Should I buy this Symbol?

Hi All, you helpfully gave me lots of advice on looking for a Symbol some time ago. Well I have now found one and put down a deposit, subject to RAC inspection. It is a 2005 Symbol with 33,000 miles on the clock and looks in good condition.

My only concerns when I test drove it were that the gear changes were a bit stiff and that there was a very small puddle of water in the passenger footwell (which the dealer said he'd investigate and fix) but the RAC inspection was done today and they've found a few issues. The dealer hasn't seen the report yet but obviously the RAC man gave him a heads up, so the Dealer called and told me that the clutch needs adjusting and it needs a new spare tyre, both of which he'll happily do. However, when the RAC man called me this evening he told me that the clutch needs replacing. There are other smaller issues such as the hand brake has too much play and needs adjustment, and the van has had a prang to a wing at some point but has been repaired. There is also a whistle from either the engine or exhaust but he said it is from the rubber housing (?). Friends have advised that if the dealer will replace the clutch and fix the minor issues, I should go ahead with the purchase but otherwise walk away. This seems ok advice - but others have questioned why the clutch has worn out so quickly at 33,000 miles. I'm now having a few doubts but keep reminding myself that it is 11 years old so it is not going to be perfect!.... I don't know anything about vans/campervans hence having got the pre-sale inspection, so I guess I'm hoping you can reassure me about this?

Thanks

Hi,
It depends on the price

£23,995

I should add it looks pristine inside, so it really is the base vehicle I'm worried about

The whistle on tick-over when cold is quite common on Boxers and Citroen Relays (same vehicle) . My Nuevo on a Boxer does it and my cousins Relay does it. It is just to with the exhaust mounting and nothing to worry about.

Hi,
There are a number advertised on ebay, I would expect the dealer to attend to the rac faults and as it is the end of the season you are in a good bargaining position. Any warranty you get is only as good as the dealer, you need to be happy with him as well the van,
Chris

At this age I would go for one with a higher mileage as I would think these base vans are best when used regularly. But if you really want it don't let me put you off.

Paul - good to hear that the whistle isn't an issue.

Chris - good point, I hadn't considered end of season being good for bargaining. I will definitely ask for all the issues to be fixed and a new clutch. I'm just worried that I don't have the knowledge to know if things have been fixed properly. It is a shame that the RAC inspection doesn't include re-inspection afterwards!

Oldfred - hmmm, I had heard that they need good use. I have been looking for a while though and always been put off by the (internal) wear and tear which is why I was excited to find this one. I'm going to have to think long and hard about whether to start looking again.

Please don`t be put off by low mileage, I bought mine a 10 year old van with 9,700 on the clock, I have nearly  done that in the three years I have had her, had no problems,

Friends of mine bought a large motorhome four years ago with 9,000 on the clock they haven`t had any problems either, providing it has had regular oil and filter changes mine are done every 3,000 miles with a good oil, pays dividends.

if otherwise it looks ok inside, no damp,  the other issues can be fixed preferably by the dealer also do you get a warranty?. I myself would expect one, I had 12months on mine,  base vehicle as well as habitation side.


Good luck and hope it is your dream van.

Regards,
Margaret

Hi Margaret, thanks for your reply - good to hear you are pleased with yours and the low milage didn't hurt! It only comes with a 3 month warranty though the dealer seems to have good reviews online for customer service. I was so excited about this van but feel a little bit jaded now knowing it has a few problems. I guess I will wait for the written report tomorrow and then see what the dealership say about it.

Hope the report is what you are hoping for, problems are only issues that want fixing which they can be.

I wouldn`t have said 33,000 miles on a 2005 van is low, that is 3,000 per year, motorhomes don`t usual do the mileage that cars do, for obvious reasons, mine is used as my car so the mileage is more since I have had her, still only 3,300 per year, but engines will go on and on if looked after.

When buying pre-owned they are not new vans, so are not like new vans, ah!! saying that they are better than most new vans, quality went down hill after 2006.

You have the bargaining power,  at this time of year. so

We had a new gasket on our exhaust last year, it was quiet for about 6 months, whistle now back. our 2006 had 11000 miles when we bought it 2 years ago, it now has 19,000. It has had new tyres last year (9 years old) and a cam belt this year (10 years).

Mileage is low for the clutch to be gone. Perhaps it does only need adjustment. 

If it is worn, that could be caused by previous owner riding the clutch a lot, or lots of reversing up hill - onto his drive?? Not really much to worry about once sorted. 

The base vehicles are built to take White Van Man abuse day in day out over hundreds of thousands of miles.

I notice that you are in London. If this van is diesel, is it LEZ compliant?
I remember an RTMR member who lived in London and had to sell his van because he couldn't afford to take it off his drive due to the LEZ charges.

Frank

Hi Frank, good point - yes I'd thought of that, but I am planning to keep the van in Scotland as I fly up every weekend to go walking in the hills. The dealership does also offer storage if I change my mind and want to keep it nearer by. I would take them up on that option (if I go ahead) for the first couple of months in case any extra issues arise. To be honest, I don't think I could parallel park it in my narrow street!

The fact the gear changes were a bit stiff and clutch worn out would worry me.

There are tons of vans out there and personally I think that price is top end for a Symbol. There's a late 2006 on ebay currently (delaer advert) for the same price.

You say it's mint inside which is good so I'm not saying don't buy it, but with those issues I'd want them sorting and also a fair bit knocked off, especially knowing it's had crash damage.

boxerman wrote:I notice that you are in London. If this van is diesel, is it LEZ compliant?
I remember an RTMR member who lived in London and had to sell his van because he couldn't afford to take it off his drive due to the LEZ charges.

Frank

I almost bought a Toyota but had to abandon it once I had seen the LEZ charges. I actually live on one of the non LEZ routes in to London but parking is difficult around here so may have had to park in a side street which was itself in the LEZ so a lucky escape there.

I have learned a trick from watching sit-coms. Flip a coin. Once you see the result you instinctively know if it came down the right way.   (although probably not the best method for chosing a high cost item.)

Thanks for the further advice. The dealer called and wants a second opinion on the clutch. I said that is fine but I'm not going to buy it unless it is replaced. I followed it up with an email with all the points that are of concern. I am definitely now erring towards asking for my deposit back and continuing to look, although I don't want to pay for too many RAC inspections!

Update: dealer agreed to replace the clutch and fix the other issues and has now offered a 6 month warranty, so it looks like I'm buying it again :)

My dealer offered only a 3 month warranty but it was a total warranty and his own, not an insurance backed warranty. However as we purchased in October, he knew we wouldn't get that much use out of it in the next three months so he increased it to 6 months. I was going to suggest you asked the dealer for the same but looks like he's done just that. Seems a fair dealer so far. Don't know if you want to name them but it's good to know about the good guys.

boxerman wrote:I notice that you are in London. If this van is diesel, is it LEZ compliant?
I remember an RTMR member who lived in London and had to sell his van because he couldn't afford to take it off his drive due to the LEZ charges.

Frank

My Symbol is a 2002 and is LEZ compliant,,,,,Sounds a high price for year, . Bought mine in april this year,,28000 miles, two owners and immaculate £15000,,Great vans but not many around for sale..BUSBY65.

Puddle in the foot-well would worry me 

Hi Paul, the dealer is Southern Motorhomes and yes, they seem very fair so far. They have agreed to fix everything, upped the warranty to 6 months (and it is their own with no exclusions). They seem to have great reviews on the internet with people saying they've had no issues with the customer service. Are you familiar with this dealer?

Nain - yes I do need to find out what that was. Been told it is now fixed. Assume small leak from washers? There was no watermark on the carpet so it looked like it was a very new leak. Doesn't appear to have affected electrics or anything as RAC man didn't pick up any faults.

Busby - I might be paying a bit much. Was hoping to pay more like £21,995 but I've been looking for a Symbol or Duetto for about a year and this was the first one I actually wanted to buy, so I'm going to try not to think about the money and just hope it is worth it. I plan to get a lot of use out of it as I tend to spend my whole winter up in Scotland mountaineering.

Rum truffle wrote:I plan to get a lot of use out of it as I tend to spend my whole winter up in Scotland mountaineering.

I'm going to wash my mouth out with carbolic (several times!) after posting this, but might you be better looking for a continental van which is far better insulated, with double floors to prevent the pipework freezing etc.?

A 2005 van will not have the latest Truma 4 or 6 heater, which resembles a jet engine when you put it on dual fuel and boost. You could almost do the breakfast toast by the hot air outlet!! I'm not sure you would be cosy in a Symbol of that vintage up in the sub-Arctic!

(BTW don't be conned by the claims for the latest Grade 3 Insulation. The tests they have to do tell you far more about the power of the heater than the efficiency of the insulation. Read up on the spec - it's quite revealing.)

Just a thought.

Rum truffle wrote:Hi Paul, the dealer is Southern Motorhomes and yes, they seem very fair so far. They have agreed to fix everything, upped the warranty to 6 months (and it is their own with no exclusions). They seem to have great reviews on the internet with people saying they've had no issues with the customer service. Are you familiar with this dealer?

Not familiar with them, but just be aware when searching for reviews that there are two dealers known by the initials SMC, this one and the other (an AS dealer) is in Newark.