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Duetto Troubles

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Post by Dave 418 Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:37 pm

shrugg I knew my trusty old Transit was potentially going to have some rust issues when I bought it but wasn't prepared for the latest shock. I had a chipped windscreen that developed into a crack that got to the stage of a new screen. I don't think it was my day because the not so nice screen fitter said he wouldn't touch it due to the age of the van (1996). The surround will be too rotten to fit the new screen. He showed me the nearside A post, yikes  there was a  raged hole about 2ft long inside the A post. I don't suppose many of us pull the seal off the widscreen before we buy a van. To add insult to the matter he said it would be better to scrap the van !!!!Duetto Troubles 554412 I thought I could just leave it until I had got a bit more use from the van but as it is a bonded screen it will fail its next MOT.
I was going to have the side repaired under the heater next year so I took the plunge and went to speak a motorhome repairers as suggested by a fellow forum user. Yes they can sort the body work out to in effect give the van a second life.
It will be very exspensive but to replace the van with some thing that we want that is Ford based. And with beds long enough for me to sleep in it will be cheaper to take the plunge and get things sorted.
Management was talking about new curtains at the end of this season so I suppose that will almost be a full refurbish by the time next season gets here. undecided
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Post by Paulmold Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:46 pm

Sorry to hear of your troubles. As you say, we look underneath for rust but don't pull back screen seals. Sounds as if it'll cost a bit but if it means you've got it for a while then hopefully money well spent.

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Post by Dutto Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:23 am

Hi there,

We bought "Petal" (a 1998 Duetto) on the basis that she ticked all the boxes and we would keep her until either we or "Petal" died of old age.

We looked at the price of a new "anything" and decided that if we could get another eight years out of her we could afford to spend well over £10,000 before we would consider that we had entered into a bad deal.

So far, after over four years, we have only spent about £3,500 on her (new timing belt, new clutch, new wheel arches and a few rust spots, annual service and MoTs) so we still think we are ahead of the game.

I have actually been out and checked the windscreen on "Petal" and as far as I can tell there is no rust to be seen; and she had a new windscreen shortly before we bought her (as indicated by the fact that there wasn't a single chip on it and now there are at least four).

It's not easy to keep spending money on something that someone else has classed as only worth scrapping, but I will bet good money that the person who said that to you was less than 30 years old; and what do they know about anything??  lol4  lol4 

Best regards,
 drinksallround

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Post by -mojo- Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:57 am

One other suggestion: try getting a quote from just an ordinary car body repair shop. They are likely to do just as good a job, but they probably won't charge you a premium just because it's a camper van.

The place that did my last A-S van gave me their guess (in passing, just as conversation) at its current value, and they guessed at around half what it was actually worth, which no doubt had an effect on how much they thought they could get away with charging.

Mine needed the panel around the heater replacing too - the panels themselves are amazingly cheap on Transits of that age!
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Post by Dave 418 Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:46 am

think_smiley_46  The first quote I got from a local body shop was £10,000. I asked him if that was a price to get rid of me because he didn't want the job. He got all flustered so I left him to think about that.
I don't want to think about what he would have done if I had said yes. shrugg
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Post by -mojo- Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:30 am

In fairness it is a complicated and difficult job to do properly, made more complex on a hi-top if it has travelled upwards to the top of the screen.

For very rough comparison, I paid £1500 just under 2 years ago to have all four wings replaced plus the offside panel that surrounds the heater (which had rusted badly on mine due to rust getting into the seams). That was labour + paint/sealants only - I supplied the panels, but IIRC they were not a lot more than £100 the lot. A very different job obviously, but gives some idea of how much work you can get done in the southeast for one and a half grand.

It certainly sounds like your local place just wanted rid of you, and in some ways you can understand it - they would much rather do insurance work any day, where they have to deal with recent cars, plus little rust and no arguments. The place I chose did quite a lot of classic cars, so they understood how to deal with rusty bits!
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Post by inspiredron Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:15 am

It is lkely to be expensive.  The A pillars are structurally part of the safety of the van and contribute significantly to body rigidity.  They MUST be structurally sound. And if there is any deformity you are likely to get repeated windscreen failures. A cheap job may not be economic in the medium term.
sorry to be pessimistic!

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Post by scovell001 Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:28 am

Hi Dave,

I know the Isle of Wight is a long way from Lincolnshire - however we have a local motorhome centre called Webbs. The guys there are vehicle restoration specialists & know the Duetto like the back of their hands. I have seen them perform some amazing miracles on vehicles including removing the whole side & replacing a coach built van. You could do 'a lot' worse than to speak/email them initially.
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Post by BobK Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:34 am

Dave  ...  any chance of posting a photo.     These things seem alarming to the layman, but to a good welder they are often no problem.   I remember from far off days, grafting in a side pillar cut from another vehicle and yours may not be as serious as that.   Don't be too disheartened about the rediculous estimates you have been given.....  as other members have said, it could just require a new piece welded in.

Don't even consider scrapping the "van"

 up!
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Post by Dave 418 Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:26 pm

I would like to know how bad things are when the screen is out so I will ask the repairers if they could E-Mail me a progress report including photos. When we bought this van we were told it had been stored in a barn on the Isle of White. We can prove this to be  true from  receipts for work done and storage in that time of its life. During my time in the motor trade I always vowed to ovoid buying any vehicle with rust issues, so far that has failed three times having bought two Landrovers and a Transit. Not a problem when you have the workshops to keep things running but retired with no garage can be a challenge. We are not giving in yet, I still cant find anything to better what we have without spending a lot more money.
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Post by Dave 418 Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:54 pm

so_sad  Well my van has been away for a week now, sad as it may seem I miss the old girl. The repairers have just contacted me with an update of the rust situation. They have taken the scuttle cover off and it will need a new scuttle and the nearside outer skin on the "A" pillar. I forgot to ask for photos and from what they have told me it may be a good idea I don't see the mess. uncertain
Last week we had a few days away, Ingleton and Blackpool. Lovely weather for the walks we managed but it would have been nice to have the van as a base. Some were to get changed and brew up after the walks. Also a basic function of finding toilets and having to pay a minimum of 20p if you can find change became a right pain in the Blackpool area.
Never mind the old girl is being pampered back to health, as management said it is being tucked up in a nice warm workshop at night and it is feeling a bit better already. nurse  .
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Post by scovell001 Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:14 pm

Dave, glad you're finally getting your Duetto repaired & back up to spec. I can totally sympathise with you, there's nothing worse than when there's something wrong with your van.

I know the van you bought from here on the Isle of Wight as it was advertised on a IOW specific trading site.

Sorry to here you've had a bad experience, but hopefully all will be good soon.
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Post by Dutto Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:23 am

It's may look like a lot of money today .... tap_fingers

.... but by this time next year the memories will be priceless!  allthumbz

Enjoy! 
drinksallround 
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Post by Dave 418 Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:59 pm

scratch head I have just been contacted by the repairers that are sorting my van out. They wanted to know what windscreen I wanted fitting. Clear as  original /Green Tint/ Top Tint. think_smiley_46 I thought it would look daft with a tinted screen and clear side windows so we have gone for clear as original. Top tint was **** exspensive The front end must have been bad to have taken this long to sort out. I hope the side and back doors are a bit easier because we are getting a bit twitchy about the cost so far. I miss the old girl. My sons battered old Fiesta has taken her place on the drive, that is an embarrassment that realy wants parking away from the house tap_fingers.
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Post by Dave 418 Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:25 pm

think_smiley_46 Stage one in the revamp saga with my van is complete. The screen surround is sorted, including a new scuttle and a new screen fitted. it is sprayed and and they are now starting on the side panel under the heater. So far the bill has come to just over £2000 ermm After talking to domestic management all is well and we still think it is worth going ahead with the repairs. Hopefully photos should be with the paper work so I sort out down loading to the forum.
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Post by Bulletguy Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:49 am

Ahh the good old Transit Tinworm strikes again!

Actually Dave your problem should not be too difficult to fix and is far from 'a scrap job'. First you need a competent welder to have a look at it who will also look at just how far it's gone.

The most usual area to go is the lower scuttle panel which remains constantly hidden from view by the stupid plastic 'fancy bit' that Ford fitted over it which few people ever remove........until a windscreen has to be replaced. And that's when they discover all the rotten metal which comes out with the windscreen. I had that occur on an old Transit Camper i owned previously. I managed to find a welder to let in a new piece of metal and the new screen was fitted.

Lesson learned from that experience, removing the the plastic trim panel was one of the first jobs i did when i bought my current Duetto. The trim not only hides a multitude of sins, it acts as a trough for dead leaves and various other rubbish to sit trapped in there hidden from view and over time will soon rot the scuttle.

Mine was solid on this van but i still wiped it clean, then sprayed a liberal coating of Waxoyl all over it. Problem solved!  allthumbz


**edit....just read your post above. £2k??!!  Blimey!! I better not say what the welder charged me to do my job....and that van is still on the road today!
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Post by -mojo- Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:39 am

Bulletguy wrote:The trim not only hides a multitude of sins, it acts as a trough for dead leaves and various other rubbish to sit trapped in there hidden from view and over time will soon rot the scuttle.

It can also lead to leaks at the bottom of the screen into the cab if the seal at the base of the screen is not perfect. I had this on my last Transit-based van - took the cover off and found the trough full of muck at both corners, and this was allowing water to pass the seal by capillary action. Cleared it out (and repeated the clearing every 2 years) and the problem disappeared.
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Post by Dave 418 Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:12 am

think_smiley_46 As soon as the van comes back it will be re-waxoiled including taking the scuttle trim off and brushing some on the underside of the scuttle cover. As the door pillar had gone from the inside I think I will remove the inner trim and pump some waxoil into the pillars at the top, a small hole wont show behind the trim. I have the use of a proper gun nozles and probes.
I have had to buy new ramps, they were in the trailer on the drive last time I looked.   shrugg  Strange the scrap man came round a couple of weeks ago. censored!
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Post by -mojo- Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:11 am

Dave 418 wrote:
I have had to buy new ramps, they were in the trailer on the drive last time I looked.   shrugg  Strange the scrap man came round a couple of weeks ago. censored!
You're lucky the trailer is still there then!
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Post by Dave 418 Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:08 pm

hugegrins I think the ramps went because they were on top of the rubbish including a full set of very rusty old Landrover wheels and the chuck out stuff from the re-build of the workshop. We would empty the trailer but we don't have a tow bar on any cars now. shrugg
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Post by Bulletguy Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:31 am

-mojo- wrote:
Bulletguy wrote:The trim not only hides a multitude of sins, it acts as a trough for dead leaves and various other rubbish to sit trapped in there hidden from view and over time will soon rot the scuttle.

It can also lead to leaks at the bottom of the screen into the cab if the seal at the base of the screen is not perfect. I had this on my last Transit-based van - took the cover off and found the trough full of muck at both corners, and this was allowing water to pass the seal by capillary action. Cleared it out (and repeated the clearing every 2 years) and the problem disappeared.

That plastic tat Ford stuck on was a crafty move imo. The other was the screen rubber which gives the appearance that the screen is not bonded. It's not until an owner removes that piece of plastic tat they clearly see the screen is in fact bonded as there is no rubber trim along the bottom.....no need to have any there as nobody can see it, plus Ford save a penny on each screen rubber. As you found, the scuttle plate acts as a wonderful 'trough' gathering loads of crud over time which starts doing it's job of rotting away that metal.

My van was an old one, but the screen fitters told me they regularly see the rotted scuttle problem on many newer Transits each time they come to do a screen replacement.
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Post by Dave 418 Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:22 pm

rolleyes Just to keep up the updates regarding the repairs to my van. The side panel is repaired and rear doors are being sorted. Both a bit frilly at the bottom and need painting. Most of the yuk was hidden by the stripe across the door bottom, perhaps we will leave them off this time. The next move will be tidying up the minor rust in the seams along the bottom edge of the van on the nearside.
Our van has a trim strip along the side below the water filler. Be aware that overflow from the filler will trap behind this strip and could cause rust to start out of site. As this is fitted over a joint in the panels this is bad news. 
Hopefully the van should be back at the end of the month. MOT booked for the 5th of November. I am getting lack of van symptoms now, I keep looking at the gear stacked up in our dinning room and want a van to put it in. so_sad
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Post by -mojo- Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:00 pm

Dave 418 wrote:
Our van has a trim strip along the side below the water filler. Be aware that overflow from the filler will trap behind this strip and could cause rust to start out of site. As this is fitted over a joint in the panels this is bad news. 

If it's like my previous Transit-based A-S, the trim strip doesn't cover a joint - but it is a very bad area for rust from behind, because there is a floor panel that joins from inside at that point. Mine started to rust through when the van was around 6-7 years old, and it spread horizontally - but all from inside out, not from the outside. I think the initial cause was poor sealing around the water heater, which allowed water in from outside to sit in that internal joint, which has little or no rust protection. I had the whole panel replaced, up to the upper swage line.

Incidentally, if you need to have the trim strip removed and you want to retain it, make sure that whoever does it does so carefully (preferably with a heat gun to soften the adhesive) , as they are very difficult to get hold of now...
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Post by Dave 418 Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:11 am

allthumbz At last I think we have a finish date for the repairs to our van, 3rd of November. Its been a long while coming but I have seen the way it has been repaired and feel confident we will get a few years out of the van. The repairs to the doors and the surrounding panels have been done with doors off the vehicle and the doors fitted to a stand to spray them, very professional. The only slight issue is the cost, it is getting near to £5000 shrugg . It is more than the original estimate but it was in a worse state than we thought. MOT booked for 5th of November then we can get our kit back in. allthumbz
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