Nearly Gassed by AS Service Centre

FYI All Service Centre Customers......

The Thetford fridge in our 2017 Warwick XL was trouble from day one and hyper sensitive to any pitch that wasn’t totally level on all planes. Moving two or tree inches on a seemingly level field would be the difference between working or cutting out, even though a spirit level check gave the same readings in multiple locations. Final straw last September when racing my classic car in France - 28C and no fridge for the duration of our trip. 

The N3000 series has a pretty digital display but not the ability to show if it’s working or not - it gets warm in all the right places, however you have to wait to see if the ice creams start to flow out of the freezer to verify it’s operating status.

I called AS Service Centre from France and they said it was probably overheating but no cure suggested - they’d already told me that on previous visits and sold me a dual fan kit to mitigate that possibility! 

Thetford UK however were very helpful and ran through some diagnostic tests with me. It seemed likely that either the compressor or the thermistor were at fault - on their advice I disconnected the latter to see if that worked. It didn’t - so a duff compressor. They agreed to order a new fridge from Holland and get AS Service Centre to fit it under warranty at the end of last year. Phew, just scraped inside the 3 year warranty period and the new one was circa £1,000

The service centre is very disorganised these days and they seemed to forget about the job and failed to progress the delivery of the replacement fridge. I stepped in and eventually got AS and Thetford to track down the missing box  (think the production line commandeered it!)

So yet another 3 hour round trip to Willersey to have the fridges swopped.

Due to onset of winter followed by the the lockdown, the new fridge remained untested until I got the van prepped for our first outing this year. I ran the fridge for 48 hours before we left and tested various elevations in our sloping driveway - it worked! Happy days. We noticed a slight acrid smell but assumed this was new materials getting hot for the first time, like a new oven, and this would soon disappear.

We arrived on a nice quiet site yesterday evening and looked forward to a pleasant few days away from our home. The acrid smell lingered longer than I’d expected but was less noticeable with the roof vents open 
and the fridge vent extraction fans set manually to ‘on’. 

We walked a lot before hitting the sack and were soon in the land of Nod. Early this morning we woke up feeling a little groggy with croaky throats and sounding like Bernard Manning. It soon clicked - that dammed fridge. The fridge fits pretty snugly into the kitchen furniture however there’s a small gap between the worktop and the top of the fridge cabinet - the smell was definitely coming through that slot.

I turned the fridge off and went out to check the vents armed with a download of the installation instructions on my phone. On removal Of the vent grills, it became clear what was causing the issue. 

The fridge exhaust is supposed to exit via the top vent in the van bodywork. The fumes generated are never supposed to enter the habitation (obvs) so Thetford supply a flimsy aluminiumised cardboard heat shield to seal the top of the fridge to the outside vent surround - various other self-adhesive rubber strips are used to seal the rest of the gaps around the fridge chassis. The instructions on this are quiet clear.

It appears that a lazy / poorly trained / unsupervised / overworked fitter had avoided fitting any of the new sealing parts supplied with the replacement fridge. From what I can see, the old heat shield and seals were left in situ and the new fridge shoved back into the void. The result was that the old rubber seals were loose on the floor and the heat shield / seal had been crushed between the back of the new fridge and the external vent grills. This ensured that ALL fumes could only vent around the body of the fridge and into the habituation area. The perfect gassing storm.

The fitter would have removed both the external body vent panels to connect the gas and electrics and was presumably fully aware of the shoddy and dangerous work he’d done.  

Bear in mind these are the same ‘experts’ that do your habitation so-called safety checks, hold a Thetford Premiere agent status and are accredited by the NCC to maintain your camper or caravan.

Not prepared to suffer the consequences of unknown noxious fumes, we abandoned our trip and headed home. I made a Heath Robinson repair using the bits of old shield in the void behind the fridge and gaffer taped a rough seal - it improved things, however it really needed the whole new seal kit that AS service Centre presumably chucked away rather than fit.

So we lost our prepaid site fees, burnt / lacerated my hands on the fridge workings and suffered an epic fail to our first outing of 2020.

Looking forward to speaking with AS management, Thetford and the NCC to see what quality controls should have been in place to safeguard customer safety.

Disgraceful workmanship. If you use them, I suggest you thoroughly check what they say they’ve done.

I hope you took photo of the shoddy install , do you have a carbon monoxide sensor in the van as surely that should have sounded , I would be kicking up a right stink (excuse ) with them and try to claim back all expenses, keep us informed

We had a related problem which resulted in overheating and the acrid smell. 

The heat shield had been installed incorrectly on top of the fridge despite the installation instructions saying it should be fitted to the underside of the worktop, not the top of the fridge. 

It was rectified by the dealer under warranty and there’s been no problem since.

Very scary, lucky you actually woke up and are able to complain. Could have been a very different story.

Thank you for the feedback. I’ll let you know what responses I get. I’ll be on the phone as soon as they open today.

This is interesting. We purchased an AS last year, our first ever British built ‘van in over 25 years. We’ve always had Hymers so you can imagine our disappointment at the build quality. We’ve had; waste pipe falling off the tank, lining coming away around the windows, loose step frame, gas pipe to fridge leaking, constant rattle under the van (can’t find it) & the most useless reversing camera I’ve ever seen. All this on a 2018 model.  I don’t think AS even have a quality control department.

Careful Womble, youre treading a fine line....
heretics get burnt at the stake on this forum...

bolero boy wrote:Careful Womble, youre treading a fine line....
heretics get burnt at the stake on this forum...

I think there's a difference in principle between an A/S owner coming onto this forum and stating their experiences, and a Carthago owner coming onto this forum and commenting about quality control on a make of van that they don't own.

Roopert, ive been in very many AS vans (probably more than most on this forum) and base on my investigations and the repeating themes of posts here its not that difficult to get an overall impression of 'quality' and to understand the specific root cause problems we so regularly see on here...

ive had much experience of Thetford, Dometic, Sargent, Truma kit, along with solar installs on four vans, two British and two German, so i know how how the different 'styles/priorities' work..

my beef is that, when it costs the same to do something properly as to do it poorly, why are so many prepared to accept the latter?

i enjoy your technical posts but there is a bigger picture here and its regularly commented on....

I have no doubt that you have plenty of experience of camper vans.

What I don't understand is what motivates you - as someone who doesn't own an A/S product - to come onto a forum which is self-evidently for A/S owners, and post a deliberately provocative statement such as "heretics get burnt at the stake on this forum".

Actions like that seem to align with the definition of a forum troll.

[url=/u24]Paulmold[/url], [url=/u7574]willy eckerslike[/url] and [url=/u12658]Tinwheeler[/url] like this post.....no surprises there!

Roopert wrote:I have no doubt that you have plenty of experience of camper vans.

What I don't understand is what motivates you - as someone who doesn't own an A/S product - to come onto a forum which is self-evidently for A/S owners, and post a deliberately provocative statement such as "heretics get burnt at the stake on this forum".

Actions like that seem to align with the definition of a forum troll.

i posted it because that is what happened to me this morning, and on lots of other day that i post....but, hey ho...
...and 'what morivates me' is that have an an interest in issues with the branded kit i mentioned above, and have plenty of help to give....i post objectively but even that help is seen as invalid by the Junta as it 'doesnt apply' to AS vans which is plainly not always true..
fortunately there are plenty of decent posters on the forum who have PM'd me to despair (one for Peter) at the 'treatment' i regularly receive despite my objectivity...thise who see this as their personal feifdom and who get upset when an interloper dares to 'muscle in'.
i tend to think that persistent nastiness (some might say bullying) of any particular poster is far worse 'forum behaviour'....
me, a troll, i think not....look far closer to home.

As far as I can recall, I've not criticised you before on this forum. But your behaviour is marking you out as someone who just wants to provoke other people and cause trouble.

Your contribution to this thread seems to be typical. You have contributed nothing of any use to anyone here by saying "heretics get burnt at the stake on this forum...". Your comment is clearly intended to annoy people rather than help in any way at all.

I won't often say this of another forum user, but in this case I would be more than happy to see you leave the forum and not return.

Howie, if that were me I would be consulting a solicitor on that serious an issue, it could have killed you.  I would advise A/S that unless they suggest immediate compensatory action you will make a claim against them. I am one of the first to support A/S here because the product I have enjoyed has been good but in a case like this they need more than a wrist slap. Good luck.

well thanks for that, Roopert..what a heartwarming post..
...i told you upthread why i commented as i did..
perhaps you cant recognise a slightly light hearted remark as just that...
as one poster so nicely put it to me the other day (neatly in the third person) i paraphrase...
"if Xxx thinks that remark is intended to annoy people....he needs to grow a pair"....
yes, i thought it was charming, too...but the 'mods' thought this was perfectly acceptable forum behaviour.
im sorry you seem upset, certainly not my intention but you've formed an opinion and expressed it...that's your prerogative. 
however, its only a forum for exchanging views, not real life.

I would like to make the comment that I don’t currently own a AS make van but over the past 39 years motorcaravanning have owned a total of 11 AS vans (& a lot of other makes). I follow this forum due to my interest in the brand & possible future purchase.
My comment from owning a 2011 Warwick Duo & a 2014 Warwick XL is that AS don’t make a good job of sealing the fridges into the opening. Hence on a windy day draughts can be felt entering the van via the top & bottom external vents & coming out all around the fridge edges & in adjacent cupboards. It’s probably a difficult job to get a good seal between the furniture, fridge body & the metal shaped side of the van on a van conversion. I currently own a Swift rear lounge panel van & have had a few problems. On the Swift forum people are reporting a lot of problems / poor quality control. I also follow the Auto-Trail V-Line forum & they suffer loads of issues. I’m afraid it’s the norm that the vans are knocked together by probably lower paid less interested in the job employees of a company who is sales & profit driven. Shouldn’t be like that but it’s a sign of the times.

I have been active on this forum since one month after its inception and as far as I can tell only 7 people predate me as still fairly active. I was an Autosleeper owner, remain active and visit this forum several times each day. I post when I believe I have something useful to say about motorhoming and related subjects and occasionally on Rienza related queries if my memory is working, so I believe I have a fairly objective view of this forum.

I have 2 points to make, although groundhog has beaten me to my first. If the details Howie T posted are as he posted, and I have no reason to doubt his experiences, then I too believe that some form of legal action is required against the firm. Compensation does not need to be a driver, but the fact is that another person could suffer serious injury or death if this poor standard of workmanship is not strongly challenged.

My second point is endorse the perception that Bolero boy has voiced  with regard to some of the ‘masonic’ attitudes that some members appear to have towards other members or prospective members (although this aspect seems to have abated). Too often in the past, on what is usually one of the most friendly of the 9 Motorhome forums I frequent, a few members try to dictate what others can say or believe. I honesty cringe on occasions in the past at the attitudes of a few members.
I think, roopert, as a reasonably recent addition to the forum that your two personal attacks on Bolero boy in this thread are disappointing. 
I do not wish to engage in a tit for tat deterioration of this thread and will finish by stating that I thought long about this post, long before this personal attack by one member on another.

Davy

Aldercow wrote:I currently own a Swift rear lounge panel van & have had a few problems. On the Swift forum people are reporting a lot of problems / poor quality control. I also follow the Auto-Trail V-Line forum & they suffer loads of issues. I’m afraid it’s the norm that the vans are knocked together by probably lower paid less interested in the job employees of a company who is sales & profit driven. Shouldn’t be like that but it’s a sign of the times.

Regrettably, spot on Aldercow.

I'm generally quite supportive of A/S, but I've always thought they spoil a damn good van by lack of care and attention to detail, and more recently to penny pinching ways of saving twopence on a build.

As you so rightly say though, most of them are as bad as each other - which is a sad reflection on modern work ethics and attitudes. The whole world these days seems to revolve around profit, and when that involves paying a workforce the minimum possible they can get away with, the results are inevitable.

Dave

P.S. It was the waste pipe from the toilet sink last week. The splashing sound alerted me to the fact that it had fallen off.

It was quite difficult to replace since the rubber seal fitted very tightly onto the spigot - a clear indication that it had never been pushed on properly in the first place. Nothing serious, but annoying nonetheless.

Davy
if other A/S owners removed the fridge vents and look to see if the fridge is sealed as it should be even from new they would be shocked as I was and was not safe to use on gas with my van from new 
I might not think its right for someone that has not got a A/S van to be posting on this forum but like yourself  find it very disappointing at what had been said at Bolero Boy.
he is not breaking any forum rules so the few dictators will have to like it or stay away them self as I thought we are here to help each other

TeamRienza wrote:
I think, roopert, as a reasonably recent addition to the forum that your two personal attacks on Bolero boy in this thread are disappointing. 

I have to say that, as a very long standing member of this forum (since around 2012, IIRC), I don't feel any guilt, disappointment or regret about the comments I made above.

As I've pointed out, he is here on the AS Owners Forum even though he doesn't own an A/S product and if what he says is to be believed, he never has.

I stand by my assertion that his initial comment in this thread was of no help to anyone, and was deliberately designed to provoke other people here.

As I said earlier, this is the first time I have criticised his actions on this forum, and I most definitely would not be commenting on his trolling behaviour here if it weren't for the fact that he repeatedly posts petty, sniping comments about the A/S brand.

I have no wish to engage with Bolero Boy ever again on this forum, nor to contribute any further to this thread.

Actually he is breaking rules....
"
You may not use discussions to belittle other products or services, or any company unfairly or unjustifiably; This includes companies like Auto-Sleepers, Auto-Sleepers Owners Club, and includes (this forum) The Auto-Sleeper Owners Forum. Any post deemed inappropriate by a Moderator or Admin will be removed without notice or any warning or explanation."




I make use of the report button and I wish more members would do same when you see something inappropriate. . If you don't know where that is , it's the exclamation mark next to the 'quote' button. It can only be used once so if it's a different colour it has already been used by someone.

There is much I could add but will refrain from doing so for the sake of the forum but, believe me, Roopert is absolutely correct in his summary of the situation. The tactics here have been seen elsewhere.  I'll leave it at that.

I have personal experience on both of the quality issues referred to in the constructive part of this thread:
1: The sealing between fridge and inside of van on my vehicle is almost perfect. The only gap that is not sealed is between the cabinet wall and the plastic wheel arch where there is a 2mm gap. The top is sealed perfectly and we gat NO draughts at all coming between cabinet and fridge. That contrasts strongly with the fitting of the fridge in our previous Hymer where a gale blew through. However, that was a Dometic fridge which had a dedicated part of the vent for flue gases. That didn't help van temperature when it was windy.
2. Dave has mentioned waste pipe falling off the toilet sink. That has happened to me twice. First time I pushed it back onto the spigot and it stayed for the next 7 years. Second time was a couple of weeks ago when I think that I disturbed it when fitting some pipe insulation to reduce transmitted pump noise. That pipe is vulnerable as it is flexed every time the cleverly thought out swing wall is moved. I have now put a cable tie round the pipe where it fits into the rubber spigot which, as Dave says, is a tight fit onto the sink waste fitting.

As a general comment, my Hymer had better waste fittings which incorporated traps on sinks and the shower. I wish I could find a source for them.

Finally, I become increasingly despondent about the increasing negativity on this forum. Recently, particularly with the multiple issues surrounding the EC700, Mercedes interfaces and the perennial chestnuts of water level measurements and Whale fillers there has been a huge amount of carping. Some folk refer to the volume of complaints made here as hard evidence of A/S inadequacy. I have some sympathy with that view but, human nature being what it is, we WILL hear far more from those experiencing faults than from those without. And, particularly with the Whale filler, those who manage it successfully are consistently shouted down by the critics.

It would be great if we could return to the helpful constructive forum that existed when I joined in 2012  and is  the  reason that i continue to contribute, hopefully in a positve rather than destructive manner.

What really surprises me is I am not surprised ! The same issues have been surfacing for years across all models. Incorrectly fitted appliances, waste pipes that fall apart soaking interiors,  poorly constructed furniture, peeling foils on doors etc. Nowadays where forums and social media such as face/ time whatever it's called are so popular  it would seem that A/s dont employ anyone who occasionally reads comments and picks up on issues that affect quality and ultimately future sales. When most companies now see this as an important tool and actively monitor forums to pick up and act on issues especially recurring ones to get satisfaction for customers and promote their  ' Brand'  It is not surprising when calling the factory to be told your issue is the first time they have ever heard of it when you know that is clearly not the case having just read that many have reported the same issues to them before you!

Kaspian, it is surely worse than that, A/S don't really need feedback via social media, though it might be a useful adjunct. Most of the issues mentioned and plenty of others are sorted out via warranty claims from dealers. They are directly traceable to a VIN/build number and surely the factory's computerised build records will tell them when and who fitted the relevant part. The warranty claims should be able to be analysed at the press of a key to tell them which parts fail most and from that they can develop training plans, improved techniques, different part sources, bulletins to dealers for issues to watch for and in dire situations, total recalls.

 If I was a manufacturer I would want all that and more and I would make sure it was high profile within  the business and in my marketing. That way you build a quality reputation and buyers appreciate it.