New auto trail explorer

Just had an email from auto trail advertising their new explorer model anybody seen one in the flesh? Layout seems to suit us and the price £36995 is low for a new van so I might be tempted any thoughts?

I think you mean the Expedition 66.

It's a very interesting camper.  Cab is pretty well equipped (140Bhp, aircon etc) but no radio, reversing camera or reversing sensors.  Alloys are extra, as are cab blinds.

The habitation area is fairly basic.  No electric step.  no TV aerial.  no solar.  no awning.  Fewer 12v/USB sockets than you might expect.  Small oven/no microwave.  

Front bumper is black, rather than painted.  But as the Expedition is only available in black, that probably doesn't matter.    

70 litre water and waste tanks, but only 60 litre diesel tank.

All in all, an interesting back to basics camper - and the other end of the spectrum to the AS offerings.

I posted about it earlier in the month....

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It’s reviewed in latest, November, MMM

Solaris wrote:It’s reviewed in latest, November, MMM

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Auto Trial are the other outfit that use Sargent electrics so they lose a point for that.

Autotrail now have 4 ranges of PVC...from Expedition, through V-line S, V-line SE, Adventure...just shows the popularity of campervans these days...
starting prices vary from £36,995 to £56,745 so a £20k variance.
there is some pretty stiff competition at the lowend now with Eldiss starting to benefit from parent Hymer and lots of Continental sub brands (Sunlight, Carado etc) looking hard for a bigger slice of the UK market...its a pretty crowded sector....

AutoSleepy_Don wrote:Auto Trial are the other outfit that use Sargent electrics so they lose a point for that.

Which Sargent model are you so displeased with?

I have EC500 and it has always behaved since 2016. Where you just unlucky and got a bad one?
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Richard

rgermain wrote:

AutoSleepy_Don wrote:Auto Trial are the other outfit that use Sargent electrics so they lose a point for that.

Which Sargent model are you so displeased with?

I have EC500 and it has always behaved since 2016. Where you just unlucky and got a bad one?
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Richard

Mine also Richard, It’s worked fine but I’ve probably cursed it now 

Having rented an Autotrail van, one of their Tribute range, we saw little in it to be impressed with after 7 weeks of using it. The habitation lacked design flair, looked utilitarian and felt tacky. 

It was acceptable for a rental but not to own.

Tim

the Tribute range and the model that has replaced it (Expedition) are at the low end of the PVC market and have a £20k disadvantage on a typical AS version, so will undoubredly appear downmarket in quite a few areas.
the layouts dont appeal to me but, as mentioned above, there ks currently a big hole between the VW campers and the £60k As price leaders.
converters are falling over themselves in the rush to fill this gap with 6m Sevel vans at £38k plus prices....while perhaps not appealing to a typical AS owner, they're selling like hotcakes to buyers who get a shiny new van when they might otherwise have plumped for a used coachbuilt...

What is interesting being a ex-Tribby owner a 2005 which was that they have dropped the Campervan conversions on which the name was built. 
Would I have a tribby campervan again well not the newer ones but the 550 and 650 and pre 2007 were good vans quite well made simple design long bench seat opposite the door with single seat that made another single or double, diesel heating, and a decent kitchen, fridge and cooking. 
We move on and I think that Auto-trail lost sight of why people bought a Tribby.

Horses for courses for example we have never really wanted a coachbuilt although we did look at loads each time we changed.

Kemerton-bath wrote:Having rented an Autotrail van, one of their Tribute range, we saw little in it to be impressed with after 7 weeks of using it. The habitation lacked design flair, looked utilitarian and felt tacky. 

It was acceptable for a rental but not to own.

Tim

I just don't like the Caravan plastic type windows, look cheap and other things. 

Could live without the Radio in the Duo, I have never turned it on since finding out it cuts out after 20 mins.
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Richard

I think Autosleepers have done well at positioning themselves as the top brand, with very impressive specifications.  An AS PVC is a very nice place to be.

AS need to get a grip on minor assembly niggles though.  There are too many instances of things going wrong that would cost pennies to get right in production - carpets coming loose around windows, taps working loose, kitchen sink drains coming detached, water ingress caused by rear door seals not being replaced properly.  And they need to fit a solar system/electrics system which works better.

I think AutoTrail now have too many offerings - Expedition, S, SE, Sport and Adventurer.  But kudos to them for pushing the market boundaries.

RE: the AT range size....i think their V-line ranges continue to do what they previously did in the range....make a reasonable fist of mixing it in the UK middle market...
but things are changing rapidly....
the Continental big players have 'invented' the sub brand (see Carado at Hymer, Sunlight at Dethleffs, Sun Living at Adria etc) which are giving younger home customers the 'brand' experience at low prices...
i think AT (part of Trigano group) are well aware of the direction things (mass market) are moving and it aint towards the £70k PVC, hence the Expedition....AS has no offering other than those with prices heading the 'wrong way'.
also, with the Adventure, AT have latched on quickly to the 'latest' trend of easily providing a four berth PVC withput cramping the accommodation, stick the bed upstairs á la VW pop tops.
AS has a place in the market, it sells 'motorhome of excellence' and this has carried it along allowing prices to be at the very top end.
...but markets change and the speed of change in the MH market towards PVCs and especially lower priced ones is very apparent in Europe....AT and others (the sub brands above) are vying hard for their slice of this over here.
its all change in Europe, even 'luxury' European brands (N+B, Carthago, Hymer) are marketing sub brands....to catch the wind...
will/can AS react....do they? perhaps, perhaps not?

Thanks for all the input about the expedition from auto trail. It seems a good deal for the price but restrictions over COVID and brexit makes me think about hanging on to the old talisman for anther year or so and getting the welding done on the front suspension tops in the new year( the advisory on last mot )

Whether you spend £37k or £65k, it's still based on a 15-year old design of Peugeot/Fiat van.

I'd love the major manufacturers to move to a more modern base vehicle.

VW Crafter/MAN TGE? reputedly the best driving PVC on tne market.
Merc Sprinter?
Renault Master?

Yes, the Sevel van came out in late 2006 but, following several updates, its still a blooming good all round (drive, cost, economy, space, service, reliability) base for a MH, hence its dominance/popularity.

I ran auto trail coach build for ten years before moving to autosleeper Warwick XL when I change it will be back to autotrail I find the back on warranty  far better (two claims on warwick both refused)

well, if youre moving brands but sticking to a PVC the world is definitely your oyster in the current market...much more choice than between the two marques you mention...in all sections of the market.
some Continental brands are even built at the AT Grimsby factory....Benimar, Chausson for example....all pretty much the same vans.
however, plenty of far more innovative vans around these days...Dreamer (from Rapido), Knaus, Westfalia and some real quality stuff from Adria, Malibu (from Carthago) etc.
as above, just a huge choice out there.

bolero boy wrote:however, plenty of far more innovative vans around these days...Dreamer (from Rapido), Knaus, Westfalia and some real quality stuff from Adria, Malibu (from Carthago) etc.
as above, just a huge choice out there.

At the risk of resurrecting a well rehearsed debate between British panel van conversions and those from continental Europe, the innovation you refer to is all within broadly the same overall layout coming from Knaus, Adria, et al.  By which I refer to a rear fixed or semi-fixed bed(s) at the rear, a cramped half-dinette at the front with severe upright seating and a tiny galley that's more in name than function. Fine for making breakfast but no good for anything requiring an oven or grill.

We walked through, stepped in or peered into every single PVC exhibited at the Düsseldorf show last October. There are dozens of them, far more than on offer here, but we got bored at seeing this same layout repeated on all vans.  Sure, there was innovation in things like lighting and stowage, but at the bigger picture level of overall layout - nothing, just the same old formulaic approach.  Moreover, on opening a few lockers and unlatching several shower screens in these vans, they didn't feel particularly resilient or hard-wearing. The only thing that was strikingly better was the amount of insulation, aimed at enabling vans to be used in the ski season.

The fact remains that we use our vans very differently in UK.  Colder and wetter weather forces us inside more, we have fewer on-site cafes and bistros, and less of an eating-out culture.  All of which is reflected in better equipped kitchen areas and cosier lounges.  Layouts are subjective, of course, but a potential buyer in UK needs to consider how a PVC is going to perform on a site with minimal facilities (e.g. a CS/CL type of site), in wet and/or cold weather, and with no pub in the village in which to eat or seek refuge.  I suspect our friends on the continent wouldn't put up with that, but we usually have to!

Tim

K-B I’m in complete agreement with you but BB makes some valid points.

My thoughts.... UK designs (that I am very much in favour of) with some of the European innovations that the UK for some reason seem to lag well behind on.

iTim, i agree with your 'UK weather' comments and that everyone has personal layout preferences....im not a fan of rear lounge panel vans of any brand...but these are my reasons and are as valid as anyones who doesnt partake of a typical Euro fixed bed 6m version....
...but that was not my point....i was talking about true innovation from companies like Dreamer...
check out the drop down bed in the Camper van XL....looks like a transverse coachbuilt type dropdown but extends into the cab to make a logitudinal double like a top line A-class...
..or their D62 and see a different (decent rear boot storage area) take on the Kingham...
...or the Living Van with a rear lounge like many AS/AT models but with a drop down bed to accommodate two more passengers rather than the dinette in (say) the Fairford which wastes the cab space....
the Living Van provides a 'cosier' (IMV) rear lounge than the Fairford, a far better front bed, still incorporates the comfortable cab seats into the dining area and has a split-across-the aisle bathroom with seperate shower in the centre of the van....so, a similar van...but someone has looked very hard at how to make it better and innovative..
this is nothing to do brand preference or not, nor criticising any brand, AT, AS or others, merely (on my part) an acknowledement, and admiration, of how far some companies are prepared to go to 'be better'...
Some are digging deep into design and technology to improve their ranges, others are happy to add a new upholstery colour or add a gadget, like Motorhomewifi, to the spec..
only my opinion, but as valid as anyone elses?

The split washroom was around in caravans years ago BB. It was a bit of a pain tbh as it left the toilet compartment far too small unless you faffed around with using both doors to partition off the van. Perhaps that's why it was dropped.

I guess you have to accept that some of us love rear lounges and hate the forward variety which use the cab while others accept that the reverse is true for some folk.

i have acknowleded that different folk prefer different layouts, my earlier post was to acknowledge that the PVC market is very volatile and that some companies are working very hard to innovate, providing (improved) variations on layouts...and that todays choice (even for a uk customer) isnt just between AS and AT...
as Tim replied with his opinion, i felt it polite to respond further.
yes, layout is a very personal thing and you choose what works best for yourself...but raising awareness of 'whats out there' isnt a crime is it?