KINGHAM HEATING

JUST COMPLETED A 3 DAY JOB IMPROVING THE HEATING TO THE FRONT OF VAN AREA, AND BEFORE I SAY TOO MUCH ITS NOT A JOB FOR THE FAINT HEARTED BUT THE IMPROVEMENT WAS BRILLIANT ,
MOST VAN OWNERS KNOW HOW POOR OR NON EXISTENT THE HEATING IS AT THE FRONT SEATING AREA OF THE KINGHAM IS ,NOT SURPRISING WHEN YOU SEE THE PATHETIC SMALL PIPE RUNNING TO THE VENT THERE , I WONT GO INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL AND I FIND TRYING TO PUT PHOTOS ON THIS FORUM NOT EASY, THE LONG AND THE SHORT OF IT WAS THAT I MANAGED AND WITH A VERY DISCRETE TIDY JOB TO INSTALL 4 INCH INSULATED FLEXIBLE DUCTING (AROUND 15 QUID FOR 5 METRES)TO A ADJUSTABLE OUTLET (TOOLSTATION AROUND A FIVER )  FROM THE OUTLETS BY THE TRUMA HEATER TO A POSITION CLOSE TO THE LOWER CONTROL UNIT UNDER THE SEAT , THE WORK INVOLVED REMOVING THE FRIDGE STRIPPING OUT THE EXISTING DUCTING AND ENLARGING THE SEALED BOXING OVER IT AND RESEALING , OTHER AREAS OF WORK INVOLVED ENLARGING DUCTING OPENINGS AND MAKING LIGHTWEIGHT BOXING AROUND THE NEW DUCTING THE NEW DUCTING WAS RUN AT THE BACK OF THE SEATING AREA STORAGE AREA AROUND THE BACK OF THE BATTERY AND INSIDE TO THE LEFT OF THE ELECTRICAL BOX IN THE SEATING STORAGE AREA ,AS THE DUCTING WAS ALUMINIUM I WRAPED IT WITH DUCT TAPING WHEREVER IT WAS NEAR TO ANY ELECTRICS JUST IN CASE OF AN EXPOSED CABLE TO AVOID ANY CHANCE OF A SHORT

 WE PUT THE HEATING ON YESTERDAY AND THE DIFFERENCE WAS UNBELIEVABLE SO EVEN ACROSS THE VAN, AND WHEN THE HEATER FAN REDUCED AS THE TEMPERATURE ROSE , THE WARM AIR EXITING THE NEW OUTLET WAS AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN THE FLOW FROM THE OUTLETS UNDER THE BED , AS I STATED IT IS AN INVOLVED JOB BUT WORTH DOING IF YOU FEEL CONFIDENT

Hi treetops,
now that sounds a lot of work but also "a lot better".
interested to see your photos like other kingham owners will also.
photos attached using fourth icon from right , etc etc, details are here at top of forum I think.
PS. was told once in my early years using the Internet that using capital letters as your font setting was equal too SHOUTING.
not a problem for me but some might "tut" etc. I bet your well pleased to have improved your heating issues, well done.

Where's the heater located on a Kingham?

In my Stanway PVC the heater is located right at the very back of the vehicle and the vents in the middle of the van suffer a similar lack of power.

(there are no vents in the front at all)

Fully agree the Kingham heating in the cab end is worse than useless, we use an oil filled radiator when its cold but obviously no good if not on hookup. Would certainly be interested in any supporting photos you can upload. I've toyed with some way of increasing airflow from the heater up front for some time but shied away so far (had the van for 6 years!!!) being cautious about the need to remove the fridge.

RogerThat wrote:Where's the heater located on a Kingham?

In my Stanway PVC the heater is located right at the very back of the vehicle and the vents in the middle of the van suffer a similar lack of power.

(there are no vents in the front at all)

it's under the bed right at the back of the van.

I love the idea of swapping out the ducts to improve the heating at the front ( which is genuinely bad).  Thanks, will add this to the project list!  :-)

"it's under the bed right at the back of the van."


I actually looked (hard) at the Kingham when it first came out...but the poorly located Truma Combi, which obliterated any decent rear underbed storage and was sited so far back it was never going to be able to heat the front of the van especially with those thin sections.
If I was interested in a similar layout van now, then the Dreamer Select D62 shows how it can be (should have been) done...
First two photos the Kingham compromised 'boot' with no access, and the huge space available in the Dreamer...[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

wow.... what a difference.  I might take a look at whether I can do some work on my Kingham to sort the boot out as it's pretty inconvenient the way it's laid out at the moment and much of the ducting is really exposed to damage the way it comes as standard.

On our first Kingham I got Auto-Sleepers to move the truma heater to under the sofa to free up the underbed storage. I then boxed in and insulated the ducting under the bed and increased the ducting size to the washroom. It really worked well apart from a cold spot while sitting in the cab seats so I managed to fit another outlet to the side of the drivers seat box.

We have now got a 2021 Kingham with the Whale underfloor Heat Air system which we find nowhere near as good as the Truma despite insulating the ducting. We tried to get the Truma fitted at they refused
saying that the Whale worked better in the cold chamber,

Considering removing the Whale and fitting the Truma as in our previous van.

Original post photos would be good to see.

That layout makes much more sense as it is not the easiest place to get to anyway. under the Sofa that is.
Brilliant!

I was never happy with the Whale Heat Air in our Kingham despite lagging all the ducting the lounge never toasty. After trying out the Whale heater one night with the outside temperature down to -3 degrees I finally decided to change it for the Truma. As in previous posts our 2014 kingham had the Truma under the sofa which worked perfectly. So two weeks ago out came the whole Whale system (now on ebay) and in went the Truma under the sofa. A lot of work but is a huge improvement. It now runs 6 outlets, as previous van, washroom, under sofa, 2 under bed, o/s/f seat base and under table mount. This makes the lounge the warmest part and very quick to heat up. As in one of the owners previous posts I had to enlarge the box behind the fridge for the ducting, I managed to do this through the fridge vent hole, not easy!! The holes in the floor were plated and undersealed, chequered plate fitted over the floor where the boiler was removed, water pipes re-routed and boxed in against toilet wall. New trim panel made for the missing one behind the old Whale boiler and insulated as there was very little insulation there. That side of the bed always felt cold. Hot air ducts insulated and routed round the top of the fibreglass bed base and the wheel arch boxed in. The Truma combi went in under the sofa and linked to the adjacent gas tap, frost control and gas drop outs fitted. Auto-Sleepers supplied new control panel surround with the Truma control cut out, vent grille for under sofa front panel and matching lining fabric for the rear trim panel. Wiring was easy using the existing mains and 12 volt from the Whale and control panel wiring run under floor behind cab seats and up the n/s B pillar. It was always a possibility that we would do this and asked Auto-Sleepers not to fit the manual water filler which would prevent fitting the combi. The whole sofa base had to come out to drill the hole for the flue, luckily the blanked off hole in the side trim panel for the water filler was in the right place for the flue pipe. Took a lot of measuring and courage to drill the large hole in the metal side of the van!! Finally signed off gas and electric tests and looking forward to better wether to try it out for real. 


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Wow, that is an extensive and well engineered mod. 

Did you get any indication from AS that they might follow your lead? I guess they fit the systems they do largely on economic grounds. At least they were happy to work with you, even if just on the periphery.

Tim

We tried to get the van with the Truma under the sofa as they had done on our previous van and Auto-Sleepers agreed at the NEC. When it came to ordering it they said no, after a lot of discussion between the very helpful manager at Marquis they agreed to supply the van with no heating at a reduced cost. During lock down we had a meeting at the factory and found out that they couldn't supply the van with no heating because of the certificate of conformancey and registration. They tried to convince us that it was a better system when tested in the cold chamber but I was not convinced. Anyway we agreed to try it which we did, the boiler worked really well but the space heater did not suit the our layout, we wanted the max heat in the lounge not in the bedroom/washroom area. The control panel was no match for the Truma, no timer settings and a bar graph for the temperature, no degree settings.
It seems Auto-Sleepers are dead set on fitting the Whale to the van conversions, I can see the space saving advantages especially in the smaller vans but it must be more efficient for the heat loss from the heater to be inside and not underneath.

timsurf2021 wrote:
It seems Auto-Sleepers are dead set on fitting the Whale to the van conversions, I can see the space saving advantages especially in the smaller vans but it must be more efficient for the heat loss from the heater to be inside and not underneath.

Your DIY skills are admirable, well done.

I too much prefer the Truma to the new Whale heater.  If there is a problem then I would prefer to be looking at something inside the van rather than underneath it, seem to be similarities with the Whale submersible pumps that AS fit where again I prefer an internal Shurflo to an external Whale submersible.
Also I prefer the Truma control panel, I think Whale do a deluxe control panel with a temperature setting but AS don't offer it.

I would like AS to offer alternatives to both Whale and Sargent as options.

This new heater together with a couple of other things has made me start to compile a list of alternatives to AS for my next PVC, something unthinkable a few years ago.  Most of the alternatives are not British.

timsurf2021 wrote:I can see the space saving advantages especially in the smaller vans but it must be more efficient for the heat loss from the heater to be inside and not underneath.

I think AS mounted the Truma inside a tight enclosed box in the Kingham which meant it could overheat sometimes.  I suppose that won't happen with the new Whale.