VW T5 starting problems

Hi folks,
Someone else’s intermittent VW T5 starting problems (MMM August 2012 Interchange) helped us. The same symptoms had dogged our 2009 T5 Auto-Sleeper Trooper from new. It took our local VW Commercial Van Centre 3 years to accept that we had a real problem. Finally they spent time searching for the ‘irregular’ fault.
They identified a couple of poor (intermittent?) earths, which they removed, cleaned, Lithium greased and replaced firmly. 3 days of starting in their premises under lots of different situations (hot, cold, wet, early, late et al.) seem to indicate it’s fixed….
The major battery earthing points can be found by following the big earth cable from the battery negative across the battery bay and down under the battery base – on the ‘offside’. A large connector is attached down there well below the battery level (virtually inaccessible). This cable apparently then goes off down to the bell housing earth point (also inaccessible?)
A week after we got the Trooper back our starting problem seems to have disappeared.
Dick and Rosie Jordan. Cornwall.

HI interesting to note others have starting problem my local van centre say they have never heard of it,
any one know the real fix?

It depressing for anyone contemplating a T5-based camper (like I am) that a company that has been making vehicles for over half a century can't manage (it seems) to clean up their earth contact points before fitting them. That part of a vehicle is not exactly high tech!

I've heard it said that T5s have proven to be less reliable base vehicles than the T4, but in fairness they tend to have higher base spec than the T4s and pretty much everything about them is a bit more complex, so more things to go wrong.

Hi,
The depressing point was both our local VW Commercial Van Centres' not believing us that we had an intermittent starting problem. Only when we could show the second garage the MMM article would they, sort of, accept that it was not stupid old folks not knowing how to start a diesel! Expasperated, we contacted VW Customer Care, who applied pressure on the garage (which had just employed a new Service Manager). Finally they took some action, successfully.
We had an auto T4 A/S 'Sherbourne before the Trooper. The petrol/lpg T4 never missed a beat. Since the 'starting' fix the T5 has been just as good.
Only minor niggle - it had an 80ah battery from new. For the 2.5litre 130 VW manual states 100ah. We changed it in the vain hope of better starting - ah well...

Save us from spotty fitters who think they're mechanics.

We wrote also on "Why did you buy an Auto-Sleeper?", which explains the decision.

Best Regards
Dick and Rosie

Good to hear it's now behaving reliably.

I only discovered the "low-line" roof version of the Trooper when I came across one last year on a CC site - up until then I had assumed that AS were still sticking with their solid-sided roof.

I look at them with envy because they don't look like camper vans with the roof down, with such a low roof profile. The fact you can drive them pretty much anywhere a car will go is really appealing, but they are ~so~ expensive (or were when you could still get them) that I had no choice but to look elsewhere... I suspect that with the increasing trend to "downsize" and save fuel, your van will hold its value well.

don battersby wrote:HI interesting to note others have starting problem my local van centre say they have never heard of it,
any one know the real fix?

I too had the same problem from new and was treated with the same disdain as other posters by the VW main dealer, L C Charles at Crewe.
The service manageress even blatantly lied to me saying they had found loose wires behind the ignition switch. The switch has to be drilled out (the studs that hold it to steering column) but there was no sign. Finally my local "under the arches" garage used their diagnostics equipment and traced it to a faulty starter motor, all has been well for 3 months along with the previous tendency for the battery to flatten after 2 weeks of non use, this was another problem the main dealer could not solve. All we seem to have now are cream faced loons who cannot read a workshop manual and don't know how to operate diagnostics equipment. The main dealer office staff are just as bad in my experience.

I don't buy MMM every month and did not see the August 2012 issue; is it available online anywhere?

The last couple of days I have noticed that our (recently-acquired) T5 2.5TDi has an intermittent starting problem. Most times it starts fine after the glow-plug light goes out but a few times, after the plug light goes out I turn the key and all the dash lights go out and I get a click instead of a starter motor!

When the weather was really cold just before Christmas I had not started the engine for a couple of days and the battery was flat- would not even turn over. Charged it up via external charger and it has been fine until these recent events. Looking at the battery it is probably the original. Is my first port of call a new battery? The van was sold with a "Gold" third-party one-year warranty... looking at the long list of what is not included... batteries!

Cheers,
Pete.

Pete Taylor wrote:I don't buy MMM every month and did not see the August 2012 issue; is it available online anywhere?

The last couple of days I have noticed that our (recently-acquired) T5 2.5TDi has an intermittent starting problem. Most times it starts fine after the glow-plug light goes out but a few times, after the plug light goes out I turn the key and all the dash lights go out and I get a click instead of a starter motor!

When the weather was really cold just before Christmas I had not started the engine for a couple of days and the battery was flat- would not even turn over. Charged it up via external charger and it has been fine until these recent events. Looking at the battery it is probably the original. Is my first port of call a new battery? The van was sold with a "Gold" third-party one-year warranty... looking at the long list of what is not included... batteries!

Cheers,
Pete.

Could be a worn out battery/current drain alarm imobilizer type of problem..I use my van fairly regularly & the battery is in good condition.
If you keep the van at home, fit a hookup point to your house wiring so you can keep the van plugged into the mains when it's not being used. You can then keep both habitation & vehicle batteries topped up as well as chilling the fridge before trips.
Good luck.

Tim.

I took the van back to the dealer we bought it from today (Spinney), explained the problem and they did a drop-down test on the battery and, even though it was not completely knackered, immediately fitted a new battery. They had not heard of the intermittent starting issue but asked me to report back after I've run around for a bit and got the new one up to max charge. The mechanic I dealt with stressed how important it is that, if we find a solution to a problem, we let them know, so that they might be able to help others in future.

The new battery has not made any difference; still occasionally does not start .

From reading the T5 forum, it seems not to be an isolated problem and usually the fault is either dirty contacts on the trigger wire to the starter solenoid, or even on the large power wire terminal to the starter itself. However, there are also a couple of relays involved in sending the start command to the motor, I'm trying to figure out where they are.

Suppose I'll have to go out and lie in the snow to see where the starter motor is hidden!

I am waiting for a call from the local-ish VW Van centre; took my (still under warranty) Trident into them after having to call out the RAC when my van failed to start, not even turning over. Of course, it went first go when he got to me, but after trying several times, it failed again. He diagnosed a problem with the starter motor (battery was apparently OK) and after he finally got it to start, told me to take it straight to the VW Centre. They can't find anything wrong with it. Sounds like the problem Rosie and Dick had, but I have thrown away my August 2012 MMM and don't know what it suggested. Can anyone help? I don't want to be up in some remote area of Scotland with no mobile signal and a dead engine! All helpful suggestions gratefully received. Thanks

This is a bit of a worry isn't it? Since my last post ours has only failed to start once and it went next try. Since then it has been OK.
If anyone can post the "MMM solution" here it would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Pete.

this is an extract from the August 2012 issue of MMM as written by George Collins , (slight changes in wording so I don't get accused of copyright) possibly plagerism !!!
"The VW T5 in common with other diesel engines , relies on on the heat of compression to ignite the fuel. The required high temperatures is easily achieved once the engine is running but difficult to achieve when cold.
One solution is to fit electrically powered heater (glow) plugs in the combustion chamber to provide pre heating. At one time this was all they did but for some years heating has prolonged to help reduce smoke and harmful gasses.
The T5 has a separate control unit linked to the engine management system that varies the the current to the heater plugs depending on the ambient temp during start and warm up phase.

the most likely cause of the problem is that one or more of the engines five heater plugs has failed, if you have a test meter it is relatively simple to test the plugs (disconnect battery after referring to the handbook.
Disconnect each plugs electric connection using a 4 or 5mm spanner and test across the terminal to the body of the plug or cylinder head,it should show a resistance of less than 5 ohms if infinity is shown then the plug has failed

hope this helps
mike VWT4

VWT4, thanks but I think that is the solution to a different problem; the failure of one glow plug means that the engine will fire and run on the remaining cylinders. The problem here is that nothing at all happens!

Hi sorry it is of no use, I have been through the August 2012 MMM page by page and that was the only article I could find relating to T5s maybe it was a different month

mike vwt4

vwt4 wrote:Hi sorry it is of no use, I have been through the August 2012 MMM page by page and that was the only article I could find relating to T5s maybe it was a different month

mike vwt4

Mike, thanks for taking the trouble to look it up.

Cheers,
Pete.

I've got exactly this ignition problem on my 2007 T5 2.5 diesel auto.  There doesn't seem to be a certain cure but at least from this thread I know I am not alone.

Also, sometimes I find the van just suddenly crawls along and I have to stop, wait and restart and the system all works again. I've noticed this on my VW A4 auto as well sometimes.

altipueri wrote:sometimes I find the van just suddenly crawls along and I have to stop, wait and restart and the system all works again.

This is typically a symptom of a fault with the engine management, which causes it to enter "limp home mode" to reduce the chance of engine damage if you continue to drive it.

Normally the engine management system will log error messages when this happens, and reading these codes may give clues as to where the problem is. There is a very large range of potential problems, such as sensor faults, wiring problems, stuck turbo vanes, etc, etc. Without reading the error codes (which are "remembered" even after an engine stop and restart) it is almost impossible to guess what the underlying cause is.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Thanks also to the person who PM'd me - sadly I can't reply as my post count is too low - but yes a trip to the garage seems likely.

altipueri wrote:I've got exactly this ignition problem on my 2007 T5 2.5 diesel auto.  There doesn't seem to be a certain cure but at least from this thread I know I am not alone.

Also, sometimes I find the van just suddenly crawls along and I have to stop, wait and restart and the system all works again. I've noticed this on my VW A4 auto as well sometimes.

Sounds like you may have two problems- the ignition and the engine-management!

As an aside, our T5 starting problem simply went away and for at least the last year we owned it it fired first time, every time!

Agree with mojo, you need to plug into a VagCom and see what error-codes you have. This can cost (so I have read) up to £50 at VW but many indie garages have a VagCom. Beware of cheapo Chinese analysers- I bought one off e-bay to read the codes on our Polo and Audi TT, it would not work with either! Hope you get sorted.

Hi 
Have you tried the  Inchcapes Cheltenham VW Van Centre GL519NR they did us ok when we had a problem with intermittent starting. Identified it as a starter fault and sorted it out quickly.
frederic


(Mechanic also said that this intermittent starting fault could happen on any age/mileage/usage T5)

Have posted our pm so all can benefit.
Any joy with your problems yet??
frederic