Rattling blind in van conversion sliding door

Like others we have been driven mad by rattling blind assembly fitted to the range of van conversion sliding doors. On closing the door it is subjected to large forces and can be seen wobbling about behind the cloth covered inner  panel.  Especially bad for the passenger in the 3rd seat at the side door in our van . Finally spurred on by others on this forum I removed the caps and screws from the cloth covered panel to expose the blind . Surprisingly it is held by a few thin weedy metal strips screwed to the thin plastic flange allowing the whole blind assembly to wobble about like a table jelly. 
        Permanent fix might be to fashion wood strips and screw and glue to the door then fix  blind to this as others have done but as we are in the middle of a monsoon at the moment  I made a few more substantial brackets and fixed these using a medium density closed cell foam between metal door frame and blind as a temporary fix. Rebuilt door and - bliss! No rattle and door now closes with a satisfying thunk and not the half dozen marbles in a biscuit tin racket. Thanks to others who have done this fix and spurred me on to act - you know who you are! One hour to fix and another to recover the screw caps that found their way under the front passenger seat requiring removal of the seat and underseat tool box to recover the caps!  Question is with all their experience why was it built like this in the first place ? Peace returns....

Would like to do the same but having a Warwick Duo can only get to one side of the door, because of the bathroom compartment blocking half of the door.

Has anybody tackled this on a Warwick Duo ?

Hubert

“Question is with all their experience why was it built like this in the first place ? “

Why exactly - Same old story I am afraid kaspian. Even when the AS Service Centre informs them of reoccuring issues, they don’t seem to listen! So what chance do customers have of being listened to. It has been said before on this forum, someone from AS should spend a little time monitoring this well respected forum. After all it is an excellent feedback source.

Or perhaps someone high up on the forum should be nominated just to pass on our concerns and to monitor responses from AS, after all most of us love our motorhomes, and have invested large sums of money in AS. It could make for an even better forum, benefitting both manufacturer and customer.

Sorry for the rant, but we have also had build quality issues with our AS motorhome, though now mostly sorted, hopefully!

I am sure you all agree, it would be nice if we could be listened to.

Pete

Couldn't agree more Pete.

It's not as if they are new designs, they've been producing the same for years and we are only talking of minor mods that would vastly improve customer satisfaction.

I also can't believe that no one at A-S visits the forum, they just don't wish to comment. Sad really.

Hubert

Pete , I know where you are coming from, it would be in their interest to monitor the forum and investigate common problems.  Like the new member who works for Whale who sourced the grey flap where it seemed only white were available. Speaks volumes of a company giving the impression they care while others dont seem to give a rats....
      The door blind problem is common to all van conversions , easily fixed and from what others say the factory are aware so why not modify your build methods? It really beggers belief.  They are creating a forum full of Victor Meldrews !  At least it gives us something to do over the winter months!

Hubert , I feel your pain, access to the bottom left hand screws is a problem . Would a right angled screwdriver fit between kitchen and door in the case of Fairfords and Kinghams and toilet and door in the case of Warwicks help or perhaps a flexy drive? I have a adaptor for my 1/4 inch socket set that takes screw driver bits but would still need around 40mm clearance.Over the years I have fashioned many specialist dealer only  workshop tools to do specific jobs on specific cars so perhaps you could lash something together to access those 3 or 4 screws.Watch project Binky then access fears will melt away!
          As I said, I am not the first to do this mod so take no credit and from what I hear will not be the last.  Believe me the silence that breaks out is worth the effort!

If consumers keep buying the product, there’s no pressure to sort the problem. So long as the money is rolling in who cares, there will always be warrenty issues unfortunately management styles can lack the vision to think prevention and continual improvement is the way forward. I used to be a quality manager in a manufacturing environment and it’s a long fight to change attitudes in production and sales teams.

kaspian wrote:Hubert , I feel your pain, access to the bottom left hand screws is a problem . Would a right angled screwdriver fit between kitchen and door in the case of Fairfords and Kinghams and toilet and door in the case of Warwicks help or perhaps a flexy drive? I have a adaptor for my 1/4 inch socket set that takes screw driver bits but would still need around 40mm clearance.Over the years I have fashioned many specialist dealer only  workshop tools to do specific jobs on specific cars so perhaps you could lash something together to access those 3 or 4 screws.Watch project Binky then access fears will melt away!

Thanks Kaspian, have a right-angled drive and will have to check clearance. Looking at the door board covering, it's not exactly well fitted on my van (slightly bowed between screws) so suspect that A-S themselves had problems accessing/fitting the screws.

It would be nice to get rid of one of the rattles. The microwave being the other which I will have to tackle over the winter.
Neither job easy when van is kept in storage.

Hubert

Try one of these, it's what I use for the more difficult screws and small spaces etc.

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Hubert wrote:It would be nice to get rid of one of the rattles. The microwave being the other which I will have to tackle over the winter.
Neither job easy when van is kept in storage.
Hubert

Morning Hubert

We silenced our microwave quite easily - yours might respond to the same TLC. 

Mrs Gromit made a felt bag for the glass plate, which effectively quietens that when in transit.

We then realised the door itself was rattling as well. It needed a bit of tension against the catch, so I found a bit of adhesive foam rubber and stuck that on so the door compressed it when closed. It was trial and error to get the thickness right, and I ended up sticking a piece at both top and bottom of the door frame, but it worked.

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks GP1069, I have one of those in my toolbox.

Dave thanks for the suggestions.

My microwave problem is with the actual shelf and the attachment of the microwave to the shelf with the self-tapping screws (as reported by many Kingham owners). The shelf is starting to drop ever so slightly and the self tapping screws are no longer tightly holding the microwave. I am reluctant to tighten the screws, until ready to do the job, for fear of stripping the thread (if you can call it that)  as others have done.
Will be fitting modesty blocks to support the shelf and removing microwave from it's chassis to try and fix something more substantial for the screws to bite into.

Should keep me off the streets for a while.

Hubert

Hi again Hubert

I know what you mean about stripping the threads in the base of the microwave. Been there and done that! 

I took the easy way out however, and got some very slightly fatter self tappers with a very deep cut thread. (They probably have a proper name, but I don't know it.  ) The deep threads cut into the metal base of the microwave much more firmly, and I never had a problem afterwards.

One tip though. Get a couple of spare self tappers. It took quite a force to cut new threads into the metal base, and I rounded off the Pozidrive head of one screw by being clumsy.

Hi Hubert, yes the modesty blocks and longer screws to replace what fixed the shelf originally cured the shelf coming adrift. Has been perfect for the last 18 months. The blocks are available in a range of colours and are a perfect match for the light coloured fake wood interior. ( verada oak?) Just be careful to match screw length securing the block so there is no break out on the reverse side of the panel. Again makers are perfectly aware of the problem but seem to ignore it as you say new buyers are still having same issues that were flagged up 5 years ago..

I also will be having a go at the Sliding Door blind and thanks to all for that.
Re the Microwave fixed mine some time ago as explained

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mine very quite now

David

Hubert wrote:

Thanks Kaspian, have a right-angled drive and will have to check clearance. Looking at the door board covering, it's not exactly well fitted on my van (slightly bowed between screws) so suspect that A-S themselves had problems accessing/fitting the screws.

Hi Hubert

Agree with Kaspian, well worth the effort. Did mine 3 weeks back to a Kemerton XL, easier than yours though.
I will advise getting yourself a bag of 19mm x 3.5 flange head self tappering screws to replace the countersunk screws used by A/S as the C/sunk screws tend to pull into and through the plastic cups that take the cover caps. Only 80p per 100. Also long enough to use to fix back the cassette card if you go down the timber surround stuck to metal door route.

Cheers Windy

Thanks to all for the helpful suggestions.

That's exactly why I think this is one of the best, if not the best, forum on the internet. Everybody is more interested in being helpful.

Cheers
Hubert

Taking the panel off the sliding door to view and re-fix the window casement can be fiddly but buy sliding the door back and forward to obtain advantage points can be found which enables a small ratchet with a screw driver fitted to get to each screw.
A right angle drill fitting may help (I have now brought one from eBay for future jobs)
When the screws are removed you will need to remember the positions because some are different sizes.
I found 4 angle brackets that should have been screwed with self tappers to the casement and the door that needed to be fixed.

Because this is such a common issue it makes me think that the window casements are fitted by a company then for some reason removed, so that other works can be carried out possibly insulation, Door liner, glass window opening, or other such. Then "who ever" is not refitting the casement back in place. It only takes one JOBS WORTH to think its an others job.
Auto-Sleeper would need to review the build stages to isolate where the week link is.

If as a forum a high level Topic / Heading easy to find for the new visiter could be created that was CHECK BEFORE YOU BUY targeted at potential new buyers giving them a list of (not specifically faults) things to look for and get resolved by the dealers before parting with any cash. This could make for happier owners and the dealers & Auto-Sleeper would get the message.

Just a Note at the NEC Motorhome Show last week we managed a 20min chat with David from Auto-Sleeper. 
We totally vented all our issues with the build quality of our New Kingham. Stressing the point that we liked the set up and van etc, but the build was poor. Which was letting a quality design and brand name down. He mentioned that dealers when they receive the vehicles are paid to carry out the PI and sign for the vehicle. We may not have made David's day but we felt a little easier.

Not a solution but a general observation - my neighbour has a 20 year old Mazda Bongo with soft a close door, you gently pull it up to position and it closes itself.  Why don't things improve with technology?
Rich..

Thanks one and all did the door today it now shuts with a nice clunk instead of sounding like it is going to fall to bits.

Anybody got any photos of the fix.

greycaster wrote:Anybody got any photos of the fix.

Hi greycaster.
Found a couple of photos so hope these help.
 The first one is of the rear door window and the timber fixing that A/S did.  This gave me the idea to try the same way of fixing the sliding door blind cassette.  The second photo is of the stripped down side window showing one of the angle brackets that hold the cassette support panel.  The third photo is a close up of the bottom timber that I fixed with CT1  and the fourth photo is of the four lengths of timber fixed in place and blacked out. Remember that the van is a Kemerton so access for me was easy.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It may pay to get some spare screw cups and caps, A/S should supply them.  Would also recommend buying some flange head selftappers 19mm long x3.5mm, cost 80p per 100. These flange head screws will replace the shorter countersunk screws that you remove when taking off the fabric covered door card, also to fix the black blind cassette panel to the new timbers as they won't pull through like the countersunk screws.

I used 25mm high x 20mm wide softwood fixed with CT1 to the four sides of the window. The thickness of the timber is determined by the distance behind the angle bracket to the metal door minus the thickness of the black cassette support panel. (my panel was approx 5mm thick)  My top and bottom timbers were the same thickness. One long face needs to be bevelled so the timber fits to both faces of the door. You will also need to round off one long corner. When fitting nicely apply a liberal amount of CT1 to the relevant faces of timber and gently rub into position. Leave overnight to fully set.   The side (vertical) timbers are a slightly different thickness and shape because the door face is curved, you will need to sort this as difficult to explain.
I found that the black cassette support panel was fixed to the blind cassette by only 4 screws so I proceeded to apply a bead of CT1 all the way around the cassette and let it set.   The Panel was then fixed back to the new timbers via 10 No. flange head screws ( instead of just 4 ) this along with the afore mentioned bead of adhesive made for a very securely fixed blind 
There are many good polymer adhesives, I have been using CT1 for as long as its been available and it sticks most things to most things. You will need some acetone to clean any spillages though.
Think that about it, you could p.m. me if you need more info.

Regards Windy

Wow, pretty detailed description. Thanks for the info, this will be one of the jobs on my list when I get home. Were you having a problem with the blinds in your rear doors, ours seem to be ok.

greycaster wrote:Wow, pretty detailed description. Thanks for the info, this will be one of the jobs on my list when I get home. Were you having a problem with the blinds in your rear doors, ours seem to be ok.

Totally agree, such dogged determination and enthusiasm to make good an otherwise flimsy build spec in what is considered a quality make of motorhome. 

greycaster wrote:Wow, pretty detailed description. Thanks for the info, this will be one of the jobs on my list when I get home. Were you having a problem with the blinds in your rear doors, ours seem to be ok.

Hello again
Didn't think there was a problem with rear doors, just wanted to see where the fixing points were for my first upgrade (mounting 2 lightweight chairs on rear doors) as in the photos.   While door panels were off I put extra insulation into the stiles and rails of doors. Covered in this post  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
The chairs seem to stay in place but probably only any good as a storage solution on a Kemerton.

sorry about first two photos on side, don't know how to rotate.  
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