Tell me why to buy a Van conversion??

If you look at a van conversion from the rear it should soon be obvious why the Ducato/ boxer vans are so popular. They carry the width at waist level all the way to the roof meaning more room at head level and easier fitting of lockers etc. 
        Mercedes / Vw crafter vans are considerably narrower at roof level meaning lockers must be shallower depth or stick out into the usable space at head level. A/s have some good layouts but quality imho has suffered greatly in recent years. 
       Buying at 2 to 3 years old should have seen the poor original owner having suffered the stress of getting the van sorted ! Some of the smaller converters are gaining a fantastic reputation for customer care and this is paramount when you have just spent upwards of 55k on a vehicle!  
          As Roly and others have said , go with an open mind , dont be a badge snob , get in the van and shut the doors. Imagine living in this space in a typical  horrible damp day! Eventually the right layout will click!

A lot of sense in this thread, to which I will add only one tip - which always worked for us.

As you look round van after van, take with you a pencil, and a pad divided into three columns for noting down individual features and functions.

1). Don't want this at any cost.

2). Not too bothered either way.

3). Must have this.

Do this with your imagination in top gear as Kaspian suggests ("Imagine living in this space in a typical  horrible damp day! Eventually the right layout will click!") and you will soon know what you want in a layout . . . or perhaps more importantly, what you definitely don't want.

Oh - and beware of the "Wow" factor. You step into a van and it's wonderfully light and airy with the huge roof light over the cab. Great, but where do you store the duvets?? (Just one of our "Don't wants" of course.)

and to add to Gromit's post, are there any physical limits that apply. I don't have a C1 licence so <3500kg was a must and we only have a little over 6m to park in so that was a limiting factor too.

dbroada wrote:and to add to Gromit's post, are there any physical limits that apply. I don't have a C1 licence so <3500kg was a must and we only have a little over 6m to park in so that was a limiting factor too.

That is a very valid point, parking and licence, even if it does not apply at time of purchase, 70 soon comes around!

Of course you can always use remote parking, but it would not suit us, as we like just getting out during the week for walks on the beach.
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Richard

roli wrote:Spend a few months, yes months looking around at all vans Coachbuilts and Panel Van Conversions, even those that may not appeal at 1st sight. Dont be tempted to buy during this "vetting" period.   After say 3/4months then you should have a short list and consider other factors like the better dealerships and spares availabity you get with VW, Ford, Mercedes than say Peugeot.
When this process is completed decide on a dealer by reading reports on here and elswhere and of course word of mouth.    Lowest price does not mean best dealer.   

Keep Looking

You might also like to buy from a dealer near to where you live to avoid any long trips to get things fixed, if required. Hopefully the van will be trouble free
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Richard

IanH wrote:ALWAYS think width, the most important dimension. Any non PVC is close to 1ft wider than my Warwick.

And length, will it fit in the drive, will I manage to park it when shopping? So many things to think about.

We were advised by Dolphin who actually had the Duo and Duo xl on the forecourt to go for the Duo, shorter but so much easier to manage.
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Richard

kaspian wrote:
       Buying at 2 to 3 years old should have seen the poor original owner having suffered the stress of getting the van sorted ! Some of the smaller converters are gaining a fantastic reputation for customer care and this is paramount when you have just spent upwards of 55k on a vehicle!

We have a 20yo AS Symbol. Everything works. Everything. No leaks, no damp etc. It's got everything we need, incl a bike rack and a gaslow system.

We haven't had it long but we really enjoy using it, and campervan life in general, so we're in the process of selling it to get a bright new shiny one. One of the benefits was, I thought, getting a warrantee on both the conversion and the van / engine. I really don't want to waste time and effort, not to mention the stress involved, in getting new van issues resolved... Are they really that poorly made, that unreliable?

I would like A/C in the cab, and to be able to cruise along at 70mph, particularly going up-hill. A more car-like driving experience would also be nice. She also wants a microwave instead of a gas oven.

So, what are the benefits / pit-falls in getting a 2yo or perhaps a 3yo camper? The savings aren't massive, and I don't have much faith in CV dealers from what I've read.

I really don't want to waste time and effort, not to mention the stress involved, in getting new van issues resolved... Are they really that poorly made,

They are not THAT poorly made, but for 50k+ they are not as good as they should be and certainly not perfect, and there are a few Friday afternoon specials too. The modern manufacturing thinking seems to be, make it as fast as possible and we will fix the reported errors at leisure.

One example may be the microwave. Not everybody uses the microwave for anything other than a bread bin. Why make sure they work perfectly when so few people will find fault? There are also the types of error that the owner fixes rather than go through the supplier. Many of the faults are trivial and come down to attention to detail, or building to a compressed timescale. By the second season most of these problems will have been exposed and fixed so that is one benefit from buying nearly new.

This methodology is not unique to Auto Sleeper. Being a new Swift owner I see the same problems being reported on their forum pages.

The advantage I had buying a Swift over an Auto Sleeper was that the dealer I used invited us to stay on his campsite for a few days to make sure all this issues were fixed before we left him. We had to return immediately as the bathroom door opened itself at the first roundabout but that was fixed straight away.

When we bought from Marquis we had to drive it away and make an appointment to have any issues corrected.

Spot on Dbroada       From personal experience , and the experiences of others well documented , yes there can be Friday afternoon vans. I think , more annoying is , as an engineer , seeing what passes for  quality build nowadays. Poorly fitting cabinetry, peeling paper 'veneer' , drawers with little or no screws fixing runners , similarly blind cassettes etc. And of course the massive water leak we had from a roof extractor fan that was firstly drilled in the wrong place then botched to fit. I have also witnessed first hand the shocking pipework to a gas barbecue point of a fellow member....
        I have spent 3 years repairing what should have been done right at manufacture. This year has been the first since purchase when I can say everything has just worked and it has been great!  A/s warranty duration is still woefully behind rivals , even brands owned by parent Trigano and marketed as a budget van....
        A/s market themselves as Motor homes  of Excellence but dont back up that boast with a cast iron industry leading  warranty duration  . They do however charge the premium price. I see Elddis have finally produced camper vans in the cv20 and 40 . Prices from £37+ k ... Is it really that bad for £20+k less than an A/s ? Or A/s sister brand Tribute 670 , again around 16k less with a better duration of warranty to boot! That saving could fill it with a load of toys that you just must have instead of what they think you will buy !  

Just another quick thanks for all the great advice you have all given.
David

Pros and cons to whatever van type you buy but with most PVC's they are compact enough to drive virtually anywhere a family size car will go - narrow country are lanes are no problem at all and i use my van regularly, even going to the supermarket in it each week. They are also compact enough to fit on a small drive.

Bulletguy, you and I must both have had sleep problems last night, I saw your reply at 0320 this morning!!

I fully understand those cons you mentioned as I had a VW T5 camper for 5 years so even the smallest Symbol will seem like luxury.

I’m off to a dealer today armed with my trusty tape measure and list of all the essential kit I need to fit in. This list is the result of 15 years experience in tents, campers and my current tiny Eriba Puck caravan.
I will post up my initial thoughts later which I hope will be of use to people in a similar position to me at some point in the future.

Just a useful thing to note. You can store stuff inside the van on the floor if necessary when travelling. When you site the van transfer surplus stuff to the front footwell, behind the swivelled front passenger seat or onto or in front of drivers seat.That way you should have all the room you need for minimum effort.
However you will be amazed at the proper storage places within the Symbol.
Martin

roli wrote:Spend a few months, yes months looking around at all vans Coachbuilts and Panel Van Conversions, even those that may not appeal at 1st sight. Dont be tempted to buy during this "vetting" period.   After say 3/4months then you should have a short list and consider other factors like the better dealerships and spares availabity you get with VW, Ford, Mercedes than say Peugeot.
When this process is completed decide on a dealer by reading reports on here and elswhere and of course word of mouth.    Lowest price does not mean best dealer.   

Keep Looking

Yes i have done that. But nothing compares with actually living in your vehicle.! Check you weight,most vehicles are overloaded.
With a coachbuilt  i have had 3.More free space ie ,WIDTH. those extra few inches count.  Warmer with no need to use front seats.Plenty of storage and in my case easy to get to spare wheel.Never have trouble with roads or parking.For instance drove all round  Ireland!
Been under a few low bridges with success.  Do  8000 miles a year so i get to see a lot of roads.  
For short trips the pvc is ideal.But space is king on long stops in a Coachbuilt or A class.
I suggest hiring if you can hire the nearest model to what you want.
I have had 50 cars so i never get it right. +one Symphony.
Newer the better in my experience.
Micky

Well I’m back home with a much needed glass of wine in hand!

Today’s trip to give the Symbol the thorough ‘test’ was 100% successful and proved that the feeling that when you first sit inside a Motorhome and it ‘feels right’ (as mentioned by many) it usually is!!

The Symbol isn’t without limitations, the main one being that the storage space is good but not as good as I had hoped.
 That aside, I loved it. Sitting on the sofa with the slider open was just magical.
I sat inside the Warwick duo, Kingham, Fairford and the rest of the range. They are all absolutely lovely but the layout wasn’t right for me. 
I guess that is the thing, we are all so different in what we want from a Motorhome that there is no right or wrong, it is what works for you.

I have actually come home and now put a deposit down on a Symbol, will update on Monday when I go to see it if anyone is interested!!!!!

There are lots of pluses for a pvc and we looked very hard at them when we bought our Nuevo. The clincher for us was storage. In a pvc the side lockers are VERY much smaller. When we bought ours in 2012 we refused to buy the 2012 body but asked for a 2011 body on a Euro 5 chassis. The 2012 body had lost the overcab lockers and the wet locker. Both have been reinstated now but they are smaller than on our 2011. Yes it is a bit wider but it is easier to drive than a pvc as it is the short wheelbase and turns on a sixpence. We would not manage our months away in a pvc.
One thing to check on pvc's is whether the windows open - some fixed windows still have fly screens!

Good luck dbvwt, it’s an exiting time!  Look forward to hearing about your purchase !! 

Short WB vans do have a small turning circle but we have to watch the back swinging out. I grazed a tree with our previous van (managed to polish out the mark), and a friend has just scuffed his back nearside corner on a wall when manoeuvring around a parked car.

Like Ron I prefer the extra space for storage in a Nuevo.

Thanks Lorfal, I wasn’t in a rush to buy but when the right deal came up it had to be done!
Have to agree about the space in the Nuevo, it’s amazing considering it’s only 5.7m. 
The Symbol still has more storage than my previous campers so I’m sure it will work for just the 2 of us.

Thanks to all the useful advice from everyone, I’ve been to the dealers today to view the Symbol I’d put a deposit on at the weekend.
Glad to say it was exactly as described and the paperwork has been signed.
Looking forward to becoming a fully fledged member who will soon actually own an Autosleeper

Has anyone told you about the initiation ceremony?

Ha ha, go on then tell me.

If it involves spending any more money there is none left after today!!!

Hi DVBWT I’ve just bought a panel van conversion - Autosleeper Symbol 2003.  Like you did wonder about coach or panel but in the end the limitations of a caravan door on the coach built and extra width put me off.  Love the large side opening door and even with a MWB it fits in a parking space both re width and length (just).  Also the twin opening doors along with the side door allow large items to be carried.

But I’d add I’m on my own and even then love my space and do wonder how families fit in!

Am loving my autosleeper and am travelling and living in it more or less full time at the moment.

Dbvwt wrote:Bulletguy, you and I must both have had sleep problems last night, I saw your reply at 0320 this morning!!

LOL i only just read your post but no i don't really have sleep problems as such....just found it difficult to get off nights despite retiring eight years ago! You won't find me posting on the forum at 8am like some of the early birds....i'm in the land of nod then! Glad to see you got sorted in the end. Enjoy your Symbol!

Thanks Bulletguy, hope my reply hasn’t caused your phone to beep and wake you up!
Robinwid...Glad you are enjoying the symbol, half the time I get away it’s just me also so should be plenty of room.
Hopefully only another 11 days to wait till I pick mine up.