Auto-Sleeper Kingham

Hi all, having owned both tourers and most recently static caravans, my wife and I are strongly considering a panel van conversion and really like the Kingham. New models with a few packages are coming in over £80k (increased considerably in the last few years) and used vans aren’t cheap. Do you consider the insulation to be effective (some previous threads cast some doubt) and is the overall build quality reflective of the price. 80k puts it into Vantage, Consort and S&L territory, albeit they don’t make a van with such a genius layout as the Kingham.
Thanks

Don't forget IH in your list of quality vans. As for AS build quality, start reading recent posts.

Paulmold wrote:Don't forget IH in your list of quality vans. As for AS build quality, start reading recent posts.

Thanks Paul and yes you’re correct re IH (although styling isn’t my cup of tea) and I have searched through previous posts. There seems to be a good many owners who simply love their vans (great to hear) and then there are others that allude to quality. The impression I get is that the layout is king for most, whilst many haven’t noticed/experienced any issues with quality or concerns over insulation. If the heaters are good, then perhaps they won’t  (apart from the cab heating issue).

Our 2019 Kingham has the perfect layout excepting just one thing, the width of the bed. It doesn’t bother us too much since we just cuddle up, but our bed at home is a super king so we do just notice the difference! It is all a compromise and I would certainly not want a wider van. We like to think we can get everywhere that an Amazon van can, and spend a lot of time down little lanes where the overall width of a pvc and the lack of bulk high up make all the difference, so we will just have to carry on snuggling up in that bed!

Otherwise FOR US the layout and practicality couldn’t be better. I rise early, the Admiral somewhat later. I put a curtain between the bed and sitting area / galley so I can sit at the front next to the kettle while SWMBO snores in a darkened bedroom.

I can’t speak for latest build quality. Ours would be unacceptable in the marine world but you just have to keep reminding yourself that in a van weight is all important. I live with it, but AS do some pretty appalling things. However, if I fitted out a van to my liking it would be too heavy.

Insulation is poor and missing in some areas but I just add bits when I find any gaps. We have been away in some pretty cold U.K. weather and my wife doesn’t complain, so the van must be warm enough.

Heating and wiring installations are poor and I have now completely removed the Sargent installations and rewired the hab electrics traditionally, with switches, and improved charging, added an inverter, upgraded the solar etc.!! In this I have been greatly aided by the fact that up to late 2019 these vans did NOT have smart alternators

Unless you are intent on a new vehicle I would strongly suggest that you look for a 2019 model ( or earlier) with a non-smart alternator. It will also not have Whale heating, which I read is poor compared to a Truma.

In terms of value for money I would not want to be building a new Kingham for £84,000 inc.taxes. You can always go better, but at 84 k I still think they are pretty reasonable value for money. But it would not cost AS much more to pay a bit more attention to quality control.

Must admit i like the consort & especially the S&L vans, still think Auto-Sleeper outshine them in terms of build quality despite recent discoveries here on the forum, what you get with Auto-Sleeper is well thought out layouts & adequate storage, they are not perfect by any means but which make is? Check out the AutoTrail V-Line group & read the horrors on there! The Kingham is a lovely van even though it’s not my choice due to layout & I’m also not keen on the glass side panels AS use for their van conversions much preferring the opening windows fitted to other converters, but if it suits you, agree prices are crazy right now, we paid 36k for our last Broadway just 3yrs old, this time around we bought a five year old Broadway costing us 60k, our V-Line that we purchased was also 60k 3yrs old yet when it was new in 2020 it was just 52k new, absolutely crazy!

We have a 2020 Kemerton XL, the build quality is fine, maybe we’re lucky but we have had a string of AS vans over many years and have never been put off the brand. Sure, things occasionally break or fall off but nothing than can’t be fixed fairly readily and we use our van a lot, typically 120 nights and 12K miles annually. 

There could always be more insulation but this van is the warmest we’ve ever had during winter use. It has the Whale 6kW space heating and now we’ve got used to its idiosyncrasies it’s fine.

Overall I would say that if you’re convinced about the layout (which is the key factor) then go for it. But based on everything I’ve read here and elsewhere, look for a 2yr old van or thereabouts, which will hopefully will have been debugged by the previous owner.

Tim

Thank you to all that replied. I will heed the “going for a 2+ year old used van’ advice and appreciate all the comments.

We've regularly used our '17 Kingham for winter snowboarding trips, so, have used it in some pretty harsh conditions, including multi day sub zero temperatures and we've never considered the standard insulation to be a problem.

As for build quality, well, that's another story. However, I'm guessing every manufacturer / converter will have their "Friday afternoon" examples.

Overall we are very pleased with our Kingham. We only use the van in 3 seasons so level of insulation is fine for us, and we have no problems with the athermic single glazed windows at the back. 

There are a small number of irritating things regarding build quality/ things that needed fixing which I anticipated when we bought the van. But I decided that I could improve things that broke/weren’t up to the job but the one thing I couldn’t do with any van is change the layout.

For us the Kingham is the ideal layout when combined with the externals of the van and driving dynamics. I’ve not had to change or fix as many things as I expected from reading “you need to change this” type posts on this and other forums; for our use, the existing solar, Sargent panel etc work fine but I accept they might not for others who have different expectations or use of their van. 

The heating system is still a disappointment as it heats the bed area much more than the cab area. And the water tank capacity is a continual frustration- but all vans have compromises and this is one we just live with. (Should the Whale heater fail I’ll look into having a different system installed…)

Anyway, as I said, overall we are very happy with the Kingham and can vouch for its tour ability having just come back from a month long 7 country European adventure!

The water tank capacity is I believe fixable, but at some cost.

So far as I can see and measure an exact duplicate of the standard tank will fit in the next chassis bay forward of the existing tank, thus doubling the capacity. The issues are:

1. The only source I can find for a duplicate tank is AS and they want fairly silly money for one. We have had a thread on this before and various suggestions for alternative suppliers were made which I followed up but the stumbling block is always that the tank has to be formed to fit around the handbrake linkage.

2. In order to fit the tank some gas system components and piping need to be moved, which is all possible but an awkward job unless you have a pit/hoist or like working on your back!

From memory, the gas system needs much less modification if there is no supply to the fridge, so perhaps any water tank expansion needs to follow the installation of a compressor fridge.

It would be wonderful if anybody actually knows who makes the AS tanks. I asked AS and they wouldn’t tell me!

AS tanks made by Amber Tanks. That's what AS told a Symbol owner , posted on FB recently.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

We are on our second Kingham and love it, there have been problems with it that I have fixed myself rather than let the dealer make a mess of it. I have increased the insulation in the doors, behind the glass on the o/s rear door (disconnected the HRW on that side) B pillars and behind the control panel and under the cab steps and anywhere else I could. The drawer runners are cheep and nasty so replaced with ball bearing runners. Upgraded the electrics with B to B charger 200AH Lithium and Victron MPPT controller and extra 100W solar panel. Removed the Whale heater and fitted the Truma under the sofa, insulated and boxed in the wheel arch leaving loads of storage under the bed. Next upgrade will be VB air suspension.

Tim

Paulmold wrote:AS tanks made by Amber Tanks. That's what AS told a Symbol owner , posted on FB recently.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Many thanks Paul, that is a new name on me so not one suggested before. I will follow up.

Think this through.

Water is 1kg/ltr.

IanH wrote:Think this through.

Water is 1kg/ltr.

Indeed - but out of the box, licence permitting, the Kingham can be up plated to 4500 (I think, maybe 4,250- without getting my V5 out I can’t recall) so how much it eats into the payload isn’t necessarily a big issue.

Ours is a Fiat auto and updated to 4000 KG, that's as far as it can go as is built on the medium chassis (without the front plastic wheel arch trims) The previous Peugeot was built on the heavy chassis, I think that would go to 4500KG but I might be wrong.

Tim

timsurf2021 wrote:Ours is a Fiat auto and updated to 4000 KG, that's as far as it can go as is built on the medium chassis (without the front plastic wheel arch trims) The previous Peugeot was built on the heavy chassis, I think that would go to 4500KG but I might be wrong.

Tim

Perhaps another advantage then of a slightly earlier model. Our 2019 Peugeot Kingham is I believe on the heavy duty minibus chassis. It came with air assist on the rear. We did not have to do any modifications to up-plate to 4,500 kgs (although I had already fitted higher load rated tyres, which may have helped.) However, when we up-plated it was only because we were going marginally over the 3500 figure with bikes, towba, extra battery etc. (and full water tank Ian!). 4000 would I think be ample for most people if indeed 3500 is not enough

So I take your point Ian but it is “optional’ weight. My wife is used to a barge carrying 4 tonnes (4000 litres) of water so she is not used to economising!

Somebody mentioned the windows. We think they are great. We did wonder about ventilation in the rear but it is not proving to be an issue. We also wondered about condensation but again no issues, although this may be in part because we mostly cook electric so no gas burning related water vapour in the air.

A bit late in the day for my response, sorry.
We've had our 2015 Kingham for nearly 9 years and on 97000 miles.
There have been some niggles over the years, fortunately minor apart from replacing the control panel last year. 
We've been up in the Alps, Atlas mountains etc in late winter and not struggled with the cold but conversely not been in really ice cold weather for any considerable period of time.
Like many of us we've mooched around campervan shows, but always come away with the belief that there isn't anything else on the market that tempts us away from this Kingham.

sylvester1954 wrote:A bit late in the day for my response, sorry.
We've had our 2015 Kingham for nearly 9 years and on 97000 miles.
There have been some niggles over the years, fortunately minor apart from replacing the control panel last year. 
We've been up in the Alps, Atlas mountains etc in late winter and not struggled with the cold but conversely not been in really ice cold weather for any considerable period of time.
Like many of us we've mooched around campervan shows, but always come away with the belief that there isn't anything else on the market that tempts us away from this Kingham.

Many thanks for your reply. Layout is probably the most important factor when thinking about a Motorhome,pvc or caravan and the Kingham definitely has a unique layout for a panel van that I think suit us down to the ground.

Rocky wrote:Tonks, as others have alluded, every make has its ups and downs, but generally speaking AS have been pretty good.  I have seen many criticisms of Hymers, Burstners etc, makes where you think the build quality would be excellent - but not always so.  

In terms of insulation, one has to be realistic.  It's a van.  It's never going to have the same insulation qualities as a coach built or A Class - beefing it up would reduce severely the internal space, and no manufacturer wants to do that.  There are some things you can do yourself to help and there are threads on here about self-help with insulation that make a considerable difference - see Glyne Lock's thread on Kemmerton XL improvements, much of which you can do to any of the van conversions, and I have improved the insulation on my WXL.

Nevertheless, all this does not stop 4 seasons use of the van, and we have been away in 0 temperatures and been toasty warm.  Go for it!

Agree 100% and thank you. Saving up for purchase hopefully in the new year.

Warm as toast on days like this  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Epic picture Kingham!

Looks as if you even have a couple of skylights open!

The Bargee wrote:Looks as if you even have a couple of skylights open!

If I’d been away by myself they likely would be open, but my wife was on that trip with me, so it’s unlikely. 

I think you’re seeing the roof mounted ends of my kayak rack, as the kayaks were down the offside of the van out of the wind.