Duetto Mk5 Fuel pump problem....in Belgium

I'm at the end of my tether here on an abortive trip.

Engine management light came on just as i was about to set off from Belgium for Germany. Turned back and called breakdown out. Long story short, it's got two fault codes showing to the fuel pump. Van is driveable but only in "Limp Mode". Breakdown refuse to let me drive van and want me back in the UK....with the van to follow!  I ask why i can't go with the breakdown truck and my van....and they can't give me a logical explanation! 

So i'm resigned to having to return to UK and abort further travel plans. Does anyone know a good dealer/price for service exchange fuel pumps in the Midlands area? Or a straight replacement for brand new if better.

My van is a 2000 reg mk5 Ford Transit 2.5 Tdi.

A Bosch Agent here in Belgium has quoted "around" 1000 euro......but would take about 4 days and the breakdown won't cover me for accommodation.

Contacted my MOT garage and they told me it "could" cost up to £6-700.

Any help appreciated.

Do you know what the fault codes are? From what I can recall, the Bosch pumps seldom give any trouble - mine certainly didn't in the 10 years that I owned it.

Has the fuel filter been replaced recently? If not (and in the absence of actual fault codes) I'd be tempted to do that first - IIRC it shouldn't cost more than a tenner and is easy to do (but beware if you've not done it before that it is also fairly easy to put the new one in wrong!).

Europarts, branches all over UK


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and these guys in Derbyshire do reconditioned pumps..

Swadlincote Diesel F.I.S Ltd
[url=javascript:;][/url] [url=javascript:;]Contact details[/url]
Unit 1 Ryder Close
Cadley Hill Industrial Estate
Swadlincote
Derbyshire
DE11 9EU
United Kingdom

Hi there,

First of all let me offer you my deepest sympathy for being in such a position.  It must be terrible.  

I can't help on the "What may be wrong?" question because "Petal" is years older and (as far as I am aware) has no modern gadgetry fitted; but I too would start with the water-in-fuel-trap and the fuel filter as the first suspects!

Another couple of thoughts are "Why waste a holiday and spend good money coming home when whatever is wrong with a Ford Transit can be repaired in Belgium where there are many Ford Dealers?"

My first port of call would literally by the nearest canal port to where you are.  The reasons?

1.  The Capitan de Port will speak excellent English.

2.  He/she will be used to helping UK tourists (albeit boat owners) when they have a mechanical problem.

3.  He/she will probably not have any financial links to a local garage but may very well know of one that can provide a decent service.

I really wouldn't want to leave "Petal" in the hands of strangers and I would absolutely hate giving up on a holiday if I could get everything sorted locally in a couple of days; even if it cost a few quid more.

Hope this helps. 

Best regards,

Hi What Ian says make sense. If it was me i would forgo the return trip.
Find the nearest dealer and drive in limp mode.
It may be cheaper than the UK. It may not be that expensive pump as well.
You still have your holiday .

Micky

Hi
   I do not know what size engine you have in your Duetto but the pumps are different I had a 2004 Transit 85bhp and the key is programmed as part of the pump ours failed on holiday and we limped home engine knocked a bit and had little power on hills but otherwise ran OK ,do not try and get the pump repaired or get a reconditioned one Go to a Bosch main agent and get a new one It takes about 2 1/2 hrs to fit I waited on site when mine was fitted they wanted to charge 4hrs fitting time but we renegotiated I think the final bill was about £1000,the previous owner had a recon pump fitted about 15months earlier  which was a waste of time and money
   regards Alan

A quick update on this as i have a very strange internet connection and is limited.

Fault codes are 1176 (injector) and 185 (Temp sensor). What took a Ford main agent in Dunkerque all afternoon to find, the Bosch guy found in less than 5 minutes via computer. His quote is 1000 euro.

Full service was done on van before leaving UK so had fuel, air, and oil filters all replaced with new. Even brake fluid replaced with new as existing was old.

Engine is 2.5TDi and he told me the pump is the original, so once fixed, should be good for another 15 years (i doubt i will be touring at that age!).

Main problems have been with the breakdown service (AA believe it or not) which comes with my van insurance. They have been staggeringly incompetent and indecisive not seeming to know quite what to do. I've given them the name, address and phone number of the Bosch Garage/Agent and it's only a very small town so suspect he will be the only one there.

Because the engine is in "Limp Mode", the breakdown said they will not cover if i drive it anywhere. So i told them they would need to send a flat bed truck to take it the 15 mile to the Bosch agent. They didn't seem to like that, but i reminded them it is they who told me it must not be driven until repaired.

Eventually i contacted my insurance company today (Scenic) to ask if they can get any sense from the AA breakdown, so am now hoping by tomorrow latest i will have some conclusion to this ludicrous muck up! Either way it's going to be an expensive trip!

So sorry to hear about your predicament, and sorry I can't suggest anything but our thoughts are with you, as we have only just come back from travelling in Europe and we had to have a couple of sensors replaced in the UK, on a 12 month old Peugeot Broadway just before we left on our hols. Our fingers were crossed all through our 4 weeks away. Good luck, hope you get it sorted and manage to salvage some of your holiday. Pete

Thanks to all responded. It's going form bad to worse! 

AA Breakdown contacted me today to inform the Bosch Garage could not take the job on until 22nd July!! So now they are searching around for anyone else who might be able to fix it here. If not, then it looks like a repatriation job back to UK but as i told the AA i'm reluctant to leave the van here for them to ship back "as and when". Though obviously everything is well insured, it's just not worth the risk of leaving a van unattended even though i am on a Campsite.

I'm just surprised the B/down are finding it such a problem to sort out! I've been stuck on this site now for the past eight nights and am getting pretty fed up!

I know more about the costs now ant told the B/down whoever they find, IF they find someone, the price must be comparable to what it will cost me in UK otherwise it doesn't make sense.

AA contacted me today saying they couldn't find another Garage to do the job....anywhere in Belgium.  So they are repatriating van and myself back to UK and home on 7th July. Ferry is booked so that's it now.

To be honest i don't think they tried very hard as i find it difficult to believe that nobody here could do the work. In Germany it would be done the same day (most Mk5 spares now come from Germany....even a pair of Ford mudflaps i ordered from my local Ford Garage came from Germany!).

Looks like it's going to be an expensive job to sort but at least my local Garage are already aware of it and can sort it.

Just arrived back home after a very long day.....not helped by the French breakdown truck turning up 90 minutes late which meant i missed my scheduled 1400hr ferry and had to go on the 1600hr.

BUT......on reaching UK and being picked up by the AA Breakdown at Dover Port, i got to learn exactly why i've had all this crazy indecisiveness over what should be done over my breakdown.

The "AA" in Europe is a separate entirety and based in Lyon. Though all operatives speak excellent english, the British AA breakdown driver told me Lyon are notorious for "screwing things up" (his phrase was a bit stronger!). So this is worth noting if your breakdown cover is with AA. In UK.....fine. Outside of UK......better look for an alternative!

Only thing left now is to get this fault sorted.

An update on this problem.

My van has been at the Garage for the last five days and the problem is with the electronics in the fuel pump. The mechanics of it are fine. However the Lucas Epic pump is no longer available or parts for it either. Delphi make an exchange pump but the Diesel centre which the Garage use to have pumps tested told them "they are rubbish".....and they sell them! Apparently even worse than the electrics in the Lucas pump. 

However all is not lost. They know of someone locally who has converted Bosch pumps using parts from a Peugeot ( ) and yes it does work with the TDi engine. As yet they are still waiting to get hold of his phone number and will call me as soon as they have made contact with this guy.

The Garage i use is only about 10 miles from where i live but driving back in Limp Mode was pretty horrendous as there are a couple of sharp inclines i couldn't avoid and there was probably more 'puff' in an 850cc engine!

WOW!!  

Sorry to hear about your problems and I have a "There but for the grace of God go I." attitude as "Petal" is a Mk5!

Hope it gets sorted soon.  i.e. before the end of summer! 

Best regards,

Hi,
Fitting the Bosch pump involves changing not just the pump, but throttle pedal as well (it uses a cable, not the electrical impulse from the Lucas Epic system). The Bosch pump also needs a bit of tweeking to get best performance, it is noisier, and will make black smoke, unlike the Epic pump. The jury is out on whether it has more power, or its effect on mpg.

This link on the transit forum may be of interest:

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MinorMatt on the forum is an expert on the Mk5 and helped me out recently with good advice when I had a problem with my Epic system.

Good luck, keep us posted

jollywalker wrote:Hi,
Fitting the Bosch pump involves changing not just the pump, but throttle pedal as well (it uses a cable, not the electrical impulse from the Lucas Epic system). The Bosch pump also needs a bit of tweeking to get best performance, it is noisier, and will make black smoke, unlike the Epic pump. The jury is out on whether it has more power, or its effect on mpg.

This link on the transit forum may be of interest:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

MinorMatt on the forum is an expert on the Mk5 and helped me out recently with good advice when I had a problem with my Epic system.

Good luck, keep us posted

Thanks Dutto.....but my experience is worth bearing in mind for Mk5 owners! 

Jollywalker.....i know, i've already posted in there on a thread and MinorMatt thinks the guy i'm after (or at least my Garage) may well be a chap on the Transit Forum so i've pm'd to ask him if it is him because the mechanic at my Garage wants to speak with him. I could spend time chasing around various places myself but the Garage i use is reputable and i'm a long term customer so will be sticking with them on this.

As for the throttle cable bit, i see that as a major PLUS!! The electronic throttle is a damn stupid idea imo. An old Mk3 i had snapped a throttle cable 15 miles away from home....on a Sunday afternoon so absolutely nowhere open! I found a length of string in the van, threaded that through and that was enough to get me back home though it did feel weird accelerating by hand!

Hi,

Sounds like you have it all covered, so wish you well.

When I bought 'Daisy' I had no idea it had the EPIC system, I thought it was all bog standard, easy to fix like your old mk3, so it came as a bit of a shock, and disappointment. I was concerned that parts are no longer readily available, especially the throttle assembly, but MinorMatt did tell me they rarely give trouble.

I would love to hear back after the work is done to see how you review the new pump etc, and changes to performance etc.

Hi,

Sounds like you have it all covered, so wish you well.

When I bought 'Daisy' I had no idea it had the EPIC system, I thought it was all bog standard, easy to fix like your old mk3, so it came as a bit of a shock, and disappointment. I was concerned that parts are no longer readily available, especially the throttle assembly, but MinorMatt did tell me they rarely give trouble.

I would love to hear back after the work is done to see how you review the new pump etc, and changes to performance etc.

jollywalker wrote:Hi,

Sounds like you have it all covered, so wish you well.

When I bought 'Daisy' I had no idea it had the EPIC system, I thought it was all bog standard, easy to fix like your old mk3, so it came as a bit of a shock, and disappointment. I was concerned that parts are no longer readily available, especially the throttle assembly, but MinorMatt did tell me they rarely give trouble.

I would love to hear back after the work is done to see how you review the new pump etc, and changes to performance etc.

Yes it's difficult to comprehend such an important part is no longer manufactured....not sure of the exact reason whether Lucas went bust or what, but it's a pretty damn crazy situation. Will report back with an update on the eventual outcome.

Hi Bulletguy,
I sent you a PM yesterday with an update on the sliding seat problem.
However, I then spotted your fuel pump tale of woe .......................which got me worrying.
My Amethyst is on a Ford Transit base described as a 190LWB (2496cc) and first registered June 2000.
No reference anywhere whether it's a Mk 1 or a Mk 5 - how does one find out ?
Anyone ????

Hi immobilejim,

You have the Mk5, otherwise known as the 'Smiley', due to its front grill.

You may also have the Lucas EPIC fuel system. The easiest way to check is to have a close look at your throttle pedal. If it has no throttle cable, but rather has wires coming from it, then it is the EPIC system. 

Unfortunately Jim, "Jollywalker" is right......you have a Mk5 and almost certainly it will have the Lucas Epic pump and crazy electronic throttle pedal.

However.....bear with me on this. There is an update Part 2 coming in due course!  

umm Glad Bertha is a mk4 then! 

Finally back up and running!! 

A Bosch pump converted to run with the TDi has been fitted. As the pump is mechanical it's got rid of the ridiculous electronics and stupid 'fly by wire' throttle so i won't be having this problem ever again!

The job isn't cheap......but it's the only option if your Lucas Epic fails. 

The Bosch pump is reconditioned, stripped down and rebuilt to work with the TDi by a local chap who has done a few of them and he worked alongside the Garage i use who did the fitting. Throttle cable used is standard Ford Mk3/4. Total bill came to £630 which also included a new cambelt. 

Still to early to report on overall performance as i've not driven any distance as yet but first impressions i feel the engine now has more "grunt". Am planning a short trip around Scotland asap so will know how the mpg performs from that.

Pleased to hear you are back 'up and running'.

The cost of the work undertaken sounds pretty good to me, and I will be very interested to hear your thoughts on how your Duetto now performs.

Have a lovely Scotland trip