Gas smell outside of van
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Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:14 pm
I can smell gas outside of the Warwick. I last filled the tank about six weeks ago and on contacting the local mobile engineer I have been told that maybe the gas in the tank has now expanded due to me filling when it was cold outside and now we have warmer weather excess gas may be escaping.
He advised that I burn some gas off, so water is on, heating is on as I have not used any gas since last filling.
All service places seem to be very busy and we are going away 2nd week of May, well maybe.
Anyone had similar problems or any advice.
All fittings, pipe, regulator are original and now 7 years old.
Richard
He advised that I burn some gas off, so water is on, heating is on as I have not used any gas since last filling.
All service places seem to be very busy and we are going away 2nd week of May, well maybe.
Anyone had similar problems or any advice.
All fittings, pipe, regulator are original and now 7 years old.
Richard
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Toffee Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:25 pm
That doesn’t sound right as the gas system as far as I am aware should not allow anything to escape. If you have any kind of gas escaping a competent gas engineer will be able to test the system to verify this and find it.
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Peatlander 2 Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:29 pm
You could try the old faithful, put a dob of soapy water on all joints, and look for bubbles.
Needs checking either way.
Needs checking either way.
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by IanH Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:18 pm
May I respectfully suggest that if one smells gas that lighting literally anything is not a good idea......
Find the source, fix it, have it checked by a gas professional then, ond only then, use it....
Find the source, fix it, have it checked by a gas professional then, ond only then, use it....
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Peatlander 2 Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:39 pm
Totally agree.IanH wrote:May I respectfully suggest that if one smells gas that lighting literally anything is not a good idea......
Find the source, fix it, have it checked by a gas professional then, ond only then, use it....
There was a guy in the town where I lived as a kid, went looking for a gas leak in his caravan with a lighter. Last thing he ever did.
(He was C.I.D. Need I say more?)
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by IanH Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:15 pm
Isn't the point of the max fill of 80% controlled by a float valve, to allow the gas to expand safely anyway?
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:29 pm
That's what I thought. But both Motorhome engineers I asked said that if you fill to max when cold outside, when you get hot weather the gas expands. This will leak out of the regulator.IanH wrote:Isn't the point of the max fill of 80% controlled by a float valve, to allow the gas to expand safely anyway?
I thought that was the point of the 80% but I am not a approved or any thing to do with gas.
Richard
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by glyne lock Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:52 pm
[quote="rgermain"]
That's what I thought. But both Motorhome engineers I asked said that if you fill to max when cold outside, when you get hot weather the gas expands. This will leak out of the regulator.
NO NO NO clearly not a engineer with the papers to work on gas .HEALTH/SAFTY WOULD CLOSE THEM DOWN
I thought that was the point of the 80% but I am not a approved or any thing to do with gas.
WHEN YOU FILL WITH LIQUID IF YOU PUT IN 100% THE LIQUID WOULD GO UP THE PIPES AND IS THE REASON FOR THE 20% AREA
IF YOU HAVE A LEAK IT NEEDS SORTING FOR EVERYBODIES SAFETY
That's what I thought. But both Motorhome engineers I asked said that if you fill to max when cold outside, when you get hot weather the gas expands. This will leak out of the regulator.
NO NO NO clearly not a engineer with the papers to work on gas .HEALTH/SAFTY WOULD CLOSE THEM DOWN
I thought that was the point of the 80% but I am not a approved or any thing to do with gas.
WHEN YOU FILL WITH LIQUID IF YOU PUT IN 100% THE LIQUID WOULD GO UP THE PIPES AND IS THE REASON FOR THE 20% AREA
IF YOU HAVE A LEAK IT NEEDS SORTING FOR EVERYBODIES SAFETY
Last edited by glyne lock on Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Paulmold Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:56 pm
From Gasit website...rgermain wrote:
That's what I thought. But both Motorhome engineers I asked said that if you fill to max when cold outside, when you get hot weather the gas expands. This will leak out of the regulator.
I thought that was the point of the 80% but I am not a approved or any thing to do with gas.
Richard
All GAS IT refillable gas bottles, and our GAS IT gas tanks for that matter, are fitted with automatic 80% shut off valves which will limit the liquid LPG in a gas bottle / cylinder to approx 80% ( see variations possible above ) of the overall internal capacity of the bottle. All exchange gas companies also do this to to allow for the safe expansion of the LPG due to temperature changes in the weather.
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:01 pm
Thanks all.
Now one question, what makes the supply only fill to 80%? Could the shut off, float or whatever it is be faulty, or is it a pressure thing that shuts off the supply pump.
Just thinking, maybe the supply was faulty.
When you buy bottle gas, I assume it's the supply that cuts off, nothing inside the bottle is there.
Any ideas?
Richard
Now one question, what makes the supply only fill to 80%? Could the shut off, float or whatever it is be faulty, or is it a pressure thing that shuts off the supply pump.
Just thinking, maybe the supply was faulty.
When you buy bottle gas, I assume it's the supply that cuts off, nothing inside the bottle is there.
Any ideas?
Richard
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:33 pm
What do you mean NO NO NO are you a gas engineer, I spoke to 2 VERY large Motorhome service/ dealers in Portsmouth, not a one man show.glyne lock wrote:
Richard
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Paulmold Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:59 pm
It's a float that shuts off the supply.rgermain wrote:Thanks all.
Now one question, what makes the supply only fill to 80%? Could the shut off, float or whatever it is be faulty, or is it a pressure thing that shuts off the supply pump.
Just thinking, maybe the supply was faulty.
When you buy bottle gas, I assume it's the supply that cuts off, nothing inside the bottle is there.
Any ideas?
Richard
Is all explained here......
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by bobash Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:26 pm
I had the same problem. There are 2 pressure relief valves in the filling pipe. One at the filling end and one at the tank end. If the smell disappears a couple of days after filling it could be the one at the filling end. If it doesn't disappear it could be both valves. This was my case.
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by glyne lock Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:57 pm
To do the work I have done and be legal I have got the skills and legal papers thanksrgermain wrote:
What do you mean NO NO NO are you a gas engineer, I spoke to 2 VERY large Motorhome service/ dealers in Portsmouth, not a one man show.
Richard
A gas leak is a major safety and any skilled person would understand the first thing that should have been done
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:17 pm
That is why I phoned the 2 main motorhome agents in the Portsmouth area.glyne lock wrote:
To do the work I have done and be legal I have got the skills and legal papers thanks
A gas leak is a major safety and any skilled person would understand the first thing that should have been done
Richard
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:33 pm
Thank you, best answer todatebobash wrote:I had the same problem. There are 2 pressure relief valves in the filling pipe. One at the filling end and one at the tank end. If the smell disappears a couple of days after filling it could be the one at the filling end. If it doesn't disappear it could be both valves. This was my case.
What you say is the same as I was told by Main motorhome service depts. near me in Portsmouth and the local mobile engineer I have used for years, even when I had the caravan, he mentioned same as you straight away.
Cheers
Richard
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:34 pm
Sorry I thought you drove a big breakdown truck, didn't know you were an expert motorhome chapglyne lock wrote:
To do the work I have done and be legal I have got the skills and legal papers thanks
A gas leak is a major safety and any skilled person would understand the first thing that should have been done
Richard
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:13 pm
Useful reading for those with refillable LPG tanks
Fixed LPG tanks – Gastore and others
We have recently been made aware of a couple of incidents, from customers, who have fixed LPG tanks fitted to their vehicles.
These have manifested themselves as an unexplained release of gas from the tank, which is clearly very disconcerting for those around.
Investigation plus advice from valve manufacturers has shown that the pressure relief valve on the tank, which is set at 27Bar, has been activated. The valve is a safety device to stop internal pressures become dangerously high. Pressure that under normal operation would only be seen in a ‘vehicle fire’ situation and so then enabling a controlled release of the gas.
Further investigation has also determined these valves activating in this manor will almost certainly have been caused by overfilling of the tank.
The tank is designed to cut off when being refilled at 80% and so leaving a space to enable expansion and vaporisation to take place.
When filling the tank, the pump will automatically cut off when the 80% is reached. This applies to ALL refillable LPG tanks and in line with current regulations. R67.01, EN1949:2000 etc.
It is very important that when your filling an LPG tank to respect the pump when it cuts off, no ‘topping up’ ‘Squeezing a little more in’ or ‘aiming at the next round number’ as we all do with our diesel and petrol tanks.
Thank you for reading this.
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16Jul
Fixed LPG tanks – Gastore and others
We have recently been made aware of a couple of incidents, from customers, who have fixed LPG tanks fitted to their vehicles.
These have manifested themselves as an unexplained release of gas from the tank, which is clearly very disconcerting for those around.
Investigation plus advice from valve manufacturers has shown that the pressure relief valve on the tank, which is set at 27Bar, has been activated. The valve is a safety device to stop internal pressures become dangerously high. Pressure that under normal operation would only be seen in a ‘vehicle fire’ situation and so then enabling a controlled release of the gas.
Further investigation has also determined these valves activating in this manor will almost certainly have been caused by overfilling of the tank.
The tank is designed to cut off when being refilled at 80% and so leaving a space to enable expansion and vaporisation to take place.
When filling the tank, the pump will automatically cut off when the 80% is reached. This applies to ALL refillable LPG tanks and in line with current regulations. R67.01, EN1949:2000 etc.
It is very important that when your filling an LPG tank to respect the pump when it cuts off, no ‘topping up’ ‘Squeezing a little more in’ or ‘aiming at the next round number’ as we all do with our diesel and petrol tanks.
Thank you for reading this.
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Paulmold Thu Apr 06, 2023 8:35 pm
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Kemerton-bath Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:34 pm
An enlightening piece from rgermain regarding the pressure relief valve on the tank, thank you Richard.
Is it really possible to “squeeze” a bit more LPG into the tank? My experience has been that once the pump stops, it’s not possible to restart it by pressing the button again. That said, we’re convinced our tank was overfilled on one occasion near Wolverhampton at a manned pump. Hard to be sure and we weren’t aware of any gas smell but the amount we took onboard seemed far higher than we expected to take, based on our experience of reading our gauge.
We often fill up in the West Midlands as there are numerous outlets selling LPG at a good price, some of which are not self service. I get the impression there are a lot of taxis that run on auto gas in that region.
Tim
Is it really possible to “squeeze” a bit more LPG into the tank? My experience has been that once the pump stops, it’s not possible to restart it by pressing the button again. That said, we’re convinced our tank was overfilled on one occasion near Wolverhampton at a manned pump. Hard to be sure and we weren’t aware of any gas smell but the amount we took onboard seemed far higher than we expected to take, based on our experience of reading our gauge.
We often fill up in the West Midlands as there are numerous outlets selling LPG at a good price, some of which are not self service. I get the impression there are a lot of taxis that run on auto gas in that region.
Tim
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Paulmold Thu Apr 06, 2023 9:49 pm
If you read my link in preceding post you'll see that it is possible to squeeze a bit more if the pump is faulty and doesn't completely stop when full.Kemerton-bath wrote:An enlightening piece from rgermain regarding the pressure relief valve on the tank, thank you Richard.
Is it really possible to “squeeze” a bit more LPG into the tank? My experience has been that once the pump stops, it’s not possible to restart it by pressing the button again. That said, we’re convinced our tank was overfilled on one occasion near Wolverhampton at a manned pump. Hard to be sure and we weren’t aware of any gas smell but the amount we took onboard seemed far higher than we expected to take, based on our experience of reading our gauge.
We often fill up in the West Midlands as there are numerous outlets selling LPG at a good price, some of which are not self service. I get the impression there are a lot of taxis that run on auto gas in that region.
Tim
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Kemerton-bath Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:05 pm
Ah, OK Paul. Thanks. I knew I should have read your link first!
Tim
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:02 am
Update on the gas smell.
On doing the soapy water test, I have a slight bubble from the end of the tank where it looks like the end was joined to the main tank by welding.
So new tank will have to be got from some where
Looks like trip to France is off in 6 weeks.
Richard
On doing the soapy water test, I have a slight bubble from the end of the tank where it looks like the end was joined to the main tank by welding.
So new tank will have to be got from some where
Looks like trip to France is off in 6 weeks.
Richard
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by rgermain Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:14 am
Another update.
Just spoke to my usual mobile engineer, he can fit a new tank ok, but he cannot release the old gas in the tank.
Anyone had a tank replaced and if so where did you get it done. Not bothered about the cost, just need our holiday
Here's hoping Richard
Just spoke to my usual mobile engineer, he can fit a new tank ok, but he cannot release the old gas in the tank.
Anyone had a tank replaced and if so where did you get it done. Not bothered about the cost, just need our holiday
Here's hoping Richard
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Re: Gas smell outside of van
by Paulmold Fri Apr 07, 2023 11:15 am
Gasit installer down your way...rgermain wrote:Update on the gas smell.
On doing the soapy water test, I have a slight bubble from the end of the tank where it looks like the end was joined to the main tank by welding.
So new tank will have to be got from some where
Looks like trip to France is off in 6 weeks.
Richard
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