MORE BOURTON ADVICE

Hi (to all again)

Back in May I was posting as a 'Bourton Wanabee' seeking considerable advice/guidance which was given and gratefully received.

At the time my wife and I were, without realising concentrating on the negatives and not balancing them against the positives, to cut a long story short Wednesday last Sue just stated off the cuff that despite our extensive research she did not feel we would get a a more suitable (to us) M.H. than the Bourton. A Eureka moment from my point of view! 

One phone call later to our local Marquis dealership (not my favourite but needs must) revealed that there was one due to arrive and today having had a test drive I put a reservation on one which is due to arrive in December, Happy days. 

Getting to the point I have three question;-

1.  When fitted with bikes mounted do they obscure the rear lights (2022 model)?

2.  On the test drive I found the ride very soft/floaty my car is exactly the opposite so I feel this may have exagerated it somewhat. Does one get used to this and adapt their driving style where needs be? In the forums I see a fair number of discussions about fitting air suspension some pronouncing good results others not so.

3.  Self levelling,  again well discussed in the forums, I would be interested in knowing which is the lightest system, if anyone has this information as I am very payload.
 conscious. Also of any personal experience of anyone that actually has it fitted to a Bourtons.

Thanks in anticipation.

S&R

rgr7232 wrote:Hi (to all again)

Back in May I was posting as a 'Bourton Wanabee' seeking considerable advice/guidance which was given and gratefully received.

At the time my wife and I were, without realising concentrating on the negatives and not balancing them against the positives, to cut a long story short Wednesday last Sue just stated off the cuff that despite our extensive research she did not feel we would get a a more suitable (to us) M.H. than the Bourton. A Eureka moment from my point of view! 

One phone call later to our local Marquis dealership (not my favourite but needs must) revealed that there was one due to arrive and today having had a test drive I put a reservation on one which is due to arrive in December, Happy days. 

Getting to the point I have three question;-

1.  When fitted with bikes mounted do they obscure the rear lights (2022 model)?

2.  On the test drive I found the ride very soft/floaty my car is exactly the opposite so I feel this may have exagerated it somewhat. Does one get used to this and adapt their driving style where needs be? In the forums I see a fair number of discussions about fitting air suspension some pronouncing good results others not so.

3.  Self levelling,  again well discussed in the forums, I would be interested in knowing which is the lightest system, if anyone has this information as I am very payload.
 conscious. Also of any personal experience of anyone that actually has it fitted to a Bourtons.

Thanks in anticipation.

S&R

This is very good news.  I'm sure you will not be disappointed.  I can only comment on your first question.  My very first thread/post in June 2019 (I wish I could find it) was about this.  In short you should fit a lighting board to your bike rack when bikes are being carried especially if a bike cover is used.  The regulations require the rear lights to be be seem from each side of the van.  A bike will obscure the lights to varying degrees when viewed from the side.  It must also be possible to view the rear number plate from above.  A bike is likely to prevent this. Lighting boards are inexpensive and can be attached easily and safely to the rack and/or bike with a couple of bungees.  When your motorhome comes it will have something called a VLM5 unit/junction box.  Mine is located under the cooker at the back of the van.  It is relatively easy to connect the lighting board to the VLM5.  How this is done is covered in the Forum.

Found it:

https://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t29673-bike-rack?highlight=bike+rack

Caraman wrote:Found it:

https://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t29673-bike-rack?highlight=bike+rack

Hi 
Thanks Caraman
I see from the picture that your (Neuvo) has an end kitchen as does the Broughton so I'm hoping The VLM5 will be in the same place, have been to Sargents website between your posts and saw a picture of the VLM5 there and will now know what I'm looking for and a location to start at, probably actually better to get the dealer to actually do the work.

I believed that the A/S motorhomes did have this facility wired in (having read loads of posts) but the dealer sales executive said he didn't know about it and that anyway lighting boards wouldn't be necessary.

Bad advice!

Thanks again very much for your efforts.

Ray

Just been looking at the latest handbook: 

https://orbit.brightbox.com/v1/acc-jqzwj/Auto-Sleepers/handbooks/handbook_documents/000/000/094/original/AS_Coachbuilt_2021_Handbook.pdf?1624979973

I see the Bourton has a healthy rear axle loading margin of 622 kg (my Nuevo is only 394 kg) which would allow a tow bar to be fitted with a tow ball mounted bike rack with integrated lighting board.  This would be by far the most expensive option but worth considering if heavy e-bikes are to be carried.  

If no tow bar is fitted there is no bracket to mount a 12N or 13 pin socket.  The options are make a bracket and attach it somehow to the bike rack or somewhere beneath the van noting that this will make in inaccessible, or, use a flying socket.  I went down the flying 12N socket route but have ended up with a 13 pin socket using pins 1 to 7 only with a bracket secured with cable ties to the bike rack.  There should be a recognised way of doing it but there isn't.

When I considered my dealer doing it, they were going to use a very expensive 13 wire harness from Sargent that plugged into the VLM5 with a considerable amount of spare cable coiled up in the pan locker and a socket mounted on the underside of the floor which I would have struggled to reach.  This is why I ended up doing it myself.

Hi Caraman

Thanks for your detailed input it is appreciated, this is the third time I have tried to respond to it to say thanks (they have not appeared on the thread)!.

I have discounted the towbar option on weight therefore and consequent loss of payload which is narrow enough on 3500kg M/Hs to which I'm restricted and storage problems when its not in use.

My bikes are just standard road types which I have always carried on the roof of the car when towing, don't find it quite so easy to get them up there these days though. Have you found that even without a cover you need to use the light board?

The flying lead is, I feel like you, the best route for me. I have discussed this with my dealer sales exec. (he of little knowledge) and pointed out the points you made, he is going to relay this info. to his technician, wish he'd let me speak to him! I hope to get them to get them to terminate it in a 12n socket to fit that which is on a board I currently have rather than the 13s but in the real world either will do. In actual fact I think the real world the 13 pinsocket is probably as it locks to together with twist unlike 12n and 12s ones.

Finaly whilst in full flow could I ask you whether you find the fridge sufficient sizewise they have been a topic of converstaion on other threads. I ask you because I would imagine that your M/H has and end kitchen the same as the Broughton and would therefore imagine they are the same.

Ray

I agree - don't go for the more expensive and heavier tow bar option unless you can see real benefit from it.  On the vehicle payload issue, the latest Nuevo is about 580 kg and the Bourton 457 kg.  On the face of it the Nuevo wins but it doesn't as in the real world its rear axle maximum payload of 394 kg is used up long before its vehicle payload.  Your much higher rear axle payload overcomes this so much more if not all of the vehicle payload is useable.  The high rear axle mass also lends itself to RWD and should give you better traction.

Before changing to a 13 pin socket I got through 2 flying 12N sockets in as many years.  The first corroded badly because of its location near the waste water drain behind the off-side rear mudflap and because I didn't grease the screw connections in the socket and/or fill the void with sealant.  The second which was hung off the bike rack with cable ties failed when its spring loaded cover failed.  The 13 pin socket (and plug) I have recently replaced it with is much better quality.

I have the lighting board primarily for when I use the bike cover but as I have it I use it all the time.  Even without the cover, the bikes obscure the lights and number plate to some extent.  It's a personal thing but I would rather be on the safe side of the law.

The Nuevo's fridge is of a similar size to the fridges we had in our last 3 caravans which supported a family of 4 rather than just the two of us.  What is different is that we shop less often with the motorhome which means we fully pack the fridge and yes there are times we wish it was larger but we manage and could probably make better use of the freezing compartment.

Just a sixpence worth on the subject of bike racks. When we bought our NuevoES we explained to the dealer that we wanted a bike rack, and that we wanted it mounted as low as possible for ease of loading. He suggested - and we agreed - to have the Fiamma lifting rack fitted.  It's been excellent:

It lowers to about 18" off the ground for ease of loading; it take 2 e-bikes and has comfortably taken 3 ordinary ones; it winds up high so as not to obscure any lights; it can be operated by a cheap electric drill, as I do (comes with a manual winding handle).

I don't know if it is suitable for the latest Bourton, but I'd ask AS (who fitted the rack to mine).

Cymro

Hi, yes unfortunately the lights are odsucred when bikes are on the back, we have a tow hitch with bike rack which has lights attached, we also have a bike rack fitted on the Bourton and use a light board, the reason we had the tow hitch fitted is so we can tow the car sometimes instead.
Yes the Bourton has soft suspension, is no problem, its a lovely ride. Sorry can"t help with the last question .

Cymro wrote:Just a sixpence worth on the subject of bike racks. When we bought our NuevoES we explained to the dealer that we wanted a bike rack, and that we wanted it mounted as low as possible for ease of loading. He suggested - and we agreed - to have the Fiamma lifting rack fitted.  It's been excellent:

It lowers to about 18" off the ground for ease of loading; it take 2 e-bikes and has comfortably taken 3 ordinary ones; it winds up high so as not to obscure any lights; it can be operated by a cheap electric drill, as I do (comes with a manual winding handle).

I don't know if it is suitable for the latest Bourton, but I'd ask AS (who fitted the rack to mine).

Cymro

Hi Cymro

Thanks for sixpence worth!

I will be checking that out as it sounds ideal, the mounting racks on the Brouton are low and it would be super if you can raise the rack up away from the number plate and possible lights as well.

Do you actually have a model number for the rack please?

Ray

Cymro wrote:Just a sixpence worth on the subject of bike racks. When we bought our NuevoES we explained to the dealer that we wanted a bike rack, and that we wanted it mounted as low as possible for ease of loading. He suggested - and we agreed - to have the Fiamma lifting rack fitted.  It's been excellent:

It lowers to about 18" off the ground for ease of loading; it take 2 e-bikes and has comfortably taken 3 ordinary ones; it winds up high so as not to obscure any lights; it can be operated by a cheap electric drill, as I do (comes with a manual winding handle).

I don't know if it is suitable for the latest Bourton, but I'd ask AS (who fitted the rack to mine).

Cymro

Hi Cymro - I might be wrong but your Nuevo could have lower rear lights and higher Fiamma mounting points.  A-S changed their rear design to the current higher lights and lower Fiamma mounting points which creates the obstruction problem.

Ray:

Here's a link to what I have:
https://www.agentfiamma.co.uk/fiamma-carry-bike-lift-77-black.html

Caraman: That thought was behind my final sentence. Like you, I have my doubts, sadly, but AS can settle the matter.

Cymro

Cymro


That's the one that I looked at and because of the low bike rack mounting points on the Bourton it wont do the job for me for the reasons Caraman has stated.


Thanks once again for the input.


Ray