrote:Am I correct in saying they are the top selling brand in the UK?
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RichardR

If you mean by 'top selling' the most by number then I think AS are way behind Autotrail and Swift and possibly Elddis.

I have had dicussion with AS, even had paul curry (or was it alan)visit my van at home.It goes back to factory next week for a fortnight to remove internals through the back sufficient to replace rear shower room wall which i considered deffective and was initially informed it was consistant with plywood manufacture.Having challenged them to show me another example eventually got to point where i proved it was inconsistant. Not a good example of re-occurring and unaddressed defects but i did discuss other minor issues which seem to keep coming around,there was generaly an excuse such as bad batches from suppliers for example. Despite all this i do like my van,sorting out avoidable and common problems just stops me loving it.

I have just spoken to "Peter" of the AS Service Department and he says that their technicians recommend the use of PVA glue, watered down a bit to make it thin and non-lumpy. To be applied with a brush and weighted down until it sets.

Must admit to being a bit surprised at this choice, as I use PVA for wood, not plastic, but this is their recommendation. I will try it on one door and report back (probably in about a week).

thanks for the feedback from A/S Spospe.
I thought Pva glue would be the answer. sets harder than wood etc.
very fluid without dilusion but will thin it down a little as they advice. I have the original locker doors and will also try it out .

No answer from A/S that they will supply new replacement doors too all effected 2014 too present day??

I have tried using PVA as recommended by "Peter" of AS and it was useless. PVA will not stick plastic film / laminate, it is a wood / ceramic / fabric glue and will not work with plastic.

My next attempt will be to use Evo-Stik (or similar), I will report back here in due course.

Spospe, try Uhu , an impact adhesive that is thin and can be forced right to the point where foil still adheres using a spatula of cardboard or an old credit card.  It sticks the foil without a problem and will not go into rubber strings that are lumpy and visible under the foil. I used it last year on the bathroom door edge and it worked perfectly.
    Pva is useless and far too weak a bond for foil to mdf.

The recent advice from AS to use PVA adhesive, reported by Spospe, clearly doesn't add up, as has been discovered in practice.  It seems to me that AS have been a bit glib in their response and/or crossed wires are at work.  I imagine AS's cabinetry supplier(s) have used different wrap materials over time, and so the adhesives required for applying them will also differ.

This 2014 video from Vantage Motorhomes on build quality - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - refers to paper wraps being used widely in the industry.  Our previous van, a 2009 Symbol, certainly had paper wraps, which became all too clear during some of the mods I made. However I'm really not sure what the wrap material is on our 2014 Kemerton. Its surface characteristics look different to those of the Symbol and in the case of the light wood wrap it appears more like a wood veneer, as it has a very fine grain texture.  I can't believe it is real wood, and think it's more likely to be a vinyl wrap.  The dark wood trim wrap is more smooth and glossy in its finish and I guess that too is a vinyl.  Rather than make assumptions I will need to get AS's advice that's specific to our van.

My conclusion then, is that it's necessary to know the wrap material and then select an appropriate adhesive.  Diluted PVA would be fine in the case of a paper wrap onto a wood or MDF substrate, but clearly not for a vinyl.  Telling AS the build number ought to enable them to confirm the material used on a specific van and issue those of us affected with the relevant advice.  A general answer appropriate to all builds doesn't feel right at all to me.


Tim

Hi Tim, your van is the same as ours, it is a '3D' vinyl wrap with the wood grain  embossed into it. I should know as I have it flapping on all overhead lockers! The glue appears to be applied to the mdf core and  the wrap heated and applied and shrunk to fit so to speak. In our case as the wrap shrinks it overcomes the glue strength and pulls away clean . I have seen another van that instead of pulling away from an edge  , the glue strength seems to have been greater than the foil strength and it cracked the foil in a series of slash type 'rips' as it shrinks.
      Widely used in the industry as  you say but I remember talking to a designer at Explorer group fsctory tour who then said solid wood was 100% better choice for stability , durability and importantly lightness as wood is lighter ,stronger and vastly superior than mdf in day to day use .

kaspian wrote:Hi Tim, your van is the same as ours, it is a '3D' vinyl wrap with the wood grain  embossed into it. I should know as I have it flapping on all overhead lockers! The glue appears to be applied to the mdf core and  the wrap heated and applied and shrunk to fit so to speak. In our case as the wrap shrinks it overcomes the glue strength and pulls away clean . I have seen another van that instead of pulling away from an edge  , the glue strength seems to have been greater than the foil strength and it cracked the foil in a series of slash type 'rips' as it shrinks.
      Widely used in the industry as  you say but I remember talking to a designer at Explorer group fsctory tour who then said solid wood was 100% better choice for stability , durability and importantly lightness as wood is lighter ,stronger and vastly superior than mdf in day to day use .

No mention of cost, which I would think plays the major part.
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Richard

Just been out to put fridge vents on and then decided to take a look inside the van. Guess what, I found one of the overhead locker doors had peeling problem.

What happens next? As it is now coming up to 4 years old in January, I suppose I am out of luck with any help from Dolphin or the famous A/S.

Looks like a glue job.

Sometimes I am glad of my age being that this will be my last van, as I think luxury Hotels are looming up on the horizon, will miss the mobile loo.
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Richard

Kaspian - thanks for the clarification!  As you said in an earlier post, contact adhesive is the way to go.

Tim

This may help, probably for the older vans but I was impressed, please don't think of it as "fablon", it is far superior and £5 per metre at 45cm wide
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That looks really good. Was it difficult to fix?. Wish we'd been able to do that when we owned our Harmony. Having a 1996 Talent we found that a previous owner had varnished all the door fronts and it looks pretty good.

HI

Degreased the existing with pure alcohol, sanded using a scotchbrite pad to remove any nibs.
Cut foil to size approx ( bigger than needed).
Pull backing paper from top corner, be sure that the grain is vertical then just  sqeegee it all the way down with an old credit card.
I got the grain detail from AS
Also made a small chest of drawers, and used the offcut to grain that too, matches quite nicely I think?
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That looks really good. well done useful too.

Really impressive finish and very clever use of space too. Thank you for sharing your know how!

kaspian wrote:Spospe, try Uhu , an impact adhesive that is thin and can be forced right to the point where foil still adheres using a spatula of cardboard or an old credit card.  It sticks the foil without a problem and will not go into rubber strings that are lumpy and visible under the foil. I used it last year on the bathroom door edge and it worked perfectly.
   

kaspian, I have tried Uhu and it seems OK at the moment. I will report back after some decent time has passed to confirm that it has made a permanent job of sticking the foil or not.

Hi I have just joined this forum and I have the same problem with our head lockers and found the best way to stick them down was to mask off the edge of foil and the chrome strip then use a small brush and evo stick under surface leave five minutes and press down for instant stick. Our bathroom door also delaminated but we replaced that with new door. Hope this helps.

Stewnju wrote:Hi I have just joined this forum and I have the same problem with our head lockers and found the best way to stick them down was to mask off the edge of foil and the chrome strip then use a small brush and evo stick under surface leave five minutes and press down for instant stick. Our bathroom door also delaminated but we replaced that with new door. Hope this helps.

Thanks, yes I think this is the solution to the problem.

Mr Curry still is not responding to my 5 emails!!!!

Anyone know if he is still alive and kicking or what should I do?

I will never recommend AS to anyone and new buyers beware.
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:sensored1:off Richard

Stewnju, thanks for that, good to know.  The day is approaching when I’ll need to deal with our foils on the overhead lockers.  I imagine you need a fairly stiff brush to apply Evostick underneath the edge of the foil, given the small gaps involved and the stickiness of the adhesive.

Tim

Uhu still seems to be sticking the foil down OK. It is a bit less 'stringy' than Evostick and is what I personally will be using on any more peeling panels.