Nearly Gassed by AS Service Centre

steamdrivenandy wrote:Kaspian, it is surely worse than that, A/S don't really need feedback via social media, though it might be a useful adjunct. Most of the issues mentioned and plenty of others are sorted out via warranty claims from dealers. They are directly traceable to a VIN/build number and surely the factory's computerised build records will tell them when and who fitted the relevant part. The warranty claims should be able to be analysed at the press of a key to tell them which parts fail most and from that they can develop training plans, improved techniques, different part sources, bulletins to dealers for issues to watch for and in dire situations, total recalls.

 If I was a manufacturer I would want all that and more and I would make sure it was high profile within  the business and in my marketing. That way you build a quality reputation and buyers appreciate it.

Not many years ago I remember writing that we would always report faults and niggles to AS as we hoped they, as a reputable business, would use the information to track and correct poor workmanship or design. I hoped others would do this too. The overwhelming response was that most on here would not, preferring to simply fix the fault themselves.

I believe that GasSafe regulations only apply to gas installations in buildings, but that the caravan industry and presumably motorhomes follow the same regs and fitters etc are trained and qualified to the same regs. Surely a poor and potentially unsafe installation as described in the OP is a potential criminal case under health and safety legislation if nothing else.

Andy , agree 100% and have said exactly that in the past  when we suffered build ' quality ' issues.  At all stages of build work should be signed off and checked by another party who co signs creating a paper trail that can be followed  .  That way stupid errors are hopefully picked up before moving to the next stage.  
       Agree Quilter, too many just put up , shut up and fix build issues in their '  sheds'  I too was laughed at when  I suggested taking issues collectively to management but being faced with a £3 K repair bill to remedy poor build  focused the mind somewhat at that time...

The regulations are for our safety  if fitted to a house mobile home camper so they should be but are clearly not

kaspian wrote:Andy , agree 100% and have said exactly that in the past  when we suffered build ' quality ' issues.  At all stages of build work should be signed off and checked by another party who co signs creating a paper trail that can be followed  .  That way stupid errors are hopefully picked up before moving to the next stage.  
       Agree Quilter, too many just put up , shut up and fix build issues in their '  sheds'  I too was laughed at when  I suggested taking issues collectively to management but being faced with a £3 K repair bill to remedy poor build  focused the mind somewhat at that time...

I confess to being a "fixer", but of course Kaspian is absolutely right in principle. 

Before I realised it was a waste of breath (about 5 years ago) I was speaking to one of the directors at Willersey and the topic of warranty work came up.

I asked why they didn't employ one of their recently retired old boys on a part time basis to mooch around completed vans, actively searching for faults. These could then be fixed before the van was released.

The response was surprising, to say the least!!! Apparently it costs less to fix faults under warranty than to ensure they are not there in the first place!!   

I didn't believe it then, and I still don't, but I really can't work out how that attitude can possibly achieve anything but a bad reputation for the firm.

In 2007 we bought a brand new Bessacarr. Apart from being one of the first with an X250 cab, any faults in which were attributed by Fiat to the owners, we had pages and pages of problems with the rest of the van. These ranged from niggles to the need for a complete new roof and hab door. We nearly lost the van altogether when the bed slats, which were fitted so they pushed the improperly fitted Truma heater underneath down, started to char.

When, eventually, after lots of stress and angst, all was sorted I suggested to Swift that they openly monitor the owner's forum and that they invite owners to the factory to comment on design, to give advice as users and to look out for pre-delivery issues. They did both of these things, having a member of staff on the forum to whom one could turn with problems and asking groups- especially women - to the factory.

It might be wishful thinking but Swift's fortunes looked up from that time.

Quilter wrote:In 2007 we bought a brand new Bessacarr. Apart from being one of the first with an X250 cab, any faults in which were attributed by Fiat to the owners, we had pages and pages of problems with the rest of the van. These ranged from niggles to the need for a complete new roof and hab door. We nearly lost the van altogether when the bed slats, which were fitted so they pushed the improperly fitted Truma heater underneath down, started to char.

We had the same, Quilter, a 2007 Bessacarr on the new X250. Both the Fiat and the hab unit were riddled with faults. Customer care from both companies was almost non-existent. Eventually we cut our losses and sold it and swore never again to buy another Swift product or a Fiat. We've stuck to the former but it's very difficult to avoid Sevel vans and I have to say the X290 is a vast improvement on its earlier relative.

Compared to that experience, the quality issues in the AS vans we've had, although inexcusable, have been less of a problem. We collect our new one next week so watch this space!

Thank you everyone for your feedback and good wishes.

Here’s a brief update......

I called the Service Centre at 09.01 this morning and asked to speak to the service manager. I said at the outset that I wished to make a serious complaint relating to safety. 

Apparently the manager was talking to another customer so I waS asked to explain the gist of the issue. The secretary listened patiently and said she hoped he would call me back later today. I was somewhat taken aback and said I hoped I would be top of his list when he finished with the other customer.

Well an hour later and the phone hasn’t rung yet. Perhaps more pressing issues than venting exhaust into the cabin are taking priority.

They should have been all over this within minutes.

Pester power works wonders Howie.

Ask our dog . . . it never fails!   

I blinked first and called the main AS switchboard and said I wanted to speak to the MD (knew that would be unlikely but worth a shot).
After listening to my complaint the switchboard said they’d put me through to the service centre 🤬

‘No, I want to complain about the service centre - there’s no point putting me through to them again! Can you put me through to customer services then?’

I was told that Alan is both customer service manager and service centre manager - so self policing. All roads lead to Alan.

I suggested that I should speak to the director / manager responsible for the service centre - the lady on the switchboard didn’t know who that would be!

So I asked to speak to the MD’s PA and was immediately transferred to Carol in the service centre ‍�

Carol told me that Alan was fully aware of my call but he’s a very busy man and he’d get back to me when time permitted.

Give me strength 

Blood pressure is now off the scale!

Yes Alan Curry is acting as service manager and is customer services manager. He did both roles after Mark Burdett left (get him back at whatever salary it takes!) until Victoria Gaye came but now she's left as well (thank goodness in my opinion).
Dave Williams (sales director) is approachable, maybe worth giving him a try after giving Alan time to respond.

HowieT wrote:

Blood pressure is now off the scale!

I’m sure you are doing this but, in case not, keep a blow by blow account of who said what to whom with times and dates. If you have to go back to Willersey or the dealer then note milage, use of car if involved and any other expenses incurred. 

I found it useful in keeping track of all the dealings we had with Swift and Fiat and managed to recover mileage costs and storage charges for the van contents when it had to go, empty, back to Hull.

Not sure if Geoff Scott and Mike Crouch are still the main men, seem to remember I managed to contact Mike Crouch some while ago. Really feel for you and we should all put our shoulders to helping on such a serious issue. Why does no one from A/S monitor this forum or if they do take any notice of it?
As I have said many times apart from a few early teething issues the build of our Worcester has been equal to any other motorhome I have looked at and better than most but that doesn't mean A/S should be allowed to get away with incidents such as this. Most of these reported issues seem to be on new vans, that fact could not have passed A/S by surely.

Keep up the fight!

Don't know if this will help.

I agree with Hog. In this case it's not A/S you are after, but one rogue employee who needs to be shown the door!!

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I would assume that all key posts are now held by Trigano placemen/women.

I suspect not Trigano are majority shareholders only

Here’s a further update........

Just finished a 40 minute call with Alan Currie, the service centre Manager.

To be fair he handled the call well. Alan is GasSafe qualified so was able to give an expert opinion.

Alan listened to my complaint and asked many questions about the installation and the issues I’d uncovered. 

To his credit, he made no excuses for the problems we’d encountered and agreed that the fitting mistakes were inexcusable. He’d done his research before calling and identified the personnel involved. There will be a full drains up investigation - I feel confident that this will happen.

AS will find an early time slot to get my van into the workshop.

Some interesting points were made during our conversation.

Apparently the fridge burner is rated at 0.2Kw max compared to a hob burner which is 1.5-2.0Kw, so although unpleasant it’s like leaving a hob on low overnight. The vans have a degree of ventilation that would make the health risks low even with roof lights closed. Surprised to learn that older motorhomes didn’t bother to seal the fridges from the habitation area as is the norm now.

So to cut to the chase, AS we’re apologetic, will correct the fault, take steps to avoid a repetition and will cover my costs of trip abandonment and additional fuel usage.

I’m happy that they’ve stepped up to the plate.

Blood pressure now returning to acceptable levels.

Thank you all for your interest and support

Good - restores a little faith. Let's hope they fit you in soon and you can get back to enjoying the van.

I agree that vans have plenty of fixed ventilation, provided it hasn't been intentionally or accidentally blocked off. 

Not sure if any fridges now have the narrow tubular dedicated gas burner flue that runs up to one side of the top grille vent. That meant that the exhaust gases were sealed away from the air exchange cavity at the rear of the fridge and there was no chance of the remnants of combustion entering the van interior, even if it wasn't sealed all round. Still let the draught in when windy though.

Well done excellent news.

A very good outcome

Well done, and from past experience of dealing with Alan Currie, I would say he's as good as his word. He's a nice bloke too, and very approachable, but I wouldn't want to be the useless pillock who fitted (!!) your fridge. 

Please let us know the final outcome. Making the cock up is not the most important aspect of this situation, it's bound to happen now and again!

How it is dealt with is what really matters!

Dave

Perhaps when working on safety items like gas and electrics a co sign off would ensure issues are likely to be picked up before leaving the workshop. Ie you sign off your work and someone checks and agrees by signing off too.
        A bit like tyre fitters who torque wheel bolts then get a workmate to check and agree torque figures are met for safety. At least in this case he held his hands up and resolved the issue , perhaps realising that  ' lawyers for you ' would love this case!   ££££££!

Excellent news and is similar to the way in which a big issue that occurred on my new van was handled in 2012.
Thanks for telling us it is being handled satisfactorily.

HowieT 
Was the person doing the work qualified 
And what Alan said about the burner only been  .2kw makes no difference 
The fridges that had not been seal on older caravans camper had its own separate flue outlet that could no longer be used after I think it was Electrolux had it copyrighted so then with the flue coming out the top vent ment the fridge now had to be fully sealed so what the regulations are with a flue coming out a set distance Away from been able to enter in to the caravan motorhome did not req them been sealed so Alan’s talk here to calm you down would have got myself even more upset.when people start giving you talk like this you pass the phone to a qualified person 
It’s good to here it sounds like they are going to sort the fault