Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3

by Peterm Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:36 am

AS is just typical of nearly all UK industry. It why we are the sick man of Europe. It goes all the way from the top down, and has done since the Great Exhibition of 1850(ish).
The problem is not so much engineering based. It is class, politics and economics based.
I had hoped that AS may have changed when it was sold a few years ago, and it would have become big in Europe, but the sad UK attitudes have continued. As has the steady run down of UK engineering companies.

by Shockabilly Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:09 am

I'm just sat here with a cool beer reading this thread about AS quality as we're just about to take delivery of a new AS Symbol Plus, perhaps I shouldn't be reading it, however, we've had vans since the 80's which included a 1989 AS Trident (still the best van we've ever had) followed by 5 Hymer's all from new...so why are we returning to AS?

I hear a lot about German & Hymer build quality but trust me (I talk from experience here), they all have their faults & one in particular (I'll list below) was truly horrific, but the problem with Hymer is a dreadful dealer network, woeful doesn't adequately describe the likes of Lowdhams.

So faults, we downsized from an A Class (again this had many faults) to a Hymer Grand Canyon & the build quality was horrific, in short, panels adrift from fixings, louvre WC door fell off, water leaking from floorpan due to loose bathroom fixings, leaking window (they never did fix this) faulty fly screen, sliding door out of alignment, loose roof panel, every & I mean every drawer needed adjusting as they all opened when cornering, electrical issues (never resolved), faulty fridge (replaced)...I could carry on but I'm sure you get my drift.

Every Hymer we've owned has had faults, most I fixed myself as I know that warranty issues can be a painful experience but please don't be fooled into thinking all things German are better...they're simply not.

I fully expect a list of issues with our new AS but at least I've got an AS Service Centre within spitting distance as opposed to dealers blaming their uncontactable and in most cases, unaccountable German partners.

by groundhog Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:42 pm

Our AS is 10 years old now and seems to be less problematic as it has settled down. Any faults have been with fitted parts like heating and fridge rather than build quality. Friends who also own vans of all makes and sizes have problems, our sons Laika part of Hymer group the toilet fell through the floor and a neighbours Burstner the drop down bed did just that when he was driving it.
Our son sold the Laika a d bought a minibus which he then gutted and fitted out himself
Thar van cost less than £5000 and has been far more reliable than the coach built costing 10 times as much.
I am afraid faults will happen it is how they are dealt with makes the difference.

by v8oholic Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:00 pm

Mine is going into Marquis for a week in October to address water ingress (side and rear doors), flickering control screen which has also come unstuck and dropped on one side, and the fridge not working on 230V. The solar charging was already fixed, even if it did take 7 months just to swap a panel. None of these things have stopped me using and enjoying it though, and wouldn't stop me buying another one. Most are failures of third party electrical equipment.

by Shockabilly Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:38 pm

Our last (2017) A Class Hymer had to actually go back to ALKO for a laser alignment check when the diff failed at 7000 miles, also it had been subject to a 'smart repair' on the production line which resulted in a bad 'paint on paint' job that drew my eye every time I looked at, the bumpers yellowed badly, furniture chrome handles bubbled, fridge threw the towel in, leaks from the door & window, habitation door warped, alloys wormed...

I suppose what I am saying is that having tried other marques, they're all the same...the grass is most definitely not greener!

by groundhog Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:43 pm

On that subject I remember meeting a Dutch gentleman in France a few years back, he was returning his very expensive niesmann bischoff to the factory for the fifth time, it seems from what he was saying that on one occasion the windscreen actually fell out!
It was a beautiful machine though and he still loved it.

by IanH Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:25 pm

Real answer to most of the issues we see on here is never buy a new one. Get a 2 yr old with, usually less than 10k miles on. Most of that 10k will have been the poor sod who bought it new running back and to the dealers.
May sound cynical but it does work...........

by Richard75 Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:54 am

Given the frequent trouncing of AS quality and customer service on here, is there really any objective difference in quality between AS and other British brands, such as Swift mentioned above, or is it just clever marketing / something that was once true but no longer?

by groundhog Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:41 am

Not sure the trouncing is that frequent is it? Neither is it a surprise it takes place on a website dedicated to the marque. The point most owners are making is all marques have problems but new vans are particularly prone to them before they shake down. IanH frames it nicely, let some other poor sod have the first two years of aggro and the depreciation that goes with it.
Seems to me the quality in pretty much anything you buy these days has become poorer and especially anything that involves complicated electronics.

by Richard75 Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:23 am

Yeah I think there's frequent criticism of AS build quality and customer service quality on the forum (this very thread is part 3 of just one person's criticism) but let's not get into a debate on 'frequency'...

My question was merely whether anyone has a perspective on the quality of AS relative to other British (or even non-British) brands. I'm all for buying British, but not at any cost and, if I'm going to spend a bigger chunk of change on my next van, it would be good to have the thoughts of more experienced van owners.

by Paulmold Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:26 am

I think you could look at IH and Wildax if you want good customer service and build quality, unfortunately IH prices are even higher than AS.

by Tinwheeler Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:40 am

WildAx isn’t perfect either but at least the furniture stays put and doesn’t creak and groan.
up!

by IanH Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:33 am

I took this pic at the Norwich show as I simply couldn't believe my own eyes....
PVC £104705!!!! Had a look inside, brief to be fair and wasn't immediately wanting one.......

AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3 - Page 3 Img_2211

by gassygassy Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:32 pm

What did they charge you to look inside? confused3

And from what I read of Mercedes based motorhomes they have an off-putting amount of faults, and "features". One of which is that you get out, shut the doors, sit down for a beer in the awning and then there's a 'click' as the central locking locks itself. You have to prise open a window and get a small child to climb in to recover your keys. If the clever dicks who thought that auto-self locking was a good idea are that clever, given that the keys are 'intelligent' (Har Har) the clever dick computer somewhere in the vehicle should be able to detect the proximity of the keys, and not lock the flipping doors ! tap_fingers

And therein lies a possible important thing we might all do. Get a spare door key and hide it somewhere outside the vehicle where you need a tool to recover it. Then when you are in Oberammergau or somewhere equally remote and don't speak the local language, if you haven't got the necessary Pozidriv No.2 screwdriver to remove one of the rear light lenses where you hid the spare key it is easy enough to buy one locally. Your spare key is doing no good hidden in a drawer back in the UK is it?
Sorry, drifted off a bit there.
Oh and by the way I know someone who buys IH motorhomes, and he always has to take them back to be fixed . . . . . . That surprised me because they look beautifully crafted inside.

by gassygassy Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:49 pm

Back to the subject: I am with IanH:
Real answer to most of the issues we see on here is never buy a new one. Get a 2 yr old with, usually less than 10k miles on. Most of that 10k will have been the poor sod who bought it new running back and to the dealers.
May sound cynical but it does work...........

My current and possibly last motorhome is a thirteen year old German made one, a 2009 Hobby. It is so well built I actually rejoice in the quality every time I use it. One theory is that a) it's German therefore it's good (which apparently doesn't hold true now) and b) that it would have been built or at least designed before the last recession. I bought it at about 30,000 miles, 11 years old and I have had to replace two screws which came undone (retaining the shower door, and a washroom shelf), . . . . erm . .. . . . . what else? erm . . .erm . . . .there must be something else . . . . . . . er, no, that's all the repairs I have had to do in the two years I have owned it.
I have just returned from 5 weeks wandering around France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and back, about 4000 miles, and nothing went wrong. The Ford Transit base vehicle has a rubbish engine (2.2 Euro 4) with absolutely no torque below 1500 so in order to start uphill you have to plant the accelererator on the floor, wait two seconds for the needle to hit the red line before letting the clutch up and spinning the front tyres. Otherwise the engine stalls. Fords were always like that, lousy torque at low revs, specially compared with the Fiat Ducato. Apart from that it's fine, it has a far superior dashboard compared to the Fiat.
I have the cash in the bank for a new camper, but a) I don't think a new one of any make will be as good as this one and b) what with the NHS in freefall, my cash needs to be retained for future health care needs.

by Peter Brown Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:53 pm

gassygassy wrote:What did they charge you to look inside?
And from what I read of Mercedes based motorhomes they have an off-putting amount of faults, and "features". One of which is that you get out, shut the doors, sit down for a beer in the awning and then there's a 'click' as the central locking locks itself. You have to prise open a window and get a small child to climb in to recover your keys.
And therein lies a possible important thing we might all do. Get a spare door key and hide it somewhere outside the vehicle where you need a tool to recover it. Then when you are in Oberammergau or somewhere equally remote and don't speak the local language, if you haven't got the necessary Pozidriv No.2 screwdriver to remove one of the rear light lenses where you hid the spare key it is easy enough to buy one locally. Your spare key is doing no good hidden in a drawer back in the UK is it?
Sorry, drifted off a bit there.
Oh and by the way I know someone who buys IH motorhomes, and he always has to take them back to be fixed . . . . . . That surprised me because they look beautifully crafted inside.

Seen a couple of people locked out of Ford's for the same reason. We don't use central locking on site, only manual key in hab door so no risk - also do have hidden key.

by groundhog Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:33 am

If you don't like it you can always have the system turned off winks

by IanH Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:10 am

Or if you use my theory of never buying new get one 2 yrs old, and extend it a bit to my current situation, 20 yrs old you also don't have to worry as it wasn't invented then!!! hugegrins

by Richard75 Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:33 am

IanH wrote:Or if you use my theory of never buying new get one 2 yrs old, and extend it a bit to my current situation, 20 yrs old you also don't have to worry as it wasn't invented then!!!

Same! Which took some getting used to when I first bought the van since it was first vehicle I'd had without central locking since my first or second car!

I've also used your 2 (more like 3) year rule when buying cars with mixed success!

Seriously thinking about applying said rule to a new van if I sell my house but, I must admit, I'm completely confused as to a choice of MH or engine manufacturer after the conflicting views I've read...

by Caraman Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:56 am

Peter Brown wrote:
gassygassy wrote:What did they charge you to look inside?
And from what I read of Mercedes based motorhomes they have an off-putting amount of faults, and "features". One of which is that you get out, shut the doors, sit down for a beer in the awning and then there's a 'click' as the central locking locks itself. You have to prise open a window and get a small child to climb in to recover your keys.
And therein lies a possible important thing we might all do. Get a spare door key and hide it somewhere outside the vehicle where you need a tool to recover it. Then when you are in Oberammergau or somewhere equally remote and don't speak the local language, if you haven't got the necessary Pozidriv No.2 screwdriver to remove one of the rear light lenses where you hid the spare key it is easy enough to buy one locally. Your spare key is doing no good hidden in a drawer back in the UK is it?
Sorry, drifted off a bit there.
Oh and by the way I know someone who buys IH motorhomes, and he always has to take them back to be fixed . . . . . . That surprised me because they look beautifully crafted inside.
Seen a couple of people locked out of Ford's for the same reason. We don't use central locking on site, only manual key in hab door so no risk - also do have hidden key.

Interesting solutions to the second set of keys. There is certainly no point leaving them at home or in the van or in the van's safe so as there are two of us, I take the first set which is normally all we use and my wife takes the second set whenever we leave the van. At home we store both sets together in a safe place in the house. Both sets have a remote central locking fob which when used arms and disarms the alarm (there is no other way of doing this) but the second set's fob (provided by the alarm company) centrally locks the habitation door (along with the cab doors) but doesn't unlock it. For that the manual key in the second set has to be used but only after the alarm has been disarmed by centrally unlocking the cab doors. A bit complicated which is why my wife normally waits for me to return if she gets back to the van before me!

by Cymro Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:03 am

Very impressed that you can remember that procedure!!

Cymro

by Caraman Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:14 am

Cymro wrote:Very impressed that you can remember that procedure!!

Cymro

That's why I typed it out to help me remember it! The last/first time my wife got back to the van before me, she discovered that her central locking/unlocking fob wouldn't unlock the habitation door. There then followed a frantic exchange of messages with me whilst I was completing the longer leg of our walk. We worked out that her fob would open the cab doors but access through them is difficult with the cab seats reversed and she was petrified of setting off the alarm, especially by unlocking the habitation door with just the key. Despite all the reassurances I could give, she just waited for me to return.

by gassygassy Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:52 am

That doesn't sound right, a fob that locks but doesn't unlock. Have you checked with the manufacturer that it is the case?
My dislike of flaky electronics extends to the fact that my 2009 Transit has a central locking button on one of the fobs but I don't bother with it. I stick the key in the keyhole and turn it. Both front doors then lock or unlock. The habitation door doesn't have central locking.
I keep looking for a pre-1993 Mercedes car but they seem to have quadrupled in value recently. I used to expect to get quite a good one for £500 - £1000 but I recently saw one on ebay for £15,000. That must be a money laundering exercise, which you quite often see on that web site.

by pstallwood Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:02 pm

With a Merc always open a front door BEFORE even thinking of opening the habitation door. Our Merc car also works this way. Likewise our Mini will lock itself if you don't open a door.

Whilst we were away last year the occupiers of the pitch next door had managed to get their keys locked in their Fiat based van and it didn't have the Merc system. When the locksmith got there he took about 15 minutes to pick the driver's door lock.

by Caraman Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:05 am

gassygassy wrote:That doesn't sound right, a fob that locks but doesn't unlock. Have you checked with the manufacturer that it is the case?
...

You made me doubt myself and go out to check that the alarm company (Cobra) fob locks the habitation door but doesn't unlock it and I can confirm that is what it does. I think I was told this by the chap who fitted the alarm over 3 years ago. The A-S fob has 3 buttons - 1 locks all the doors and arms the alarm, 2 disarms the alarm and unlocks the cab doors and 3 disarms the alarm and unlocks the habitation door. The Cobra fob is missing the 3rd button so it can only lock all doors and arm the alarm and disarm the alarm and unlock the cab doors. It's a shame but not the end of the world that it doesn't have the third button which would disarm the alarm and unlock the habitation door. When you think of it in these terms, it's easier to understand.