AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
The Auto-Sleeper Motorhome Owners Forum (ASOF) :: General Motorhome Forum :: Auto-Sleepers & Motorhome Dealers Chat
Page 2 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
I really hope that the move was good for him and his family - at least he is working a lot nearer home.
_________________
Best wishes - Ron
inspiredron- Member
-
Posts : 3436
Joined : 2012-06-03
Member Age : 83
Location : Ellesmere, Shropshire
Auto-Sleeper Model : Lancashire
Vehicle Year : 2012
jwells likes this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
I agree the water tank heating device is on a par with the chocolate teapot as inventions go.gassygassy wrote:There are several problems with trying to get your outlay refunded. If you get a problem when it is new the law obliges you to give the retailer an opportunity to fix the problem. I think the only successful course of action is just to give them one opportunity. The second problem you have is that when you have given them (the retailer) two opportunities to rectify the problem, you are deemed in law to have accepted the item. The retailer is responsible for the rubbish workmanship of the manufacturer, so there is no point trying the manufacturer. The third problem is that the retailer will not give you your money back unless a court orders them to. The fourth cost of trying to get a refund is that a letter from your solicitor to the retailer costs £600. You will have to pay this: it is only people on benefits or in prison and super rich people who can afford legal representation.
In a similar situation to yours, but within 3 months of buying a repeatedly defective motorhome, my small town solicitor charged me the said £600 to write a 'I want my money back - this item is defective and is unfit for purpose' letter. That failed, so I went back to the solicitor who said "OK we can take them to court. I require a deposit of £20,000 which will buy you your first day in court. You must bear in mind that 'the law is a cross between a horse and a donkey' and if your motorhome only has three wheels the judge will find in favour of the dealer and you will keep the three wheeler, pay my costs and pay the retailer's costs which will be considerably more than mine".
I decided that the cheapest way out would be to trade the vehicle in which is what I did. I lost £4,000. It wasn't an A/S, it was a Rapido. Never again, they make A/S quality control look splendid.
Between you and me and the gate post I now have a German motorhome, a 2009 model and it is so far superior to my AutoSleeper I frequently stand back and admire the wiring, the cabinetry, the design, and the general build quality.
And you are right about switches. Black plastic switches which go click and join two pieces of metal together are far far superior to the awful touch screen things. As are light switches on the wall at elbow height. Would you buy a house with light switches on the ceiling? Neither would I. I also do not need (or know how) to use a phone to turn on the motorhome heating as I leave a pub three miles down the road. I do not need a waste water heater. I do not need an electronic dispaly to tell me if it is sunny or raining outside. I do not need to get out of bed to turn off the lights at night, I can do it when I am in bed. And lots of similar showroom sales gimmicks. The Nuevo has a tiny weeny switch on the ceiling in the washroom - this is a fairly common thing in motorhomes. the last time a salesman told me that 'this has four berths so it is an ideal family motorhome' I went to the washroom where the light switch was on the ceiling and asked the salesman "how can my four year old use the toilet at night when he can't turn on the light?" The salesman had no answer, other than some mumbling about rigging up a battery night light in the toilet. I said " so it's not a family motorhome then. Show me one which is". He couldn't so I left.
Rich..
RML- Member
-
Posts : 1084
Joined : 2012-03-27
Member Age : 64
Location : Somerset
Auto-Sleeper Model : Ex - Gatcombe
Vehicle Year : 2008
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
So enough is enough. We sold it a month ago on Auto Trader, and incidentally almost got what we paid for it after six serious enquiries and have moved to Swift. Whether they are any better who knows and I doubt it ! But AS have deteriorated and I am not sorry to go. I only wish I could buy a new van with old fashioned switches and no fancy digital stuff. I really mean that.
I love this forum and will miss it. Thanks to everyone who manages it and the moderators. The Swift one is not a patch on it.
Sunbeampizza- Member
-
Posts : 100
Joined : 2014-12-01
Member Age : 81
Location : Bucks.
Auto-Sleeper Model : Nuevo
Vehicle Year : 2012
gassygassy and SENTINEL like this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Tinwheeler- Donator
-
Posts : 3989
Joined : 2018-09-21
Location : Kernow
Auto-Sleeper Model : None
Vehicle Year : None
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Tinwheeler wrote:I was told there's no need to leave this forum when I made a similar move.
This is true.Still waiting for the right AS to come my way.It will not be a new one!
Micky
mikethebike- Member
-
Posts : 4243
Joined : 2012-03-02
Location : peterborough
Auto-Sleeper Model : Symphony
Vehicle Year : 2000
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Hope the new Swift works out faultless, unfortunately all these vehicles like many other things in life are getting more technical for no good reason and consequently less reliable, reading other forums it seems to apply across the board, German. French, British built it seems to make little difference these days.
It is how the manufacturer or supplier deals with the problem is the main issue and it is there AS seem to be getting it wrong.
groundhog- Donator
- Posts : 6105
Joined : 2011-08-02
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper Model : Worcester
Admin, mikethebike and SENTINEL like this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
RCBirmingham wrote:So here we are again, another rant about quality.
My van is currently back in for repairs after the main control panel decided to stop working whilst on holiday and the main charger packed up leaving me with a dead vehicle battery whilst in the middle of nowhere on Mull. Now this is the 3rd holiday in 12 months I have had to cut short due to the vehicle electrics failing... so back of the dealer it went. Interestingly the 2nd time this happened AS said they replaced the control panel with the newest version and all of the Sargent Controller was also replaced, and yet here we are, same problem, different month.
So van is with dealer and the first thing they tell me is that the control panel is an old version, now bearing in mind this has been replaced once by the dealer and the last time by the factory who installed the latest version... or so they said.
I have asked the dealer to also sort out about 8+ other quality / fitment problems, and have sent them the list of the 30+ other items the factory are supposed to have repaired and have asked they all be 'checked'. Whilst they have the van I have asked that a paint repair be done to part of the back panel, but have asked that this does not go back to AS as they 'repaired' it previously and it's started to bubble once again in the same place.
To date this quality British product has led to 3 separate holidays being cut short and the van will have been in for it's various repairs for some 3 months out of the last 12... and the response from all involved, a shrug of the shoulders and a sorry... that's it.
I have now put the dealer on notice that the if vehicle continues to not be 'fit for purpose', given all parties have tried to fix the various problems several times, and that if it's not working as it should with all quality issues rectified, I'll be rejecting the van and perusing a full refund / compensation.
As much as I love my Broadway, I'm not prepared to accept that having spent north of 60k that this quality and reliability is something I can live with. If I had wanted Swift quality I would have brought a Swift!!
And finally, does anybody from AS actually read this forum? If so, they must hold their heads in shame, or they simply don't care, their strapline being 'A company like no other'... I could come up with others more apt!
you make good points. For us, new AS Warwick Duo, all sorts of niggles including a badly assembled melted gas tank sender cable to the rubbish in cab meter. water blanket help on with what looks like prit stick and falls off after 1 journey even after warranty replacement, similarly melted brake cable (routed too close to the exhaust pipe, similarly melted water drain hose, a haywire control panel sending Sargent messages that the vehicle battery is low (control panel shows it falling to 0.1V) yet van started easily. Nice to receive that after going for a walk and sitting down to (not enjoy for worry) a pub meal. Now said control panel switches on and off at random but wont turn completely off. AdBlue warning, topped up, still warning. This is 1970s rubbish quality control. It killed the British motorcycle industry and nearly did the same for British cars. Very unimpressed. We love the Van but it is doing our nut in!
Victor Johnstone- Member
-
Posts : 186
Joined : 2020-10-19
Location : Glasgow
Auto-Sleeper Model : Warwick duo
Vehicle Year : 2020
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Victor Johnstone- Member
-
Posts : 186
Joined : 2020-10-19
Location : Glasgow
Auto-Sleeper Model : Warwick duo
Vehicle Year : 2020
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
The important matter is how those snags are addressed. In a high quantity car production facility they quickly find what snags are likely, look for them and correct them before despatch - but not always. I bought a three month old car that had been delivered and registered a month before the models formal release - in the first six months it had FORTY recalls.
I've been reading on the forum lately of members having issues with gas installations at home and I've certainty experienced domestic work where plumbing joints have not been made properly.
When you get your new (to you) van look to your dealer for advice on how you should expect systems to perform and call him to account for a remedy when any of those expectations are not met. Keep communications professional and amiable and there is a 95% chance all will be sorted to your satisfaction and if its not you have quality objective evidence to take to court.
With the exception of one gas distribution related installation that was found to be positively dangerous, I've not read on the forum of any generic scenario of problem with a new van that I've not experienced with the vans that I have had and had resolved properly.
Peter Brown- Donator
-
Posts : 10644
Joined : 2012-11-11
Member Age : 72
Location : Staffs
Auto-Sleeper Model : Broadway EB
Vehicle Year : 2016
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
I have taken delivery of many new Boeing and Airbus aeroplanes and if you saw the snag list on those you would never fly again. BUT they are all cleared efficiently and in a timely manner before the aeroplane enters commercial service and that is the big difference.
groundhog- Donator
- Posts : 6105
Joined : 2011-08-02
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper Model : Worcester
Kdc likes this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Victor Johnstone- Member
-
Posts : 186
Joined : 2020-10-19
Location : Glasgow
Auto-Sleeper Model : Warwick duo
Vehicle Year : 2020
jwells likes this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
A motorhome is a bespoke build, built by humans not robots and sometimes things will go wrong, they shouldn't but they will. The biggest problem as we all agree is these faults are not being picked up before the vehicle is put in to service, they should never be delivered to end users with such often simple faults that have not been attended too. A melted wire is a classic example, how could someone not have seen that if the vehicle was inspected properly?
groundhog- Donator
- Posts : 6105
Joined : 2011-08-02
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper Model : Worcester
mikethebike, jwells and RCBirmingham like this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Victor Johnstone- Member
-
Posts : 186
Joined : 2020-10-19
Location : Glasgow
Auto-Sleeper Model : Warwick duo
Vehicle Year : 2020
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Haven't we all?groundhog wrote:.......
I have taken delivery of many new Boeing and Airbus aeroplanes .....
You must have a big garage, that's all I can say.
gassygassy- Donator
-
Posts : 1241
Joined : 2019-06-22
Location : Lutterworth
Auto-Sleeper Model : 1 Bourton 1 Polensa
Vehicle Year : various
groundhog likes this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Back on thread now...
groundhog- Donator
- Posts : 6105
Joined : 2011-08-02
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper Model : Worcester
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Groundhog - I thnk the quite awesome and profound message you are giving is that when we are taking delivery of a new motorhome we need to be as thorough as you when you were taking delivery of a Big Aeroplane. I guess your check list must have extended to 380 pages.
So what we need to do is to get past the 'ooh doesn't it smell nice inside, aren't the tyres black, and the alloy wheels shiny and look at the speedo with 30 miles on the clock' (which have all been done at 85mph). Instead we need to go with at least ten pages of checklist, get the keys off the dealer and tell him to B off for the rest of the day while we check it out. And not accept his word that "yes, we can fix that peeling off label
at the first service". We must be prepared to go back home and wait till they have fixed all the snags. And hold out till they are all fixed before we hand over the balance, assuming we left a deposit if we are not trading our old one in. Even if the dealer is at the other end of the country.
_________________
complexity is the enemy of reliability
gassygassy- Donator
-
Posts : 1241
Joined : 2019-06-22
Location : Lutterworth
Auto-Sleeper Model : 1 Bourton 1 Polensa
Vehicle Year : various
jwells likes this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
It is not hard!
groundhog- Donator
- Posts : 6105
Joined : 2011-08-02
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper Model : Worcester
jwells likes this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Micky
mikethebike- Member
-
Posts : 4243
Joined : 2012-03-02
Location : peterborough
Auto-Sleeper Model : Symphony
Vehicle Year : 2000
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Rich..
RML- Member
-
Posts : 1084
Joined : 2012-03-27
Member Age : 64
Location : Somerset
Auto-Sleeper Model : Ex - Gatcombe
Vehicle Year : 2008
mikethebike and jwells like this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Micky
mikethebike- Member
-
Posts : 4243
Joined : 2012-03-02
Location : peterborough
Auto-Sleeper Model : Symphony
Vehicle Year : 2000
gassygassy likes this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
I agree that a quality manufacturer will engineer out repeated problems, if they have a desire for a long term of the business. If they just want to maximise profits now in order to sell the business then they aren't interested in the long term.RML wrote:I disagree, a quality manufacturer will engineer out repeated problems, only those with no conscience will keep making something that fails in the same place and takes their customers for granted.
Rich..
I'm not sure if this is drifting off thread but:
When the Mk1 Cortina was launched they found lots of hold-ups in the production line. The bosses wanted to stop the line for 2 weeks to rectify the build problems so they organised a strike so that they wouldn't have to pay the workers while the line was shut down. It was cheaper, they reckoned, to give in to striker's demands after two weeks than it was to pay them full wages for two weeks.
When Ford bought Jaguar (I heard this from a Jag worker who was on the line at the time) Ford sent a team of quality control engineers to the factory and asked each worker individually to show them what he did, and specifically to ask what problems they had encountered as the cars came down the line. The chap I spoke to said he told the inspector that often the rear axle mounts don't exactly line up with the holes in the chassis. Sometimes he even had to drill expanded holes in the chassis in order to fit the axle. Ford shut down the plant for two weeks to rectify all the problems found in the survey. When they went back, this chap said every single axle fitted perfectly and he was able to shift a lot more cars in the day than he had before. I'm not a fan of Ford cars, but I thought that was interesting.
It would be nice if all british motor caravan manufacturers would try that approach. Not just A/S. Do we have a manufacturer with a good reputation for quality control? Is it the case that A/S are generally very good (but not perfect) and as with any other product the forums only get lots of complaining posts and very few saying how happy the customers are?
We would only know if we had access to the warranty claims data that the manufacturers must have, locked away in a secret safe somewhere!
gassygassy- Donator
-
Posts : 1241
Joined : 2019-06-22
Location : Lutterworth
Auto-Sleeper Model : 1 Bourton 1 Polensa
Vehicle Year : various
jwells likes this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Quotes from Geoff Scott -
"We build a quality motorhome that doesn't leak and therefore we're very confident to put wood in the construction"
"Our quality levels have also improved - our warranty claims have never been lower"
"We constantly review the performance of our partners/suppliers and, if we feel there is an issue, we try and help them to improve and if that doesn't work, then we may change supplier"
"We believe the customer is king".
_________________
Nice to be important but more important to be nice
Paulmold- Donator
-
Posts : 26679
Joined : 2011-02-22
Member Age : 73
Location : North East Wales
Auto-Sleeper Model : Sussex Duo
Vehicle Year : 2010
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Actions speak louder than words. That's another one.
Micky
mikethebike- Member
-
Posts : 4243
Joined : 2012-03-02
Location : peterborough
Auto-Sleeper Model : Symphony
Vehicle Year : 2000
gassygassy likes this post
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
Well that, having given me a good laugh for the day, means I can now go outside and work on my steel-framed 1981 Eriba Puck. I'm replacing the wood in the gas locker at the front of it.Paulmold wrote:Back in 2016 MMM mag interviewed Geoff Scott CEO and I quote....
Quotes from Geoff Scott -
"We build a quality motorhome that doesn't leak and therefore we're very confident to put wood in the construction"
"Our quality levels have also improved - our warranty claims have never been lower"
"We constantly review the performance of our partners/suppliers and, if we feel there is an issue, we try and help them to improve and if that doesn't work, then we may change supplier"
"We believe the customer is king".
( I won't mention the steel chassis, some of which rusted and I have replaced )
Is there a forum section for 1981 AutoSleepers? Excuse me for asking - without searching first!
gassygassy- Donator
-
Posts : 1241
Joined : 2019-06-22
Location : Lutterworth
Auto-Sleeper Model : 1 Bourton 1 Polensa
Vehicle Year : various
Re: AutoSleepers Quality Control Pt 3
another onemikethebike wrote:Words are cheap. That's a saying i always remember.
Actions speak louder than words. That's another one.
Micky
Money talks bullsh*t walks!
groundhog- Donator
- Posts : 6105
Joined : 2011-08-02
Location : Poldarkland
Auto-Sleeper Model : Worcester
Page 2 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
» Burford Duo Quality
» Quality handrail
» Reversing camera cables
» Build Quality
The Auto-Sleeper Motorhome Owners Forum (ASOF) :: General Motorhome Forum :: Auto-Sleepers & Motorhome Dealers Chat