Van conversion or compact under 6 m c/built?

Weegie wrote:I think you're focusing on the wrong things at this stage of your journey into ownership. 

You should go and look at as many different vans as you can and write three lists.

1) What MUST your van have? These are the things that are deal breakers and usually things that can't be retrofitted. 

Our list included fixed bed, shower and toilet.

2) What SHOULD your van have? These are the things you'll definitely need but can wait until after you've purchased a vehicle. 

For us, this included a tow bar, bike rack and solar. 

3) What COULD your van have? These are the nice-to-haves.

Our list included wind out awning and external BBQ point

Once you have your three lists, then start considering which models meet those requirements. You may find this alone answers your C/B v PVC question. 

Tommy.

That's all very well and fine if you're approaching the purchase with no prior definitive requirements.

However in this case it seems to me that the overriding requirement is for a van that's well under 6m long.

On that basis, if you want an Auto-Sleeper the main candidates are Nuevo or Symbol. There have been other smallish A/S models but they are few and far between and some are getting very old and probably very risky in the 'will it hold together' stakes.

So if you're going for Nuevo or Symbol then you have to accept the features of those vans and no amount of wanting fixed beds will get you them, they aren't available and just wouldn't fit.

Fine, if you're increasing your search to 6m or 6.4m then a much wider range of layouts become possible and you can widen your preferences.

The biggest thing for us in going for a van over a coachbuilt is the ability to open the doors up (when the weather allows) and to have that inside outside feeling.  Personally we find Coachbuilts a bit claustrophobic as the doors tend to be quite small and although they generally have big windows for us its not the same.  This is a totally personal view though so the best option when you can is to go and sit in a few different models and see what you like.

E.G.

jennyandpeter wrote:We have had our Warwick (hetty) just over 4 years now averages 36 to the gallon. 10,000 miles. 
In that time road tax £1000 insurance £1000 servicing £300. Depreciation 0.
Costs, new gas regulator new leisure battery, air-con regas and a new loo water pump = £400.
Everything else was optional. 
Saved us £5000 hiring a campervan in New Zealand as we swapped ours for it.
Don't buy new and take your time and things are not that expensive.

Are you saying that the £5k saved in New Zealand offsets 4 years depreciation or that you will take the big big when it comes at the point when you sell Betty?

steamdrivenandy wrote:
That's all very well and fine if you're approaching the purchase with no prior definitive requirements.

However in this case it seems to me that the overriding requirement is for a van that's well under 6m long.

... 

Indeed, I quite agree, and "Sub 6m" might be top of the OP's "must have" list. 

However, the other things on the OP's "must have" list might tell them that a sub 6m van is not suitable - it depends on whether or not length is a higher priority than those other "must haves" - we all have our own priorities. For example, a fixed bed is absolutely a "must have" for us, so, we compromised on van length. The OP may well prioritise differently. 

But I' m suggesting that it could be a mistake to focus on a model purely because it's sub 6m if other things mean it doesn't work well for them. Yes, there's always going to be a compromise, but, my list suggestion will help to decide where compromises can be made.

Tommy.

jennyandpeter wrote:We have had our Warwick (hetty) just over 4 years now averages 36 to the gallon. 10,000 miles. 
In that time road tax £1000 insurance £1000 servicing £300. Depreciation 0.
Costs, new gas regulator new leisure battery, air-con regas and a new loo water pump = £400.
Everything else was optional. 
Saved us £5000 hiring a campervan in New Zealand as we swapped ours for it.
Don't buy new and take your time and things are not that expensive.

So you purchased Hetty in 2017 when she was seven years old and, how can I put it, she was in her prime. 

Based on todays pricing she would've cost you somewhere around the £43,000 mark and she'd sell on a forecourt today for around £35,000. Go back to 2017 and prices were around £5,000 less so you probably actually paid about £38,000 and if prices return to 'normality' you'd find her on a forecourt now for £30,000. But that's only part of the story. You may be lucky and sell at a forecourt price, but if you sell to a dealer or PX the van you'll get something like £25,000 for it in normal market circumstances, maybe £30,000 with current demand. That's depreciation between £13,000 and £8,000 over 4 years, depending how and when you realise it by selling. Don't kid yourself it's not happening because it does, it's inexorable.

As to servicing and repairs you've run the van during its sweet spot, when the price has reduced from the heady heights of a new vehicle, but hasn't reached decrepitude, when the bills really start rolling in. However in 4 years it really should have had at least three habitation and base vehicle services, which would run at about £1,500 and if they're not documented that will affect the value of the vehicle when it comes time to part. 

Hetty is now 11 years old and if the original tyres haven't been replaced they should be, before they blow out on you. All the rubber joints and seals will have degraded and be starting to split and crack as they lose elasticity, so there will be aircon and maybe fluid leaks. Steering and suspension joints will be wearing and some will need replacing, brakes discs will be wearing and require replacement and brake hoses will be getting time expired, metal brake lines will be corroding and brake fluid definitely will need changing if it hasn't already been done. Wheel bearing might start to play up, light bulbs blow, plastic light lenses fade and need replacement. The list goes on and on.

it's certainly possible to have a van (coachbuilt or PVC) with a fixed bed thats (just) under 6m..
the largest selling van (PVC) layout in Europe is just that...

i can sort of see the 'open rear doors' attraction, but if the weather is nice enough to have the doors open, then we would probably be sitting outside...and be able to position our chairs to make the most of the (moving) sunshine...

The choice of what you buy will be influenced by what you look at from my limited experience. We started off looking for a Clubman or Gatcombe but thought it was more than we needed so swapped to looking for van conversions. 
By the time we found a Duetto that we liked we thought it was right for us and had lots of travels in it. When retirement loomed we decided to look for something will a bit more room and slightly newer. 
Again we didn’t want anything too big and thought about another Duetto but I was advised by a friend of a couple of Rienza coach builds for sale. Being polite we went to look at them and again changed our plans and bought one. Yes it’s bigger than we wanted but it feels right for us.

rgermain wrote:

bolero boy wrote:it's certainly possible to have a van (coachbuilt or PVC) with a fixed bed thats (just) under 6m..
the largest selling van (PVC) layout in Europe is just that...

i can sort of see the 'open rear doors' attraction, but if the weather is nice enough to have the doors open, then we would probably be sitting outside...and be able to position our chairs to make the most of the (moving) sunshine...

What van would that be Chris, please might be helpful if you said the make?
-----------
Richard

Richard, what i said was the 'the largest selling (PVC) van layout in Europe'....which is a 5.99m van with rear transverse bed, front dinette and central kitchen washroom.
a typical example would be the Adria Twin SP, who brought this to market first, however there are very many other Continental brands mirroring this layout which is why its so popular.
not so popular with UK converters but UK buyers tend to buy Continental if looking for this layout.

rgermain wrote:

bolero boy wrote:it's certainly possible to have a van (coachbuilt or PVC) with a fixed bed thats (just) under 6m..
the largest selling van (PVC) layout in Europe is just that...

i can sort of see the 'open rear doors' attraction, but if the weather is nice enough to have the doors open, then we would probably be sitting outside...and be able to position our chairs to make the most of the (moving) sunshine...

What van would that be Chris, please might be helpful if you said the make?
-----------
Richard

IIRC Adria used to offer a 540 Twin model, with a fixed rear bed but presumably it didn't sell very well and it was dropped a couple of years ago, along with their 5m Twin. They now appear to offer just a few 6m Twins and lots of 6.4m ones. Paraphrasing something else '6.4m is the new 6m'.


For me 5.99m is for all intents and purposes 6m. And there are masses of Adria Twin clones about, but with a maximum bed length of only 6ft 2ins they're not for the likes of me. And they have the door on the incorrect side too (mostly). And that's from an ex-owner of a new Adria Coral Compact that was 6m long, same layout as Twin, but the bed was 6ft 5ins long.

the Adria Twin SP is the only van in their range that IS produced 'UK handed...note door on UK nearside, steering wheel on the right.
i agree the longitudinal bedded vans (and there are even 6m layouts thus equipped) are superceding the transverse beds...but with Adria and other makes now getting back into poptops for Ducatos (hot layouts for families) they can now get miltiple berths without going longer.

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To the OP, enjoy getting out next week to view as many as you can. Some folk spend so much time internet searching and ‘viewing’ on line that they miss out on a sale so I encourage time spent travelling around in the real world! 
I hope you are not put off by less enthusiastic comments about Forum Etiquette (this really is a friendly forum!), maybe over inflated running costs and depreciation and general lack of dealer stock. If nothing else this last year has been a reminder to Seize the Day as no one know what tomorrow will bring, or indeed if there will be a tomorrow! 
Enjoy your search and if the first one does not suit after a time then it can be changed...like many of us have done! No different to a car really but camping vehicles hold their value more than cars ( excluding brand new but you are not looking at those)

Having run a van with the original Adria Twin layout for a couple of years, I can only say that I found it very restrictive and boringly repetitive. Two single rear seats with an aisle in the middle is a much more interesting and civilised option. That's what the Adria Twin 500 used and I can't really figure out why it doesn't feature more.

Motorhomes hold their value better than cars? The rule of thumb with cars is that they're worth 40% of their original list price after 3 years. So a £60,000 car will be worth £24,000 to the trade at three years old. It'll be put on a forecourt for £30,000, about 20% more.

A £60,000 motorhome retails for about £45,000 in normal times, but the dealer will have put a margin of about £9,000 on it (still 20% more), meaning the owner gets about £36,000 or 60%, rather than the cars 40%. 

If you just think of forecourt prices, then the car drops 50% in the first 3 years and a motorhome 25% and it's the inflated dealer margins that make the motorhomes look like they don't lose much. You have to look behind at the reality to know what's actually going on and owners should know what to expect when the time comes to change.

i cant answer your question Andy, except to say that the layout you describe (500) with the aisle requires the beds to be made up, ie convert the lounge...the Continentals just dont do this...
im not sure they regard their vans as interesting......
civilised, im sure, functional, certainly.....
their vans are used as mobile bedrooms, they spend all day outside enjoying the weather, exploring, cooking, eating, drinking (just as we do when 'away')..and only use the van for sleeping in...hence the dominance of fixed bed layouts and sparce kitchens...that's their market.
i just cant see a typical German couple wanting to mess about with bed slats, sleeping bags etc...or a roast in the oven.

I'm not too sure about roasts in an oven, but then again I don't like the idea of driving my whole lounge and bedroom about. It's camping for goodness sake not trying to drag a home environment up and down motorways. I like to have something somewhat spartan in a van, rather than Grand Designs on four (or six) wheels.

Good morning Andy
We purchased Hetty privately for the same amount a dealer offered the seller in 2017.  
Tyre's will be replaced once we can start to travel.
 Yes I know everything does depreciate and that is normally the biggest cost in owning a vehicle, but chose well and look after things and the losses will be smaller.  
To Don no plans to sell hetty, just saying she has been worth it to us.

steamdrivenandy wrote:I'm not too sure about roasts in an oven, but then again I don't like the idea of driving my whole lounge and bedroom about. It's camping for goodness sake not trying to drag a home environment up and down motorways. I like to have something somewhat spartan in a van, rather than Grand Designs on four (or six) wheels

Andy, i thought we are talking about motorhomes and motorhoming?
i 'camped' once..i seem to remember a tent was involved...you might class what you do as 'camping' but i imagine most AS MH owners (campers of excellence, perhaps?) wouldnt necessarily agree. we certainly arent campers.
even smaller vans, especially UK ones like AS, have kitchens that have ovens that will do a 'proper' dinner, even our small German van has one....we had the dealer fit it.
im sure you love your Spartan style but the market is moving towards a more gadget laden approach.
either way, im sure the OP will take all the comments on board and come to a decision.
its nice for him, and us, to have so much choice...

Thank you for these great replies ...so helpful and lots of info here. Much appreciated. 
One thing that might be a constraint is where we can park it where we live ...we do have a car port which has roller garage door and whilst it is possible to increase the height, the length is 5.9 m and width 2.4 m hence our less than 6m restriction.  We do have permit parking outside but bays are normal width and I have a feeling there may be some competition for space ...not sure we will always get a spot directly outside. Wondering how this affects insurance? Also a tad worried about how it will go down with neighbours. 
We will definitely make a list of ‘must haves’ as suggested and yes we do need to go to see and try some ie. Oaktree here in Notts ( if they have any!). We did look in a couple of retailers when open before but as pointed out they have very little in terms of smaller vans and in our price range. I must admit I do like the idea of a van with bed at rear ..not necessarily fixed ..but I think that means a van over 6 m. And yes the prices  are ridiculous at present but am not sure we can wait forever ...life is short etc. If I had a place to park that was large and secure I daresay I’d go for a bigger van!

The Warwick Duo or Sussex Duo have the bed(s) at the rear and are 5.9 metres long. Many on here own them, and worth a look. There are several on Autotrader (mainly the Warwick Duo).

bolero boy wrote:it's certainly possible to have a van (coachbuilt or PVC) with a fixed bed thats (just) under 6m..
the largest selling van (PVC) layout in Europe is just that...

i can sort of see the 'open rear doors' attraction, but if the weather is nice enough to have the doors open, then we would probably be sitting outside...and be able to position our chairs to make the most of the (moving) sunshine...

. Oooh which van is that please? 

Thank you Sally ..will have a look at those two models ...I like the look of them!

Aj200 wrote:... . If I had a place to park that was large and secure I daresay I’d go for a bigger van!

Have you considered keeping the van in a secure storage site, rather than at home? We have restricted parking at home too, so, that's what we do. Cheaper insurance too.

Aj200 wrote:

bolero boy wrote:it's certainly possible to have a van (coachbuilt or PVC) with a fixed bed thats (just) under 6m..
the largest selling van (PVC) layout in Europe is just that...

i can sort of see the 'open rear doors' attraction, but if the weather is nice enough to have the doors open, then we would probably be sitting outside...and be able to position our chairs to make the most of the (moving) sunshine...

. Oooh which van is that please? 

i answered the same question from Richard, upthread...
i said the best selling PVC van 'layout'. in Europe....a 6m PVC with rear transverse bed as in the Adria Twin SP.
As Andy mentions, the longitudinal twin bed version, the SL at 6.36m, is catching up fast as folk move more towards singles.
if youre interested in a fixed bed PVC (transverse or longitudinal) then id suggest checking out Adria, Globecar, Malibu, Pilote, Rapido etc...as this is a layout not often produced by UK converters.

Weegie wrote:

Aj200 wrote:... . If I had a place to park that was large and secure I daresay I’d go for a bigger van!

Have you considered keeping the van in a secure storage site, rather than at home? We have restricted parking at home too, so, that's what we do. Cheaper insurance too.

I thought secure storage might prove to be too expensive as we used one for a caravan when we lived in south. But good point and worth investigating. Thanks.